The Political Discussion Thread

[Coco Pops]

And ladies what a charmer?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...a7a_story.html

I'll bet they are all running to you when you call them dogs.

[Chaka-Z0]

The fear is not rational and logical when for instance immigrants are demonized as a lot of thieves and criminals meanwhile US citizens commit more crimes than these folks.

You want cheap prices, cheap food, cheap products, that's America right there and for that you need to outsource your production.

Wizards of Wall Street will always be present in another shape or form. As much as Trump like to bash them publicly, his actions, says otherwise. His view of the global trading system and policies is demented, and in the long run, will be a nuisance to your own economy. But people in general enjoy freebies and cookies, and do not see the big picture.

[Gatefan1976]

America, home of the cheap

[mad_gater]

The fear is not rational and logical when for instance immigrants are demonized as a lot of thieves and criminals meanwhile US citizens commit more crimes than these folks.

You want cheap prices, cheap food, cheap products, that's America right there and for that you need to outsource your production.

Wizards of Wall Street will always be present in another shape or form. As much as Trump like to bash them publicly, his actions, says otherwise. His view of the global trading system and policies is demented, and in the long run, will be a nuisance to your own economy. But people in general enjoy freebies and cookies, and do not see the big picture.

We managed just fine having reasonably priced goods and services back in the day when practically everything we used was made here in the USA and when it was built to last too...none of this "planned obsolescence" crap (for example for the longest time we owned a Kitchen Aid stand mixer that was made here in the USA and it lasted at least a good 40+ years before finally giving out, same with our old upright stand-alone freezer....lasted at least that long before the frost build-up got to be too much)

[Gatefan1976]

We managed just fine having reasonably priced goods and services back in the day when practically everything we used was made here in the USA and when it was built to last too...none of this "planned obsolescence" crap (for example for the longest time we owned a Kitchen Aid stand mixer that was made here in the USA and it lasted at least a good 40+ years before finally giving out, same with our old upright stand-alone freezer....lasted at least that long before the frost build-up got to be too much)

I had a microwave oven, made in China last 30 years, a washer made in Germany last 25 years, a vacuum made in the US last 15 years (and still going strong), A TV made in Taiwan last 40 years.
Planned obselecence is not a "country" thing, it's a corporate thing to get more money.

[Chaka-Z0]

We managed just fine having reasonably priced goods and services back in the day when practically everything we used was made here in the USA and when it was built to last too...none of this "planned obsolescence" crap (for example for the longest time we owned a Kitchen Aid stand mixer that was made here in the USA and it lasted at least a good 40+ years before finally giving out, same with our old upright stand-alone freezer....lasted at least that long before the frost build-up got to be too much)

All fair and good points, but the reason behind that you were ''managing just fine'' is not entirely related to the fact the products were made locally. Your generation, the baby boomers, was the generation with the most money available after expenses to spend on entertainment, products and such. This is an economic fact, one which most of the BB seem offended when I mention it when I keep hearing some of them whining that *in my time, we used to work for what we paid* crap.

[mad_gater]

All fair and good points, but the reason behind that you were ''managing just fine'' is not entirely related to the fact the products were made locally. Your generation, the baby boomers, was the generation with the most money available after expenses to spend on entertainment, products and such. This is an economic fact, one which most of the BB seem offended when I mention it when I keep hearing some of them whining that *in my time, we used to work for what we paid* crap.

Actually I'm no boomer....more of an "X-ennial" you could say....but working for your money instead of relying on goernment assistance if you're able-bodied is just as timeless a virtue now as it was back in my parents' and grandparents' day...as borne out by the fact that we have all these economic woes due to off-shore outsourcing and importing of foreign labor


the thing you don't get is WHY did our parents and grandparents have all that money (in my case we never had much money because while my dad was an engineer he was a mediocre one and was always one of the first to be let go when they needed to make labor cuts but I'm talking in general here)? They had more money to save BECAUSE everything or nearly everything we used back then was made here in the USA....which meant that the domestic manufacturing centers were employing a lot of people back in their day....they weren't just handed all that money on a silver salver....they had to work their backsides off for it

but I see too many people today clamoring for the government to be their nanny....that's not government's job.....government's only job is infrastructure upkeep, public defense and safety, national defense, and holding people accountable to a (hopefully fair and just) system of laws....that's it.....taking care of ourselves is our responsibility, not government's

[Chaka-Z0]

but I see too many people today clamoring for the government to be their nanny....that's not government's job.....government's only job is infrastructure upkeep, public defense and safety, national defense, and holding people accountable to a (hopefully fair and just) system of laws....that's it.....taking care of ourselves is our responsibility, not government's

Let's go with your definition of the Government's responsibilities, which to me seems very selfish and narrow-minded.

Healthcare
Not our job, take care of yourself. Private sector steps in, you now need a fortune to have access to medical care and most citizens that have trouble making ends meet are unable to afford it. Oh wait, isn't that the case already in the US?

Education
Not our job, you need to either home school, if you're lucky enough to have knowledgeable parents, or attend a private school, which once again is unavailable to those who can't afford it.

Unemployment
Not our job, send your resume to McDies because God knows we need a ton of burger flippers. For those who can't find a job, since McDonalds is fully staffed, go roam the street and become criminals, since there is no incentive or programs to put you back on track and that's the only possible way out to survive. Turns out there's a shortage of workforce in almost every sector of the economy.

Of course there will always be some people that leech welfare money and sit on their arse, but that's not a big part of the population. Not everyone is lucky enough to be born in a wealthy / middle class family, are you saying we should let these people down?

[mad_gater]

Let's go with your definition of the Government's responsibilities, which to me seems very selfish and narrow-minded.

Healthcare
Not our job, take care of yourself. Private sector steps in, you now need a fortune to have access to medical care and most citizens that have trouble making ends meet are unable to afford it. Oh wait, isn't that the case already in the US?

Education
Not our job, you need to either home school, if you're lucky enough to have knowledgeable parents, or attend a private school, which once again is unavailable to those who can't afford it.

Unemployment
Not our job, send your resume to McDies because God knows we need a ton of burger flippers. For those who can't find a job, since McDonalds is fully staffed, go roam the street and become criminals, since there is no incentive or programs to put you back on track and that's the only possible way out to survive. Turns out there's a shortage of workforce in almost every sector of the economy.

Of course there will always be some people that leech welfare money and sit on their arse, but that's not a big part of the population. Not everyone is lucky enough to be born in a wealthy / middle class family, are you saying we should let these people down?

Actually yes our healthcare system did a lot better when there were no 3rd parties involved in paying for it, back when healthcare, and any payment arrangements you needed to make, was a matter solely between caregiver and patient, back when it wasn't burdensome to pay out of pocket for routine things such as physicals and you only needed catastrophic care insurance to help pay for things like cancer care, car accident injuries, etc.

Basic education can be had at many parochial schools across the country with many of them offering tuition based on sliding scale of income.

And unemployment can be addressed by simply turning off the spigot of illegal immigration (and watching as they steal jobs that could be going to people here legally, and shipping that money back to their country of origin so that it's not even circulating in our economy anymore) and off-shore outsourcing, thereby re-igniting our domestic manufacturing base.

And there are non-profits that can also offer free or low-cost classes to learn new and/or upgrade existing job skills.

Nice strawmen you have there though

[Chaka-Z0]

Actually yes our healthcare system did a lot better when there were no 3rd parties involved in paying for it, back when healthcare, and any payment arrangements you needed to make, was a matter solely between caregiver and patient, back when it wasn't burdensome to pay out of pocket for routine things such as physicals and you only needed catastrophic care insurance to help pay for things like cancer care, car accident injuries, etc.

Basic education can be had at many parochial schools across the country with many of them offering tuition based on sliding scale of income.

And unemployment can be addressed by simply turning off the spigot of illegal immigration (and watching as they steal jobs that could be going to people here legally, and shipping that money back to their country of origin so that it's not even circulating in our economy anymore) and off-shore outsourcing, thereby re-igniting our domestic manufacturing base.

And there are non-profits that can also offer free or low-cost classes to learn new and/or upgrade existing job skills.

Nice strawmen you have there though

Oh boy I don't even know where to begin so I will stop there. I've come to the conclusion that I cannot have a sane debate with people that have anchored mindsets such as your own.

You sold it with *they steal our jobs*

[Annoyed]

Actually yes our healthcare system did a lot better when there were no 3rd parties involved in paying for it, back when healthcare, and any payment arrangements you needed to make, was a matter solely between caregiver and patient, back when it wasn't burdensome to pay out of pocket for routine things such as physicals and you only needed catastrophic care insurance to help pay for things like cancer care, car accident injuries, etc.

in large part, you can thank the legal profession for the astounding cost of routine, maintenance health care. All the malpractice insurance and the documentation, unneeded tests and documentation required to defend a malpractice suit which in most cases is just some lawyer telling a patient they just hit the lottery. No, screw-up doctors should not be given a pass, but the legal profession has driven their costs through the roof.

But as long as the rich lawyers get richer, who cares, right?

Basic education can be had at many parochial schools across the country with many of them offering tuition based on sliding scale of income.

Actually, I think the govt. should be responsible for basic education, K-12 for example. And that education should be sufficient to attain middle class levels of employment. And in many cases, it does, as far as learned skills and knowledge go.

But our extremely overpriced secondary education system has so successfully oversold business on the value of their very expensive product to the point where it's almost mandatory to have a sheepskin to flip burgers.

But, our well-to-do education industry gets richer, so who cares?

And unemployment can be addressed by simply turning off the spigot of illegal immigration (and watching as they steal jobs that could be going to people here legally, and shipping that money back to their country of origin so that it's not even circulating in our economy anymore) and off-shore outsourcing, thereby re-igniting our domestic manufacturing base.

And there are non-profits that can also offer free or low-cost classes to learn new and/or upgrade existing job skills

Of course, anyone with the sense God promised a doorknob can see what has happened to our labor markets over the past few decades. But the very well paid "experts", many of whom are ensconced in the aforementioned overpriced halls of academia always tell us different, while they're living very comfortable lives, often on the taxpayer's dime in one fashion or another, squirreling money away for retirements that very few private sector workers will ever be able to see the likes of.
And of course, the executives and owners of international companies support these deals do very well under them.

Notice the common thread here?

[Gatefan1976]

Paranoia?

[aretood2]

Actually I'm no boomer....more of an "X-ennial" you could say....but working for your money instead of relying on goernment assistance if you're able-bodied is just as timeless a virtue now as it was back in my parents' and grandparents' day...as borne out by the fact that we have all these economic woes due to off-shore outsourcing and importing of foreign labor

Speak for yourself. I have a steady job. My sister has a steady office job working for a law firm. My brother is a well paid computer networking guy. My parents are immigrants that came here with nothing but the cloths on their backs during the late Reagan years and managed to build a family and a home during the Clinton years and send their three kids to college during the Bush years. Jobs are out there for those who truly want them and if they aren't in your area there is one solution my parents tried (and undoubtedly your ancestors did the same thing) and that solution is to simply move to where there are jobs to be had. I may not say that back in 2009, but today the job market is supper healthy to the point where we are getting close to triggering inflation.

the thing you don't get is WHY did our parents and grandparents have all that money (in my case we never had much money because while my dad was an engineer he was a mediocre one and was always one of the first to be let go when they needed to make labor cuts but I'm talking in general here)? They had more money to save BECAUSE everything or nearly everything we used back then was made here in the USA....which meant that the domestic manufacturing centers were employing a lot of people back in their day....they weren't just handed all that money on a silver salver....they had to work their backsides off for it

Even if everything was made in the USA automation would mean that there'd still be a whole lot less jobs in manufacturing more than in the 40's and 50's. By the 70's the US was importing more stuff. That's why Womble calls them "Zombie jobs" because we will never ever ever get the same number of jobs from manufacturing unless we enact luddite laws and even then we still wouldn't because this would be our national anthem.

One reason why we have less money is that prices have increased at a rate that outpace wage increases, and keep in mind that our wage increases are rather on the low end for a host of other countries. In fact the us ranks rather low like in the bottom 20.

Then these tariffs would actually just make the low priced stuff more expensive, so congratulations not only are American made stuff going to be still expensive, now everything else is also going to be just as expensive because tariff don't lower domestic prices!

Let's say a pair of shoes that are imported cost $20 And an American made pair of shoes of similar quality and style that cost $25. A Shoe tariff would have to raise the imported Shoes to $25.01 so that you'd be more inclined to buy the "cheaper" shoes. Only problem is that you still have to pay $25.00, you're not saving anything. Any wage increase you could get in the short run is canceled away by the increase in spending you have to do.

but I see too many people today clamoring for the government to be their nanny....that's not government's job.....government's only job is infrastructure upkeep, public defense and safety, national defense, and holding people accountable to a (hopefully fair and just) system of laws....that's it.....taking care of ourselves is our responsibility, not government's

Notice you didn't mention anything about maintaining wages or price controls or jobs...yet that's what you and and your comrade Annoyed are advocating the glorious people's state to do.

Actually yes our healthcare system did a lot better when there were no 3rd parties involved in paying for it, back when healthcare, and any payment arrangements you needed to make, was a matter solely between caregiver and patient, back when it wasn't burdensome to pay out of pocket for routine things such as physicals and you only needed catastrophic care insurance to help pay for things like cancer care, car accident injuries, etc.

Insurance companies also had a play at it by trying to get people to use the doctors less for preventative care. Then they use their money to get congress to pass laws that make it harder for patients to do some price comparisons. Pricing is so mysterious that the doctors themselve don't know how much something cost.

Basic education can be had at many parochial schools across the country with many of them offering tuition based on sliding scale of income.

Parochial schools, not charter schools which are really subpar when compared to public schools.

And unemployment can be addressed by simply turning off the spigot of illegal immigration (and watching as they steal jobs that could be going to people here legally, and shipping that money back to their country of origin so that it's not even circulating in our economy anymore) and off-shore outsourcing, thereby re-igniting our domestic manufacturing base.

My dad constantly tells me how his boss wants more workers yet the only ones he gets are immigrants, and he pays well above minimum wage too and is pretty liberal with time off. But you are also forgetting that their relative buy American goods and services so it actually helps our export market...

Paranoia?

Those foreigners!!!!

[Coco Pops]

Oh look this is just hilarious

Haha ha ha ha

Who would have thought that some of these brave alt righters live at home with mummy and daddy

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...kessler-father

and more here

https://twitter.com/FlyingOverTr0ut/...83063036473344

[Coco Pops]

Why does Trump court neo nazis and white supremacists instead of banishing them?