Asgard pwnage beams how to fight them

[Buba uognarf]

Nice backpeddling. You specifically mentioned them using the beam weapons and heavily implied that was all they had.

I'm not back peddling. You said our ships were resiliant against Drones I said they pelted us with pulse weapons which they did, I don't recall seeing Drones impacting our ships. I never implied they had NO drones, just that they weren't used much certainly not in the way Ancient Aurora's have done.

According to you even, one would be enough to cripple a 304.

Its a fact, the Asurans were using drones in the battle; thus its all not unreasonable to assume that they used them on the 304s and thus that the Asgard shields are effective against them.

According to Todd, who probably saw more of the battle in BAMSR than you Drones would be effective even very effective against a 304.

You mean the same Orion that got blown to itty bitty pieces by just one hiveship? I don't think so.

The Orion was a damaged 10,000 year old ship which could only operate one system at a time. It still managed to take out a Hive ship in seconds and weather the assault of another. I'm sorry but if you can't see that a full fleet of 30 Ancient Aurora class vessels should have shredded at the very least the Hive ships present in BAMSR then there's something wrong with you. No insult intended but a damaged Aurora kills a Hive ship in 10 seconds and 30 Asuran ones can only destroy 1 in 2-3 minutes? Clearly there's a difference in offensive ability.

[thekillman]

a single orion volley kills a hive. one volley of every asuran aurora wouldve annihilated the fleet in seconds.

in transcrip:

EXT-Asuras
(the fleet drops out of hyperspace and opens fire)
EXT-Asuran Aurora
(an aurora fires a volley of drones, which heads towards the fleet. all around, auroras open fire with drone volleys.)
INT-Deadalus-bridge

MCKAY
oh crap.

CALDWELL.
BRACE FOR IMPACT!

EXT-Asuras Orbit
(both fleets oppose eachother while thousands of drones fly away from the Asuran fleet. more drones join from the surface of Asuras in a Lost City type of fasion)

EXT-DEADALUS
(a dozen drones impact on the shield, the shield fails and the ship is shredded)

EXT-Traveller Aurora
(the traveller Aurora holds out firmly against the drones)

EXT-Apollo
(the Apollo's shields fail from the strain of hundreds of drones, the drones penetrate and cut the ship to small pieces)

EXT-traveller fleet
(drones are cutting up the traveller fleet. the Aurora still stands)

EXT-Wraith Fleet
(the wraith fleet is engulfed by drones and large explosions mark the death of a hive, more hives covered in explosions and start crumbling)

EXT-ASURAS Orbit
(the Asuran fleet still stands unaffected. the Allied fleet is almost non-existant)

EXT-Traveller Aurora
(the Aurora fires pulse weapons and drones but both get stopped by the streams of drones impacted. the shields then fail and the ship is cut in half, then each half explodes while being shredded to pieces)



thats roughly the battle over asuras if they had ancient auroras and ancient city ships.

[Ed]

a single orion volley kills a hive. one volley of every asuran aurora wouldve annihilated the fleet in seconds.

in transcrip:

EXT-Asuras
(the fleet drops out of hyperspace and opens fire)
EXT-Asuran Aurora
(an aurora fires a volley of drones, which heads towards the fleet. all around, auroras open fire with drone volleys.)
INT-Deadalus-bridge

MCKAY
oh crap.

CALDWELL.
BRACE FOR IMPACT!

EXT-Asuras Orbit
(both fleets oppose eachother while thousands of drones fly away from the Asuran fleet. more drones join from the surface of Asuras in a Lost City type of fasion)

EXT-DEADALUS
(a dozen drones impact on the shield, the shield fails and the ship is shredded)

EXT-Traveller Aurora
(the traveller Aurora holds out firmly against the drones)

EXT-Apollo
(the Apollo's shields fail from the strain of hundreds of drones, the drones penetrate and cut the ship to small pieces)

EXT-traveller fleet
(drones are cutting up the traveller fleet. the Aurora still stands)

EXT-Wraith Fleet
(the wraith fleet is engulfed by drones and large explosions mark the death of a hive, more hives covered in explosions and start crumbling)

EXT-ASURAS Orbit
(the Asuran fleet still stands unaffected. the Allied fleet is almost non-existant)

EXT-Traveller Aurora
(the Aurora fires pulse weapons and drones but both get stopped by the streams of drones impacted. the shields then fail and the ship is cut in half, then each half explodes while being shredded to pieces)



thats roughly the battle over asuras if they had ancient auroras and ancient city ships.

Well that and a few kills from the inital suprise atack the first 20 seconds would have the same result.

[Buba uognarf]

Well that and a few kills from the inital suprise atack the first 20 seconds would have the same result.

Actually there should have been no surprise. Atlantis detects Hive ships from weeks out, the Asurans should have seen the Hives coming at the very least and been ready to blast them.

[Laxian of Earth]

yes that would help the wraith.

nice ideas, but i still don't like them as i don't like the wraith (with the exception of todd - as he seems smart, most of the rest are not, not even the queens)

greetings LAX
ps: the wraith will in my oppinion stay a lame enemy to SGA, because they didn't give us that much knowledge of them (for example: the typical live of a wraith, what do they do in their free time and such information, we know more about goauld pasttime (as it is much like human pasttime))

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I think the reason that we haven't seen anything extra of the Wraith's daily lives is because they are all about the hunt, feeding, territorial disputes over limited food supplies and that is pretty much it.
They are factions of Wraith, they don't have human like families, independent jobs, or TV or supermarkets to go and get their shopping, they just eat, sleep for hundreds of years and awaken again, but now that we've woken them up early they will stay awake and just keep feeding, until they maybe defeat the Tauri and call a truce with the factions to allow their cattle to grow in numbers again.
The Wraith could very well have had disagreements during the Ancient Vs Wraith war, but as they had a common enemy and much of the food they needed after growing in numbers they didn't have the problems they do now.
Still I think what we've seen of Wraith culture is pretty much all there is to be seen.

[jhkplaya888]

How do you know how the ancients fought? Sure they had a 10,000 year old ship that WE used to destroy a hive. Perhaps the ships were not intended to shoot off 1000's of drones but since we don't know that we sent 1,000's of drones and destroyed one hive, but led to the destruction of that ship. First off if every anicent ship did that they probably wont have enough drones left to take out a fleet. Its more wise to do what the asurans did, use energy weapons and use drones sparingly. If you had a gun with a limited amount of bullets would you semi auto or full auto.

The thought that the asurans were some how inferior to the ancients is dumb. I mean take for example now. If you have a robot build a gun or a human build the same gun, whats the difference? If anything the robot will build it more exact and better.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

How do you know how the ancients fought? Sure they had a 10,000 year old ship that WE used to destroy a hive. Perhaps the ships were not intended to shoot off 1000's of drones but since we don't know that we sent 1,000's of drones and destroyed one hive, but led to the destruction of that ship. First off if every anicent ship did that they probably wont have enough drones left to take out a fleet. Its more wise to do what the asurans did, use energy weapons and use drones sparingly. If you had a gun with a limited amount of bullets would you semi auto or full auto.

The thought that the asurans were some how inferior to the ancients is dumb. I mean take for example now. If you have a robot build a gun or a human build the same gun, whats the difference? If anything the robot will build it more exact and better.

Who exactly were you directing your post to as I didn't say anything about the Ancient's fighting tactics during the war with the Wraith?

[Laxian of Earth]

maybe right, but in your example (semi auto - full automatic fire):

it depends on the situation: if the enemy is in hand fighting range i would switch to full auto (and pump the mag into him) if he is further away i would go semi and shoot only every once in a while to preserver ammo)

greets LAX

[Buba uognarf]

It would be more resource effective for the Asurans to blow the enemy fleet away in 10 seconds with large numbers of drones then for them to let the battle drag on and lose ships.

Aurora's are large vessels, drones are small, they could effectively carry many thousands of them so firing off slavo's of hundreds isn't going to dent their stocks much.

[thekillman]

the asurans couldve blasted us to hell depleting the ammo of 1!!!! ship. they had 30. instead they lost.

now i too would set it to semi, because shooting 100 bullets at a dead body doesnt make sense. but even then they could have defeated us with exact kills- use just enough drones in 1 volley to kill us.

[lord groovy]

the asurans couldve blasted us to hell depleting the ammo of 1!!!! ship. they had 30. instead they lost.

now i too would set it to semi, because shooting 100 bullets at a dead body doesnt make sense. but even then they could have defeated us with exact kills- use just enough drones in 1 volley to kill us.

But well, they bitterly lost.

At best, the Tau'ri could just have supply the Wraith with informations concerning the Asuran plans and they would have taken care of them like they did with the Ancients. Add FRAN and we have two birds with one stone.

Back on topic, we have NEVER really seen the 304 hit by drones. Except when TPTB say so. And they NEVER did. So we should forget about that for EVER.

Got it?

[Buba uognarf]

The Asurans didn't really bitterly lose the fleet battle, they would have won had we not had Fran to suck them all up into that blob.

[lord groovy]

The Asurans didn't really bitterly lose the fleet battle, they would have won had we not had Fran to suck them all up into that blob.

In that I was just answering to killman saying that 1 aurora ship should have blasted the alliance fleet to hell.

I assumed that even underpowered compared to Ancient Aurora, each Aurora could have taken more than 2 ships : even cheap copy could still be more powerful that your usual hive. If they weren't, the Wraith would have destroyed them after having deactivated them the first time. If I remember correctly, Todd say that before that, they were particularly aggressive and I don't think this something you can let go easily.

I do like BAMSR but I think it should have been far more dramatical. Even the part about the 304s destroying easily the Auroras at the beginning seem too cheap.

Only based on that and the Ori battles, you would come to that simple conclusion :

a 300'000 year old race, dying from a widespread genetic ill-cloning disease created a weapon for a 5'000 year old civilization space-capable since 50 years and that weapon managed to destroy ships made by 2 factions of the oldest race in the Universe whose history is written in million years at least.

So to answer this topic :

1 - either nothing can stop those beams (at least not a shield since EATG)
2 - or if you take the same ratio than above, a 5 year old space-capable civilization could do that (probably by building mirror satellites to deflect them and send them back at the 304s)

Note : a Replicator ship from MW/Ida would do too, by absorbing the energy from the beams. They do absorb energy like the tiny bugs, don't they?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Well the regular Asgard Plasma pulse weapons can blast apart a Replicator block ship as was seen in New Order part 1 when the 6 O'Neills broke apart the ship in that episode.
I think the beams are just a variation of the Asgard's pulse weapons so they could still cause some damage to replicator sells and thus ships.

I think the only thing that can defeat the APBWs is uber dense Wraith hull armor or just massively dense armor, like a really thick solid Neutronium or the Naqueda, Trinium and Carbon made alloy.
Even with those I think the beam weapons could break through eventually if targeting concentrated fire on one spot and no repairs are made to that area.