Asgard pwnage beams how to fight them

[thekillman]

well we dont know about the tria, only that the cruisers ( in the end) fcked up the tria. so it couldve faced 100's of hives, then get challenged by hundreds of cruisers and nearly get killed by them

[Ed]

It was the Tria that got smacked around by cruisers and fled the battle with permanent hyperdrive damage. I'd agree that they were likely increased power generation cruisers of some kind, probably like just about all Wraith ships back then. It's no longer necessary to force oneself to imagine how modern ones could have done something like that to an Aurora, especially since the Tria had a ZPM on board.

Ideally what the Wraith should be doing is building mobile space colonies and warships as seperate classes and not trying to use one ship as a colony, a mainline capital ship and a harvesting platform. You could keep the hives as they are and use them for culling and command ships but also augment their dart squadrens with squadrens of much nastier military purposed fighters/bombers with hyperdrives so they can project power over entire regions of space. Their fragility won't matter then as all of their fighting will be done at extreme multiple lightyear ranges via launched attack craft, just like a modern aircraft carrier.

Then you could escort and protect them with boosted cruisers, no dart hanger/no hibernation cells/more power generators in empty spaces. You could also build a small number of dreadought hives that just used all of the normal carrier and hibernation/living spaces for power generation and weapon mounts and use those as heavy hitters for when packs of boosted cruisers backed up by waves of long range bombers wasn't enough for some reason.

This would make alot of sense too much for TPTB

[Buba uognarf]

Stay at a distance and shoot the 304 with drones. Problem solved.

[Crazedwraith]

304s seem pretty resilient to drone fire if BAMSR is anything to go by. Plus the 304 is jut go to sit there letting you hammer it from outside its own range? Not likely.

[Buba uognarf]

304s seem pretty resilient to drone fire if BAMSR is anything to go by. Plus the 304 is jut go to sit there letting you hammer it from outside its own range? Not likely.

They're not. In BAMSR the Asuran Aurora's pelted our ships with pulse energy weapons. If you think those Asuran copies were representations of true Ancient warships think again. A crippled 10,000 year old Orion out preformed the Asuran Aurora's, a fully powered and crewed Ancient warship IMO would eat a 304 alive.

TODD (looking at the screen): And give you the chance to take out my hyperdrive with one of your drones? I think not.

Thats Todd onboard the Deadalus in The Lost Tribe, he seems pretty confident Atlantis could take out the Deadalus's hyperdrive with but a single Drone. He's seen our ships enough times to know its capabilities its unlikely he's grossly underestimated them.

Drones can be launched on masse and simply swarm the 304 before it gets a chance to fire enough beam weapon shots to take out the Aurora.

[Crazedwraith]

They're not. In BAMSR the Asuran Aurora's pelted our ships with pulse energy weapons. If you think those Asuran copies were representations of true Ancient warships think again. A crippled 10,000 year old Orion out preformed the Asuran Aurora's, a fully powered and crewed Ancient warship IMO would eat a 304 alive.

Why not? The Asurans had all the knowledge of the ancients and have a planet full of their stuff; there's never been any mention there stuff in any worse than genuine ancient tech. Certinally we've been using their ZPMs with no problem for ages.


And I don't see any reason for Todd to have totally accurate infomation of the Deadelus' technology. He's got absolutely zero experience with Asgard tech as far as we know. He'd only had the thing very shortly. He could just have been very cautious. Or you know, been using Hyperbole.

[Buba uognarf]

Why not? The Asurans had all the knowledge of the ancients and have a planet full of their stuff; there's never been any mention there stuff in any worse than genuine ancient tech. Certinally we've been using their ZPMs with no problem for ages.

Because they're combat abilities were inferior to what we've seen of Ancient Aurora's. A 10,000 year old not in prime condition Aurora easily did a number on an Asuran version, there's also the fact that like I said the Orion against those Hives in 3x01 out preformed those Asuran ones.

Who says the Asurans have the full knowledge of the Ancients? They'd only have knowledge up to the time when they were destroyed by the Ancients.

Todd has had access to our databases on Atlantis he's also seen our ships in battle with the Replicators. Like i said its unlikely he grossly underestimated our ships abilities.

[Crazedwraith]

Even if his ship could sit above Atlantis and eat drones all day long, Todd still wasn't going to Atlantis and give them a chance to get the ship back. That's what Todd was saying. There's no reason to assume his lines are 100% totally accurate from a technical perspective.


EDIT: Any way, as far as I can tell this thread is about how the wraith can counter the 304s, as the Wraith don't have drones, this whole tangent is a moot point.

[Buba uognarf]

Even if his ship could sit above Atlantis and eat drones all day long, Todd still wasn't going to Atlantis and give them a chance to get the ship back. That's what Todd was saying. There's no reason to assume his lines are 100% totally accurate from a technical perspective.

There's also no reason to think he'd be completely wrong about our ships capabilities. He's hacked our computers, seen our ships in battle and has a fair amount of experience with drones. Do you think if the Asurans had been firing drones and they were ineffective that Todd would have bothered to say...

TODD (looking at the screen): And give you the chance to take out my hyperdrive with one of your drones? I think not.

The Asuran ships were clearly inferior in tactical ability, a damaged Ancient Aurora destroys Hive ships in 10 seconds. Asuran versions in a fleet of 30 barely manage to destroy 1 in a 3 minute battle, the Ancient one is clearly the better ship. Also remember Larrins Aurora took out an Asuran one with 2 drones.

There is no reason to think a 304 will be able to weather a swarm of drones.

Edit: I thought it was in general?

[Crazedwraith]

The Asurans were in fact using drones in that battle of Asuras. It's hard to tell but when Shep shoots down the cruiser, what it counter fires with is, in fact, drones. Plus as that one explodes, you can see another Asuran cruiser in the background fire off a whole volley of them into A hive which looks about ready to totally explode.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye_QlqERMGo

time index: 2:30-2:45

[Buba uognarf]

The Asurans were in fact using drones in that battle of Asuras. It's hard to tell but when Shep shoots down the cruiser, what it counter fires with is, in fact, drones. Plus as that one explodes, you can see another Asuran cruiser in the background fire off a whole volley of them into A hive which looks about ready to totally explode.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye_QlqERMGo

time index: 2:30-2:45

I never said they didn't have drones. They were used in much less numbers, its obvious from looking at the Orion that the Aurora's in BAMSR were inferior. Even if the entire fleet was made up of Orion's e.g. damaged, 10,000 year old Ancient warships they would have finished off our entire fleet. They only destroyed a single Hive in a battle lasting 2-3 minutes, we know Ancient Aurora's can destroy Hives in seconds.

[FN-P90]

All those nice new auroras gone to waste

[Crazedwraith]

I never said they didn't have drones.

Nice backpeddling. You specifically mentioned them using the beam weapons and heavily implied that was all they had.

They were used in much less numbers,

According to you even, one would be enough to cripple a 304.

Its a fact, the Asurans were using drones in the battle; thus its all not unreasonable to assume that they used them on the 304s and thus that the Asgard shields are effective against them.

its obvious from looking at the Orion that the Aurora's in BAMSR were inferior.

You mean the same Orion that got blown to itty bitty pieces by just one hiveship? I don't think so.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Didn't the Orion have no shields when it got destroyed by the Hive in No Man's Land?
The Orion still killed a Hive in a few seconds, something that the Asuran Auroras obviously couldn't do in BAMSR.
I'm pretty sure before jumping to the 2 Hive's location that all the Orion had was it's engines, sensors and essential systems in working order, other systems like shields and weapons weren't operational and Zalenka's team got both working by the time the Orion jumped out of hyperspace, but with limited power.
The Orion was obviously not a fully working ship as power had to be switched from shields to weapons, I doubt that would be the case with a band new Ancient Aurora.

[Ed]

Lantian auras are better than asuran auras we have seen them go head to head in BAMSR larins ship is a lantian auroa and it totaly devastated the other ship taking no damage itself