The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

The problem with your request is that you demand effective as in "Zero illegals" when the wall itself can not and will not meet that requirement. So maybe something as effective as a wall, if not more so? Yeah, a virtual wall. It's cheaper, effective, allows for flexibility and cooperation on both sides of the border. helping secure Mexico's southern border with the same method would be infinitely more effective and cheaper. It's a solution for a real problem that doesn't involve evoking "scary brown people" arguments. This in turn allows for friendlier relations with southern neighbors which means increased cooperation (more flies with honey than vinegar applies here) on multiple different fronts that are of mutual interest to well...everyone.



I do hope you aren't suggesting the wholesale slaughter of unarmed men, women, and children for the crime of crossing a border to get a job...



But a wall wouldn't do this. It wouldn't do anything absolutely. You demand something much more effective than a wall in order to accept it while categorically slapping down anything that will be just as effective as the wall.




I tire of your constant illogical strawman. At a certain point a straw man stops being a result of faulty understanding of another person's POV and becomes an insult through the act of blatantly ignoring said person's POV and crass false accusations with the intent to defame. It's insulting. How dare you accuse me of not caring about my country? What even gives you that right? The nerve you must have.

Ok, then what is your idea? Remember the goals. Zero tolerance; whatever you select must be as good or better than a wall.

Yes, I know, a wall by itself won't be 100% effective. But it will slow them down enough so border agents can apprehend and deport them.

And I didn't accuse you of not caring. Your idea of the right thing to do may include an open border. We do have different opinions.

[aretood2]

Ok, then what is your idea? Remember the goals. Zero tolerance; whatever you select must be as good or better than a wall.

I already told you, a virtual wall.

Yes, I know, a wall by itself won't be 100% effective. But it will slow them down enough so border agents can apprehend and deport them.

Hence, a virtual wall.

And I didn't accuse you of not caring. Your idea of the right thing to do may include an open border. We do have different opinions.

And yet you still persist with the same old strawman. You know this is exactly what Jesus meant when he said "while hearing they do not hear" and "while seeing they do not see". You don't "hear" or rather see when everyone here says that they aren't for open borders, yet you still accuse all of being just that. You hear the arguments but you don't hear them. You see them written before you in plain english yet you don't see them. You are blind and deaf to all but your own dogmatic views.

[Annoyed]

I already told you, a virtual wall.



Hence, a virtual wall.


And yet you still persist with the same old strawman. You know this is exactly what Jesus meant when he said "while hearing they do not hear" and "while seeing they do not see". You don't "hear" or rather see when everyone here says that they aren't for open borders, yet you still accuse all of being just that. You hear the arguments but you don't hear them. You see them written before you in plain english yet you don't see them. You are blind and deaf to all but your own dogmatic views.

The generic term "virtual wall" doesn't tell me much. Exactly how do you propose to block entry outside of official ports of entry? Armed guards every 20 feet? A policy that says "thou shall not enter", with no enforcement mechanism? Aerial surveillance and defense?

[aretood2]

The generic term "virtual wall" doesn't tell me much. Exactly how do you propose to block entry outside of official ports of entry? Armed guards every 20 feet? A policy that says "thou shall not enter", with no enforcement mechanism? Aerial surveillance and defense?

It's a combination of sensors, strategically placed metal fencing and walls, patrols, drones, other tech and stations that make use of the terrain and rely on intelligence to detect and intercept illegal and potential illegal aliens. It gets an added bonus if this is done with cooperation with Mexico.

A wall is nothing more than a political statement and would be just as effective as this but more expensive fiscally and diplomatically.

[Annoyed]

It's a combination of sensors, strategically placed metal fencing and walls, patrols, drones, other tech and stations that make use of the terrain and rely on intelligence to detect and intercept illegal and potential illegal aliens. It gets an added bonus if this is done with cooperation with Mexico.

A wall is nothing more than a political statement and would be just as effective as this but more expensive fiscally and diplomatically.

Detection is fine. What is the actual mechanism for preventing entry?

[Gatefan1976]

Detection is fine. What is the actual mechanism for preventing entry?

A wall will not block entry, it can only delay it at best.
Your stated goal is impossible.

[jelgate]

And not very well given how the majority of immigrants enter illegally

[aretood2]

Detection is fine. What is the actual mechanism for preventing entry?

Ideally? Mexico. But practically? A law enforcement agency designed to patrol the border and apprehend illegal aliens and dissuade the illegal crossing of the border....and maybe more immigration judges and courts?

[Annoyed]

Ideally? Mexico. But practically? A law enforcement agency designed to patrol the border and apprehend illegal aliens and dissuade the illegal crossing of the border....and maybe more immigration judges and courts?

And what do you do with the apprehended? Send 'em back, no bs, or do we just continue as we we have?

Remember, one of the requirements of my question is effectiveness. Zero tolerance. How do you achieve that goal? You didn't say what you want to do with them upon apprehension.

[Gatefan1976]

And what do you do with the apprehended? Send 'em back, no bs, or do we just continue as we we have?

Remember, one of the requirements of my question is effectiveness. Zero tolerance. How do you achieve that goal? You didn't say what you want to do with them upon apprehension.

Guess what, the US is walking into a dark ally with money in it's hand.
Or wearing a skirt.
You are asking for it.

[mad_gater]

Guess what, the US is walking into a dark ally with money in it's hand.
Or wearing a skirt.
You are asking for it.

what money? all the US has is $20 trillion in IOU's

[SGalisa]

Interrupting for a brief comment on ----
President Trump made a speech yesterday. It's gone nowhere, at the moment, so it still seems.
(Articles contain videos.)

"Trump offers 'compromise' to end government shutdown"
BBC News, 20 January 2019

. . .
What was in Mr Trump's address?

The president started by saying the US had a proud history of welcoming migrants, but that the system had been "badly broken for a very long time".

He said he was "here to break the logjam and provide Congress with a path forward to end the government shutdown".

He again spelled out his reasons for building the wall and stressed it was not a continuous structure, just one of steel barriers in high-priority areas. But the demand for $5.7bn to fund it remains.
. . .
What have Congressional leaders said?

The Democrats responded even before the speech went out.

Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called the concessions "a non-starter" and "a compilation of several previously rejected initiatives, each of which is unacceptable and in total do not represent a good faith effort to restore certainty to people's lives".

"What we didn't hear from the President was any sympathy for the federal workers who face so much uncertainty because of the chaos of the #TrumpShutdown," Mrs Pelosi tweeted.
. . .

Well, she's part of the whole, bigger problem. Nancy Pelosi says Yay or NAY, and so far it's all NAY on the DEM side in "working with" President Trump's proposals. Pelosi and Schumer can blame Trump for holding Federal workers "hostage" from being paid, but these 2 DEMs are also holding those same folks hostage, as well. And when this whole scenario lingers on and on, eventually, the rest of America will feel its impact, too. Domino effect on agriculture ---thus, food and general supplies.. already posted video on that one.. no one is listening from TPTB in the gov't control areas. Jeepers! The USA will become like Venuzuela without "socialism" being enforced by DEMs, in less than 2 years, just from current event politics!

So, Trump tossed the reopening of the gov't negotiations back into the DEMs territory, and the DEMs still refuse to "reopen" the gov't. Nah... they'd rather peel it apart... at the expense and "livelihoods" of American families and workers trying to make ends meet.

The Democrats simply DO NOT want to work with President Trump.
They want Trump OUT of office, OUT of sight, not in *any* form of (executive) power control, and that is ALL.

It seems that (some of) the Dems are sooooooo stuck up in their arrogant, tizzy snit fits, that they will allow the USA to fall apart at the expense of Trump's sheer presence as POTUS. The rest of the DEMs just go along for the (bully) ride.

Meantime, local communities are beginning to pitch in to help those NOT getting paid, who really NEED food and home care supplies, sort of like supporting the local food banks and pantries, but for those on the Federal payroll who aren't as wealthy and able to live off of stashed savings like Nancy Pelosi and Chucky Schumer, and their like ilk.

So, is this whole "shut-down" issue just a backdrop for a deeper goal from the DEMs?
There are rumors that the DEMs really want to discard the Constitution and start with a new gov't system. Get in DEM control only to hand everything over to a more sinister PTB (TPTB).
(hmmmm. NWO? or Sharia Law...? (look at Michigan and Minnesota for the no-go zones and sharia enforcement wannabees there) ...or is this about something totally Communistic, but disguised at the onset as "socialism")..?

So, if Trump doesn't budge out of the DEMs way and goes full "Dictator" on them... well, it's okay when the DEMs go full Dictator on the whole USA so they can get their way at everything (greedy little imps, they are), but not okay if/when an opposing political party does it. And if that day ever happens, the DEMs just might swing the door open to let their "global" bosses take over and run the whole show/planet, so the DEMs can *party-hardy* at our TAX payer expense, and watch the rest of us waste away into oblivion. Why should those at the top worry..? They've got their hidden stashes with multi-million dollar "survival" shelters to survive WWIII and then some...


Personally, I don't like the "war games" going on in our USA politics. But I'd rather see Trump as Dictator and see peace with Russia, and perhaps China, etc., than have the war-mongering DEMs toss us into war against Russia, so the USA will end up obliterated one way or another. Former President Obama & company were heading us into that general war zone direction with Russia... it was in the heartbeat of the news. Most folks who were following it, haven't gotten that nasty vibe impression (so far) with Trump as POTUS.

Pop-up kitchens help Federal workers not being paid...(video at link)

"US shutdown: Pop-up kitchens offer free food for federal workers"
BBC News, 19 Jan 2019

Pop-up kitchens are serving free food to unpaid federal workers as the US government shutdown drags on.

[Gatefan1976]

Interrupting for a brief comment on ----
President Trump made a speech yesterday. It's gone nowhere, at the moment, so it still seems.
(Articles contain videos.)



Well, she's part of the whole, bigger problem. Nancy Pelosi says Yay or NAY, and so far it's all NAY on the DEM side in "working with" President Trump's proposals. Pelosi and Schumer can blame Trump for holding Federal workers "hostage" from being paid, but these 2 DEMs are also holding those same folks hostage, as well. And when this whole scenario lingers on and on, eventually, the rest of America will feel its impact, too. Domino effect on agriculture ---thus, food and general supplies.. already posted video on that one.. no one is listening from TPTB in the gov't control areas. Jeepers! The USA will become like Venuzuela without "socialism" being enforced by DEMs, in less than 2 years, just from current event politics!

So, Trump tossed the reopening of the gov't negotiations back into the DEMs territory, and the DEMs still refuse to "reopen" the gov't. Nah... they'd rather peel it apart... at the expense and "livelihoods" of American families and workers trying to make ends meet.

The Democrats simply DO NOT want to work with President Trump.
They want Trump OUT of office, OUT of sight, not in *any* form of (executive) power control, and that is ALL.

It seems that (some of) the Dems are sooooooo stuck up in their arrogant, tizzy snit fits, that they will allow the USA to fall apart at the expense of Trump's sheer presence as POTUS. The rest of the DEMs just go along for the (bully) ride.

Meantime, local communities are beginning to pitch in to help those NOT getting paid, who really NEED food and home care supplies, sort of like supporting the local food banks and pantries, but for those on the Federal payroll who aren't as wealthy and able to live off of stashed savings like Nancy Pelosi and Chucky Schumer, and their like ilk.

So, is this whole "shut-down" issue just a backdrop for a deeper goal from the DEMs?
There are rumors that the DEMs really want to discard the Constitution and start with a new gov't system. Get in DEM control only to hand everything over to a more sinister PTB (TPTB).
(hmmmm. NWO? or Sharia Law...? (look at Michigan and Minnesota for the no-go zones and sharia enforcement wannabees there) ...or is this about something totally Communistic, but disguised at the onset as "socialism")..?

So, if Trump doesn't budge out of the DEMs way and goes full "Dictator" on them... well, it's okay when the DEMs go full Dictator on the whole USA so they can get their way at everything (greedy little imps, they are), but not okay if/when an opposing political party does it. And if that day ever happens, the DEMs just might swing the door open to let their "global" bosses take over and run the whole show/planet, so the DEMs can *party-hardy* at our TAX payer expense, and watch the rest of us waste away into oblivion. Why should those at the top worry..? They've got their hidden stashes with multi-million dollar "survival" shelters to survive WWIII and then some...


Personally, I don't like the "war games" going on in our USA politics. But I'd rather see Trump as Dictator and see peace with Russia, and perhaps China, etc., than have the war-mongering DEMs toss us into war against Russia, so the USA will end up obliterated one way or another. Former President Obama & company were heading us into that general war zone direction with Russia... it was in the heartbeat of the news. Most folks who were following it, haven't gotten that nasty vibe impression (so far) with Trump as POTUS.

Pop-up kitchens help Federal workers not being paid...(video at link)

Trump started this little **** storm, and he publicly owned it.
Get that through your thick skull.
The fact that you are willing to accept a dictatorial role from the POTUS, no matter the party means the US is already lost.

[Chaka-Z0]

The fact that you are willing to accept a dictatorial role from the POTUS, no matter the party means the US is already lost.

Those people (such as SG and Annoyed) are a minority in the country, and were only elevated to power due to a broken electoral system and Russian interference.

I wouldn't lose faith just yet GF. Hopefully the Trump regime will serve as a wake-up call for some Americans.

[Annoyed]

Interrupting for a brief comment on ----
President Trump made a speech yesterday. It's gone nowhere, at the moment, so it still seems.
(Articles contain videos.)



Well, she's part of the whole, bigger problem. Nancy Pelosi says Yay or NAY, and so far it's all NAY on the DEM side in "working with" President Trump's proposals. Pelosi and Schumer can blame Trump for holding Federal workers "hostage" from being paid, but these 2 DEMs are also holding those same folks hostage, as well. And when this whole scenario lingers on and on, eventually, the rest of America will feel its impact, too. Domino effect on agriculture ---thus, food and general supplies.. already posted video on that one.. no one is listening from TPTB in the gov't control areas. Jeepers! The USA will become like Venuzuela without "socialism" being enforced by DEMs, in less than 2 years, just from current event politics!

So, Trump tossed the reopening of the gov't negotiations back into the DEMs territory, and the DEMs still refuse to "reopen" the gov't. Nah... they'd rather peel it apart... at the expense and "livelihoods" of American families and workers trying to make ends meet.

The Democrats simply DO NOT want to work with President Trump.
They want Trump OUT of office, OUT of sight, not in *any* form of (executive) power control, and that is ALL.

It seems that (some of) the Dems are sooooooo stuck up in their arrogant, tizzy snit fits, that they will allow the USA to fall apart at the expense of Trump's sheer presence as POTUS. The rest of the DEMs just go along for the (bully) ride.

Meantime, local communities are beginning to pitch in to help those NOT getting paid, who really NEED food and home care supplies, sort of like supporting the local food banks and pantries, but for those on the Federal payroll who aren't as wealthy and able to live off of stashed savings like Nancy Pelosi and Chucky Schumer, and their like ilk.

So, is this whole "shut-down" issue just a backdrop for a deeper goal from the DEMs?
There are rumors that the DEMs really want to discard the Constitution and start with a new gov't system. Get in DEM control only to hand everything over to a more sinister PTB (TPTB).
(hmmmm. NWO? or Sharia Law...? (look at Michigan and Minnesota for the no-go zones and sharia enforcement wannabees there) ...or is this about something totally Communistic, but disguised at the onset as "socialism")..?

So, if Trump doesn't budge out of the DEMs way and goes full "Dictator" on them... well, it's okay when the DEMs go full Dictator on the whole USA so they can get their way at everything (greedy little imps, they are), but not okay if/when an opposing political party does it. And if that day ever happens, the DEMs just might swing the door open to let their "global" bosses take over and run the whole show/planet, so the DEMs can *party-hardy* at our TAX payer expense, and watch the rest of us waste away into oblivion. Why should those at the top worry..? They've got their hidden stashes with multi-million dollar "survival" shelters to survive WWIII and then some...


Personally, I don't like the "war games" going on in our USA politics. But I'd rather see Trump as Dictator and see peace with Russia, and perhaps China, etc., than have the war-mongering DEMs toss us into war against Russia, so the USA will end up obliterated one way or another. Former President Obama & company were heading us into that general war zone direction with Russia... it was in the heartbeat of the news. Most folks who were following it, haven't gotten that nasty vibe impression (so far) with Trump as POTUS.

Pop-up kitchens help Federal workers not being paid...(video at link)

And don't forget, H.R. 301, brought by a Republican member of the House, which would pay essential govt. employees who are forced to work, shutdown or not. Of course, the Dems want no part of it.

You're correct, the Dems do want to reform this country into a socialist paradise (a contradiction in terms by itself), just listen the incessant childish rantings of Ocasio-Cortez. That idiot has no idea how the world works, she is just like a 4 year old demanding whatever she wants and threatening to hold her breath till her parents relent. But she commands a great deal of attention with the Dems.

Actually, the Dems have a far more insidious strategy at work, which is why they will never agree to a wall, or anything else that effectively stops illegal immigration. In fact, as far as I can tell, the proposal they have is for more immigration judges, more facilities to process immigrants and such. They want to welcome them with open arms.

Their goal is this: They know that first generation immigrants overwhelmingly vote Democrat, at least partially because they are dependent upon social services, which Democrats are eager to provide. So, of course, they have "paths to citizenship" plans for all the illegals that are already here, and the millions yet to arrive whom they want to welcome in, which will allow them to vote.

See where this is going? They want to import a permanent guaranteed victory at the ballot box, because their ideas don't resonate with many US citizens.

They screwed up beyond belief in 2016, allowing Trump to win an election they could have very easily won, and they're gonna be paying for that mistake for at least a generation as Trump's judicial appointments begin to change the course of the courts.

They are trying to set themselves up for permanent Democratic (socialist) rule of the U.S.

Which is an excellent reason for Trump and the Republicans to stand their ground on this wall fight, no matter how long it takes. Or if needed, build the wall with the Military.