Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[drewandian]

I'm rewatching season 3 right now and watching Progeny (trying to anyway, kinda distracted....)....anyway...every time I watch this ep I literally yell at Elizabeth and tell her not to go and not to trust Niam. (yeah, I know she won't listen but I can hope, right?)

At least we get some good Sparky moments from Progeny and The Real World (and the other eps...)before she's cruelly taken from us....

[Southern Red]

I'm rewatching season 3 right now and watching Progeny (trying to anyway, kinda distracted....)....anyway...every time I watch this ep I literally yell at Elizabeth and tell her not to go and not to trust Niam. (yeah, I know she won't listen but I can hope, right?)

At least we get some good Sparky moments from Progeny and The Real World (and the other eps...)before she's cruelly taken from us....

See that's the whole thing about our ship. We got some really great stuff considering that we expected less than nothing. Yeah there was a time right around Seige 3 when we got our hopes waaaayyy up, but for whatever reason TPTB decided to ignore the groundswell of Sparky love and not develop the ship. In spite of that and even in spite of them actively working against our ship both in canon and in RL it still came through loud and clear on screen. We used to say the editors were on our side and I think that may be true because you can't watch the show without seeing the connection so somebody put it on screen and it was more than just Joe and Torri's little lingering looks and body language.

[drewandian]

See that's the whole thing about our ship. We got some really great stuff considering that we expected less than nothing. Yeah there was a time right around Seige 3 when we got our hopes waaaayyy up, but for whatever reason TPTB decided to ignore the groundswell of Sparky love and not develop the ship. In spite of that and even in spite of them actively working against our ship both in canon and in RL it still came through loud and clear on screen. We used to say the editors were on our side and I think that may be true because you can't watch the show without seeing the connection so somebody put it on screen and it was more than just Joe and Torri's little lingering looks and body language.

*nod* ITA....and I'm sorry...maybe I'm just too much of a hopeless romantic and all that but there are PLENTY of moments that I feel simply can't be interpreted as anything other than their relationship being more than 'just friends who work together'...like...John being able to push Niam off of Elizabeth all by himself (at least that what it looked like to me) when Ronon and Teyla together couldn't. The little "Are you all right?" moment after...stuff that's scripted and then was allowed to be portrayed a particular way...

I'm sorry...but it seems to me that no matter how much they all denied it, everyone seemed to be pulling for Sparky....

(sorry if I don't make much sense...I have a 3 yo shrieking at the top of his lungs every time something doesn't go right rather than using his words....too bad 9:20 am is too early for nap time.... )

[Southern Red]

*nod* ITA....and I'm sorry...maybe I'm just too much of a hopeless romantic and all that but there are PLENTY of moments that I feel simply can't be interpreted as anything other than their relationship being more than 'just friends who work together'...like...John being able to push Niam off of Elizabeth all by himself (at least that what it looked like to me) when Ronon and Teyla together couldn't. The little "Are you all right?" moment after...stuff that's scripted and then was allowed to be portrayed a particular way...

I'm sorry...but it seems to me that no matter how much they all denied it, everyone seemed to be pulling for Sparky....

(sorry if I don't make much sense...I have a 3 yo shrieking at the top of his lungs every time something doesn't go write rather than using his words....too bad 9:20 am is too early for nap time.... )

Stop saying you're sorry, when you're right you're right. And who says 9:20am is too early for nap? He acts up, it's his choice.

But yeah, ITA with you also. That's why the years when we were watching the show for the first time and having all those voices telling us Sparky did not exist, never would exist and was unthinkable were so frustrating. You begin to doubt your own sanity. If it hadn't been for my husband and son who kept telling me to relax I had nothing to worry about, I would have gone mad. I mean here we had two unemotional, non-shipper, SciFi fans who had watched every show and movie out there and knew the genre inside and out who said Sparky was too obvious not to be on purpose telling me that in the end John and Elizabeth would end up together. But the one factor that they didn't take into consideration was TPTB. Plus the way things turned out with Torri and the behind the scenes things that cannot be spoken concerning JF. Put all that together and in the end it worked out better than it might have and worse than it could have.

I'm still angry about some things but have made peace with the whole thing overall. As long as there's not a movie to mess it up, there's nothing else to worry about. Any books to be written are not going to be canon unless TPTB say so and even then only a very small fraction of viewers will ever read them so they can easily be ignored. Lalala.

[drewandian]

Stop saying you're sorry, when you're right you're right. And who says 9:20am is too early for nap? He acts up, it's his choice.

But yeah, ITA with you also. That's why the years when we were watching the show for the first time and having all those voices telling us Sparky did not exist, never would exist and was unthinkable were so frustrating. You begin to doubt your own sanity. If it hadn't been for my husband and son who kept telling me to relax I had nothing to worry about, I would have gone mad. I mean here we had two unemotional, non-shipper, SciFi fans who had watched every show and movie out there and knew the genre inside and out who said Sparky was too obvious not to be on purpose telling me that in the end John and Elizabeth would end up together. But the one factor that they didn't take into consideration was TPTB. Plus the way things turned out with Torri and the behind the scenes things that cannot be spoken concerning JF. Put all that together and in the end it worked out better than it might have and worse than it could have.

I'm still angry about some things but have made peace with the whole thing overall. As long as there's not a movie to mess it up, there's nothing else to worry about. Any books to be written are not going to be canon unless TPTB say so and even then only a very small fraction of viewers will ever read them so they can easily be ignored. Lalala.

Yep...I'm married to a non-shipper sci fi fan too...and he sees Sparky (which is, I think, why he'll actually read my Sparky fics {even the non-smutty ones})...and tbh, knowing how it all turns out in the end doesn't make it any less frustrating (or fun!) to watch...

(and I'll try to stop apologizing....)

[nephtys59]

That's why the years when we were watching the show for the first time and having all those voices telling us Sparky did not exist, never would exist and was unthinkable were so frustrating.

Well after the big disappointment I had in the past with the pairing Archer/T'Pol in Star Trek Enterprise, I learnt not to hope for anything when I watch shows where I ship for some pairing. I've learnt that TPTB never ever write the RIGHT relationships but always disappoint me. So be it ... they cannot change what's in my mind and fantasy, this is all MINE and I can do what I want with pictures, videos and fanfics.

I mean here we had two unemotional, non-shipper, SciFi fans who had watched every show and movie out there and knew the genre inside and out who said Sparky was too obvious not to be on purpose telling me that in the end John and Elizabeth would end up together.

I've seen a lot non-shipper people noticing Sparky but obviously TPTB are so arrogant they cannot give us what we want. Maybe if there was a woman writing episodes, things would be different. Or maybe if there was writers as the ones who wrote relationships Aeryn/John in Farscape or Mal/Inara in Firefly, thing would be very different. Pity!

Plus the way things turned out with Torri and the behind the scenes things that cannot be spoken concerning JF.

I knew that Torri wanted more character development because she was stalling and she was right. There were dozens of possibilities to bring her back after Lifeline and give her character a new meaning, but instead they fired her.
I didn't know there were problems with JF behind the scenes, do you know which kind of issues they had?

I'm still angry about some things but have made peace with the whole thing overall. As long as there's not a movie to mess it up, there's nothing else to worry about.

I heard about the movie Stargate Extinction but seems not filming yet. Let's hope they don't mess with Sheppard and put him in some silly relationship with Teyla or Larrin

I know that this message will appear late and it's a little frustrating not to participate actively in discussions, but I think it's just a matter of time and patience and I'll be out of this "probie" status ... I have a signature banner ready!

[Southern Red]

Yep...I'm married to a non-shipper sci fi fan too...and he sees Sparky (which is, I think, why he'll actually read my Sparky fics {even the non-smutty ones})...and tbh, knowing how it all turns out in the end doesn't make it any less frustrating (or fun!) to watch...

(and I'll try to stop apologizing....)

I've let my hubby read some of my fics but not the smutty ones. OMG!

Actually, I couldn't have resisted spoilers in a million years but I wish I had watched it spoiler free. I find shows like Bones and Castle are just delightful to me right now and I don't want to know a thing about them.

I think it all comes down to making peace within your own mind about how it turned out. Obviously, those of us who are still here have done that to some degree but most Sparky shippers couldn't handle the frustration and left. The number of Sparkies on LJ is just amazing but most of them also have other fandoms. I'll bet if you ask them though, Sparky will always be #1 in their hearts.

Bones Spoilage:

Spoiler:

This week's homage to X Files was just so full of love. Maybe someone will do that for Sparky someday. Wishful thinking I know.

[drewandian]

I've let my hubby read some of my fics but not the smutty ones. OMG!

Actually, I couldn't have resisted spoilers in a million years but I wish I had watched it spoiler free. I find shows like Bones and Castle are just delightful to me right now and I don't want to know a thing about them.

I think it all comes down to making peace within your own mind about how it turned out. Obviously, those of us who are still here have done that to some degree but most Sparky shippers couldn't handle the frustration and left. The number of Sparkies on LJ is just amazing but most of them also have other fandoms. I'll bet if you ask them though, Sparky will always be #1 in their hearts.

Bones Spoilage:

Spoiler:

This week's homage to X Files was just so full of love. Maybe someone will do that for Sparky someday. Wishful thinking I know.

hee hee why not let him read the smutty ones? It could have . . . interesting . . . results!

Yeah...I figure it is what it is...I think it would have totally ticked me off if I'd watched from the start and kept hearing all the denial from TPTW about the ship but luckily I can just ignore it all and live in my own happy Sparky little world.

I'm going to watch The Real World and Common Ground again later with my Sparky glasses firmly on and then blog about it...I find the two eps being back to back kinda interesting...

I've seen a few eps of Bones here and there...I really need to start watching it regularly (it's on a channel I actually get!)

[Probie]

No we're not crazy. All my family sees Sparky. My sister asked me if John was sad when his girlfriend (Elizabeth) was "killed". She only watch the first season and I found this question funny.

Question: I read on a LJ (don't ask me which one because I don't remember) that Joe said he would have like to see something between his character and Elizabeth. I understand nothing. I thought he prefered Sheyla. I'm lost.lol

[pkprd869]

No we're not crazy. All my family sees Sparky. My sister asked me if John was sad when his girlfriend (Elizabeth) was "killed". She only watch the first season and I found this question funny.

Question: I read on a LJ (don't ask me which one because I don't remember) that Joe said he would have like to see something between his character and Elizabeth. I understand nothing. I thought he prefered Sheyla. I'm lost.lol

Well Homie, back in the fraternity days some guys would randomly stop by while we were watching Atlantis and say, "How long have those two [Shep and Lizzie] been *beep*ing?"

From the clips I've seen of Mr. Flannigan and the ships, he just tries to be nice and acknowledge both would've been possible.

And I completed story notes for a longer fic called Heaven's Rage last night. I think I'll post it here as a serial (e.g. Great Expectations) because I doubt I can put it on command dynamics.

ETA: I dug around for the preview I post here earlier. Check the spoiler for another look see.

Spoiler:

Preview piece: The Best of Times

John Sheppard stood on the balcony outside of Elizabeth’s office looking into the night sky. The twinkle of the stars and soft glow from the moon reflecting over the ocean brought a feeling of tranquility. John let his mind drift to Ferris Wheels and college football. He heard footsteps approaching and knew immediately who was joining him.

“Off in the wild blue yonder I see,” Elizabeth Weir joined John on the balcony.

“Yeah, something like that,” John replied offering a small smile.

“I never thought I would see this place again,” Elizabeth took a deep breath letting the smell of the ocean ease her mind.

“I thought I would never see you again,” John could not stop the seriousness in his voice.

“Oberoth and the Asurans made me do some terrible things,” Elizabeth looked over the balcony to hide her shame.

“Hey, you can’t be held responsible. You fought back and won. You’re here now and that’s all I care about,” John placed a comforting hand on Elizabeth’s shoulder.

“All the people I hurt and the destruction I caused. I even tortured my friends. Rodney can’t even look at me without that scared puppy face,” Elizabeth clasped John’s hand to help fight back tears.

“Ronon and Teyla, they understand. And the ‘scared puppy face’ is kind of... funny,” John hoped his small joke would lighten the mood.

“It is cute,” Elizabeth appreciated John’s trying to cheer her up and smiled.

“I never thought I would ever hear a beautiful woman call McKay cute,” John mused.

“Thanks,” Elizabeth released John’s hand.

“Yeah anytime,” John answered.

“John, I’m actually pretty scared,” Elizabeth became serious again.

“Of what?” John asked.

“Where do I go from here? I doubt the IOA will let me stay. And I have no idea what I will do back on Earth,” Elizabeth pondered out loud.

“You never know. Woolsey isn’t really that bad of a guy. Kind of uptight, but he still has a sense of honor and loyalty,” John replied.

“Good thing you didn’t smack him the head then,” Elizabeth teased.

“Yeah, I guess you’re right,” John laughed recalling when he first met Woolsey.

“Honestly I don’t want to be in charge here anymore. I’m surprised I didn’t lose all my hair over that job,” Elizabeth adjusted herself so she had a leg on the lower railing.

“Does that mean you don’t want to stay?” John’s face contorted into a look of hurt.

“No, I want to stay. Maybe lead a team to negotiate trade and diplomatic relations,” Elizabeth suggested.

“Oh,” John looked down embarrassed.

“What?” Elizabeth tilted her head and smiled.

“It’s just... I thought you were gonna leave me again,” John shrugged.

“Leave you?” Elizabeth questioned.

“Well, I mean the city,” John thought he could feel himself blushing.

“John,” Elizabeth put her hand on his cheek, “I’ll be here waiting.”

“What?”

“I’ll be here on our balcony. Just come here and you’ll find me.”

“Really?”

“I promise.”

John and Elizabeth exchanged smiles and returned to admiring the night sky. They both felt at ease knowing they would have each to lean on. Neither John nor Elizabeth cared about the future. Both were content to share the moment. Elizabeth let her hand slip into John’s. John simply gave Elizabeth’s hand a gentle squeeze of reassurance.

“I better get to bed,” Elizabeth broke the hand hold.

“Wait,” John captured her hand again.

“Yes,” Elizabeth titled her head and smiled.

“Stay a bit longer, please,” John tried not to sound like he was begging.

“Sure,” Elizabeth rejoined John on the balcony.

“These are the best of times,” John spoke but kept his gaze over the ocean.

“Why?” Elizabeth asked.

“I’m alone with you,” John turned his eyes to Elizabeth.

As their eyes met, John and Elizabeth were no longer sure they could read each other. Support, trust, and caring were still in their eyes, but John and Elizabeth saw something else mix into their moment. John and Elizabeth finally realized what this new feeling was and they wondered whether it was new or always there. Still searching, John and Elizabeth felt their bodies coming closer.

“The best of times,” Elizabeth repeated as she could feel John’s hands run through her hair and finally their lips met.

[Erin87]

Well after the big disappointment I had in the past with the pairing Archer/T'Pol in Star Trek Enterprise, I learnt not to hope for anything when I watch shows where I ship for some pairing. I've learnt that TPTB never ever write the RIGHT relationships but always disappoint me. So be it ... they cannot change what's in my mind and fantasy, this is all MINE and I can do what I want with pictures, videos and fanfics.

I've seen a lot non-shipper people noticing Sparky but obviously TPTB are so arrogant they cannot give us what we want. Maybe if there was a woman writing episodes, things would be different. Or maybe if there was writers as the ones who wrote relationships Aeryn/John in Farscape or Mal/Inara in Firefly, thing would be very different. Pity!

I knew that Torri wanted more character development because she was stalling and she was right. There were dozens of possibilities to bring her back after Lifeline and give her character a new meaning, but instead they fired her.
I didn't know there were problems with JF behind the scenes, do you know which kind of issues they had?

I heard about the movie Stargate Extinction but seems not filming yet. Let's hope they don't mess with Sheppard and put him in some silly relationship with Teyla or Larrin

I know that this message will appear late and it's a little frustrating not to participate actively in discussions, but I think it's just a matter of time and patience and I'll be out of this "probie" status ... I have a signature banner ready!

Yup! No matter what they say or do, they can never take our Sparky away from us. *waves banner*

I've considered for a while now that the lack of women writers on the show was at least part of the problem. I think if they'd had that then the whole relationships-between-characters part of the show would have been a lot better.

[Erin87]

Well Homie, back in the fraternity days some guys would randomly stop by while we were watching Atlantis and say, "How long have those two [Shep and Lizzie] been *beep*ing?"

From the clips I've seen of Mr. Flannigan and the ships, he just tries to be nice and acknowledge both would've been possible.

And I completed story notes for a longer fic called Heaven's Rage last night. I think I'll post it here as a serial (e.g. Great Expectations) because I doubt I can put it on command dynamics.

ETA: I dug around for the preview I post here earlier. Check the spoiler for another look see.

Spoiler:

Preview piece: The Best of Times
<snip for space>

Oh, I love that! How did I miss it earlier?

[nephtys59]

ETA: I dug around for the preview I post here earlier. Check the spoiler for another look see.

Spoiler:

Preview piece: The Best of Times

John Sheppard stood on the balcony outside of Elizabeth’s office looking into the night sky. The twinkle of the stars and soft glow from the moon reflecting over the ocean brought a feeling of tranquility. John let his mind drift to Ferris Wheels and college football. He heard footsteps approaching and knew immediately who was joining him.

“Off in the wild blue yonder I see,” Elizabeth Weir joined John on the balcony.

“Yeah, something like that,” John replied offering a small smile.

“I never thought I would see this place again,” Elizabeth took a deep breath letting the smell of the ocean ease her mind.

“I thought I would never see you again,” John could not stop the seriousness in his voice.

“Oberoth and the Asurans made me do some terrible things,” Elizabeth looked over the balcony to hide her shame.

“Hey, you can’t be held responsible. You fought back and won. You’re here now and that’s all I care about,” John placed a comforting hand on Elizabeth’s shoulder.

“All the people I hurt and the destruction I caused. I even tortured my friends. Rodney can’t even look at me without that scared puppy face,” Elizabeth clasped John’s hand to help fight back tears.

“Ronon and Teyla, they understand. And the ‘scared puppy face’ is kind of... funny,” John hoped his small joke would lighten the mood.

“It is cute,” Elizabeth appreciated John’s trying to cheer her up and smiled.

“I never thought I would ever hear a beautiful woman call McKay cute,” John mused.

“Thanks,” Elizabeth released John’s hand.

“Yeah anytime,” John answered.

“John, I’m actually pretty scared,” Elizabeth became serious again.

“Of what?” John asked.

“Where do I go from here? I doubt the IOA will let me stay. And I have no idea what I will do back on Earth,” Elizabeth pondered out loud.

“You never know. Woolsey isn’t really that bad of a guy. Kind of uptight, but he still has a sense of honor and loyalty,” John replied.

“Good thing you didn’t smack him the head then,” Elizabeth teased.

“Yeah, I guess you’re right,” John laughed recalling when he first met Woolsey.

“Honestly I don’t want to be in charge here anymore. I’m surprised I didn’t lose all my hair over that job,” Elizabeth adjusted herself so she had a leg on the lower railing.

“Does that mean you don’t want to stay?” John’s face contorted into a look of hurt.

“No, I want to stay. Maybe lead a team to negotiate trade and diplomatic relations,” Elizabeth suggested.

“Oh,” John looked down embarrassed.

“What?” Elizabeth tilted her head and smiled.

“It’s just... I thought you were gonna leave me again,” John shrugged.

“Leave you?” Elizabeth questioned.

“Well, I mean the city,” John thought he could feel himself blushing.

“John,” Elizabeth put her hand on his cheek, “I’ll be here waiting.”

“What?”

“I’ll be here on our balcony. Just come here and you’ll find me.”

“Really?”

“I promise.”

John and Elizabeth exchanged smiles and returned to admiring the night sky. They both felt at ease knowing they would have each to lean on. Neither John nor Elizabeth cared about the future. Both were content to share the moment. Elizabeth let her hand slip into John’s. John simply gave Elizabeth’s hand a gentle squeeze of reassurance.

“I better get to bed,” Elizabeth broke the hand hold.

“Wait,” John captured her hand again.

“Yes,” Elizabeth titled her head and smiled.

“Stay a bit longer, please,” John tried not to sound like he was begging.

“Sure,” Elizabeth rejoined John on the balcony.

“These are the best of times,” John spoke but kept his gaze over the ocean.

“Why?” Elizabeth asked.

“I’m alone with you,” John turned his eyes to Elizabeth.

As their eyes met, John and Elizabeth were no longer sure they could read each other. Support, trust, and caring were still in their eyes, but John and Elizabeth saw something else mix into their moment. John and Elizabeth finally realized what this new feeling was and they wondered whether it was new or always there. Still searching, John and Elizabeth felt their bodies coming closer.

“The best of times,” Elizabeth repeated as she could feel John’s hands run through her hair and finally their lips met.

Wow, I love that!!! Want more

[pkprd869]

nephtys59 When news first came out about Miss Tori becoming a recurring star, in S4 I thought, "Alright, Ms. Tapping has a year left of her contract and they want to use her for the show. That's cool. Maybe they'll do something cool like, 'Carter uses her vast knowledge of replicators to develop new weapons and lead a large offensive against them.' Maybe find Lizzie along the way and she helps them by FUBAR-ing the replicator network. Then in S5 her character has deal with being part human part replicator. The IOA wants her iced, the SGC wants to use her to build weapons, and the team just wants their friend back. Maybe breakout Lizzie's diplomatic skills and lead a diplomatic team (I believe the SGC had those) and Shep's team can escort them in few eps, big explosions, sparky eyesex, and general good times had by all."

I don't know if a woman writing would've made a huge difference. In broad generalities, yes a woman could have done a better job with a relationship. I think timing of confirming our ship would have to come at the end of the show. I would imagine the CINC(Commander in Chief)-Homeworld Security (I believe it's O'Neill) is still responsible for Atlantis. So Lizzie, despite being a civilian, would still be under the UCMJ. I believe the UCMJ applies fraternization to officer/enlisted and officer/officer within the immediate chain of command. I think one or two degrees of separation are all that are required. At least that's how I see it. I could be wrong.

From the little tid-bits that are out there, I think Joe didn't like the way some characters (and by extension the actors) were being treated. I can't quote the source, (maybe someone can help me) but he said if he would've found out about Miss Tori getting the can, he would've fought it. It seems like the TPTB played it close to the vest so they wouldn't have to deal with Joe.

[Eri13]

My thoughts:
-The voice of David Hewlett is heartbreaking
-The face of Joe Flanigan is heartbreaking.
-It's nice to see Torri.
-This scene is wonderful for our ship (some McWeir can be happy too)
-My last thought: WRITERS ARE STUPID!!!!!!! Why they don't keep her?

That was pretty much my reaction too, although it went more like...

- OMG LOOKIT JOHN'S FACE!
- Is he crying again?
- Look at how much he misses her!
- Torri's rocking this scene
- Rodney looks really sad too.
- I miss WEIR!

Epiphany has a few great Sparky moments, especially at the end. And I love the way she insists on going along to rescue him. Also, in hindsight, you will notice that he never again doubts she will send rescue. In fact, in I believe it's The Ark he mentions to Ronon that he knows she will send someone for them. Also in CG he tells Todd that he has a life to go back to.

John has always been my favorite but of course losing Elizabeth was a huge blow. I hated the way he was treated in S5 and it's hard to watch his part being diminished the way it was. But he has some great scenes with Woolsey, Ronon and Rodney. I even thought John had good chemistry with Keller of a non-romantic sort and of course Carson. Aside from that the Woolsey parts are sometimes fun and the Teyla/Kanaan parts of Broken Ties are lovely. I wish they had done more with that little family but I guess the writers thought they had said all they needed to say.

It is difficult to remember some of the eps of S5 at all which in my mind distinguishes it from the other seasons. S4 was frustrating and annoying at times but at least memorable. I get Infection, Identity, Tracker, and Outsiders all mixed up and barely remember the plots of some others. FC/TLT were enjoyable at the time but the lack of John made me not want to rewatch them.

And I've given up watching any of them live. I just can't take the commercials. If I want to watch one I just pop in a DVD.

Good question. I was watching John's face for his reaction and Joe Flanigan did not disappoint me. He looked like you had thrown a bucket of cold water in his face and the way he had trouble talking brought a lump to my throat. Just wonderful acting and spoke volumes without many words. Then when I rewatched it I noticed that Rodney looked a little stunned also and he broke my heart too. They really cared about her.

Yeah, the Sparky jumped out at me when I watched Epiphany last night. Also how cute Elizabeth is when she's nerdy.

I love being reminded of things--and one of those sequences was the one you mention, when she insists on going--I love how Rodney sorta tries to be protective and suggests it's dangerous and she should stay, and she gives him the 'don't ARGUE with me' tone.




He's kinda like 'FINE'.

Truthfully, her going was extremely stupid on her part. There is no guarantee she'll be able to get back and though it may only be a day on the part of Atlantis to her hundred years in the Sanctuary, it still means Atlantis is out their leader.

But she has some moments of stupidity where John in concerned. Condemned comes to mind, too, as does her going in to talk to mutated John in Conversion.

So yeah, your insistence on Sparky being there even when it was denied is not crazy. I mean, look at their interactions at the end of Epiphany. That she goes right to him after the monster attacks; That little flirty thing she does when she comments on his beard; how he gets all bashful and embarrassed when she makes the beard remark. He gets very sheepish when it's Elizabeth who says stuff like that.

And on the back end--come on. Why do you write Elizabeth like that in an episode like this? Why have your leader go through a potentially dangerous portal just for one guy? And there's also the moment when she comes through the doorway and Rodney pats the dirt next to him, and she gives him this "I don't think so" look and sits across the cave from him? Then you have her run right up to John when the rest of her group is sprawled across the grass? All that stuff ends up adding up to implications. But honestly, from the beginning that rapport was there, so you couldn't take it away as you got deeper in to the series. Who best to tease him on his beard--well, Elizabeth of course. Rodney wouldn't, it would be a little weird for Ronon, and while Teyla could be that cheeky it would be more canon coming from Elizabeth because it's more HER personality where John is concerned. So...

It's all over the place through every season, in most every episode. It's no wonder people became such strong shippers. And then adding that up with everything else, well, you're looking at something that is undeniably there. This ship is so strange in many ways--a denied ship that has an incredible following and support from people. There are very few like it, where the evidence on-screen seems to overcome all other objections.

Well Homie, back in the fraternity days some guys would randomly stop by while we were watching Atlantis and say, "How long have those two [Shep and Lizzie] been *beep*ing?"

From the clips I've seen of Mr. Flannigan and the ships, he just tries to be nice and acknowledge both would've been possible.

And I completed story notes for a longer fic called Heaven's Rage last night. I think I'll post it here as a serial (e.g. Great Expectations) because I doubt I can put it on command dynamics.

ETA: I dug around for the preview I post here earlier. Check the spoiler for another look see.

Spoiler:

Preview piece: The Best of Times

John Sheppard stood on the balcony outside of Elizabeth’s office looking into the night sky. The twinkle of the stars and soft glow from the moon reflecting over the ocean brought a feeling of tranquility. John let his mind drift to Ferris Wheels and college football. He heard footsteps approaching and knew immediately who was joining him.

“Off in the wild blue yonder I see,” Elizabeth Weir joined John on the balcony.

“Yeah, something like that,” John replied offering a small smile.

“I never thought I would see this place again,” Elizabeth took a deep breath letting the smell of the ocean ease her mind.

“I thought I would never see you again,” John could not stop the seriousness in his voice.

“Oberoth and the Asurans made me do some terrible things,” Elizabeth looked over the balcony to hide her shame.

“Hey, you can’t be held responsible. You fought back and won. You’re here now and that’s all I care about,” John placed a comforting hand on Elizabeth’s shoulder.

“All the people I hurt and the destruction I caused. I even tortured my friends. Rodney can’t even look at me without that scared puppy face,” Elizabeth clasped John’s hand to help fight back tears.

“Ronon and Teyla, they understand. And the ‘scared puppy face’ is kind of... funny,” John hoped his small joke would lighten the mood.

“It is cute,” Elizabeth appreciated John’s trying to cheer her up and smiled.

“I never thought I would ever hear a beautiful woman call McKay cute,” John mused.

“Thanks,” Elizabeth released John’s hand.

“Yeah anytime,” John answered.

“John, I’m actually pretty scared,” Elizabeth became serious again.

“Of what?” John asked.

“Where do I go from here? I doubt the IOA will let me stay. And I have no idea what I will do back on Earth,” Elizabeth pondered out loud.

“You never know. Woolsey isn’t really that bad of a guy. Kind of uptight, but he still has a sense of honor and loyalty,” John replied.

“Good thing you didn’t smack him the head then,” Elizabeth teased.

“Yeah, I guess you’re right,” John laughed recalling when he first met Woolsey.

“Honestly I don’t want to be in charge here anymore. I’m surprised I didn’t lose all my hair over that job,” Elizabeth adjusted herself so she had a leg on the lower railing.

“Does that mean you don’t want to stay?” John’s face contorted into a look of hurt.

“No, I want to stay. Maybe lead a team to negotiate trade and diplomatic relations,” Elizabeth suggested.

“Oh,” John looked down embarrassed.

“What?” Elizabeth tilted her head and smiled.

“It’s just... I thought you were gonna leave me again,” John shrugged.

“Leave you?” Elizabeth questioned.

“Well, I mean the city,” John thought he could feel himself blushing.

“John,” Elizabeth put her hand on his cheek, “I’ll be here waiting.”

“What?”

“I’ll be here on our balcony. Just come here and you’ll find me.”

“Really?”

“I promise.”

John and Elizabeth exchanged smiles and returned to admiring the night sky. They both felt at ease knowing they would have each to lean on. Neither John nor Elizabeth cared about the future. Both were content to share the moment. Elizabeth let her hand slip into John’s. John simply gave Elizabeth’s hand a gentle squeeze of reassurance.

“I better get to bed,” Elizabeth broke the hand hold.

“Wait,” John captured her hand again.

“Yes,” Elizabeth titled her head and smiled.

“Stay a bit longer, please,” John tried not to sound like he was begging.

“Sure,” Elizabeth rejoined John on the balcony.

“These are the best of times,” John spoke but kept his gaze over the ocean.

“Why?” Elizabeth asked.

“I’m alone with you,” John turned his eyes to Elizabeth.

As their eyes met, John and Elizabeth were no longer sure they could read each other. Support, trust, and caring were still in their eyes, but John and Elizabeth saw something else mix into their moment. John and Elizabeth finally realized what this new feeling was and they wondered whether it was new or always there. Still searching, John and Elizabeth felt their bodies coming closer.

“The best of times,” Elizabeth repeated as she could feel John’s hands run through her hair and finally their lips met.

*LOL* at the boys perspective of the Sparky.

Great fic! EEEK!