stargate V.S borg

[SoulReaver]

How is that a big if?

The Borg although quite strong, really are slow and uncoordinated and not that great at melee fighting. Replicators should be able to kill them easily.

to say they can board the ships is to assume they can get past borg shields, which are very advanced

[Buba uognarf]

Any ship infected with Replicators will self destruct. Scans of replicators will be analyzed by the entire collective all seventy five zillion kazillion million of them...I think eventually they'd find a way to stop them. And if the Borg found them early and attacked them with their full force before they could multiply they'd win.

TBH in an all out war I suspect the Replicators would probably win. Without them though the Borg would crush everyone. Resistance is futile.

[Vetesn]

Borg Advantages:
Numbers - some hundreds of Cubes and maybe a few thousand spheres, plus trillions of zombies

Borg Disadvantages:
Speed - limited to slow warp drives due to lack of transwarp conduit network, as well as 'barely moving' sublight engines compared to Stargate ships
Weapons - limited power, frequency based adaption useless against Stargate shields (they don't work that way)
Shields - limited effectiveness, frequency based adaption useless against Stargate weapons (they don't work that way)
Tactics - completely lacking
Collective - give it about a week before McKay or Carter disrupt or destroy the subspace link that maintains the hive mind

Replicators wouldn't waste their time on this, they only go after the most advanced technology.

[SoulReaver]

Borg Disadvantages:
Speed - limited to slow warp drives

wrong (cf. the borg sphere in s5 Drone )

Weapons - limited power

wrong (esp. for borg disruptor beams)

Shields - limited effectiveness, frequency based adaption useless against Stargate weapons (they don't work that way)

wrong, adaption is not exclusively frequency-based (cf. s5 Dark Frontier)

Collective - give it about a week before McKay or Carter disrupt or destroy the subspace link that maintains the hive mind

lol, even 24th federation scientists never did this (they did come up with something in TnG but we don't know if it would've worked as it was never put into practice)

[The Prophet]

If the Borg ever did manage to come across the Stargate Milky-Way and/ or Pegasus (probably by some Wormhole spanning the Alternate Universes), they'd probably send in fleets of Cubes. Then it would be only a matter of time before they came across a race that has Hyperspace Technology (possibly Earth). After some severely Outnumbering battles, the Borg would probably assimilate the Hyperspace Technology, granting them Above-Warp 10 Speeds.

Earth only has around 4~? ships at most. The 304s could probably take out some Cubes, but nothing is preventing the Borg from beaming down to the Earth's surface, to SGC, and assimilating the Base. The 304's would eventually loose to the numbers and possibly be adapted-against, and either be assimilated or, to prevent the technology from getting into the Borg's Hands, self-destruct. But, The Borg could easily gather the destroyed technology/ information from either the SGC, or Area 51 (these places should really have 304-like shields around them.

After the 304s are destroyed, virtually nothing apart from Space-capable Missiles could perhaps take out a Cube or two. Although they could probably be intercepted by Borg Phases and Torpedos, then destroy the Silos.

The projectile weapons of Earth would have effect over the Borg, as they can't adapt to bullets, so some resistance could be made but the Borg would probably destroy the leaders of nations Governments from Space, leaving an unorganized chaos of forces to deal with the ever-increasing Zombie-esque forces of the Borg, who would eventually assimilate the Earth, even with projectile weaponry (They had projectile weaponary in First Contact, and the Earth was assimilated then too).

Carter would either be aboard a 304, which would eventually be assimilated or destroyed. And the SGC & Area 51 would be a prime Borg-target, leaving an option of developing an Anti-Borg-Weapon/ Virus/ Device removed, as any research area advanced enough to do sufficient studies and creations would be over-run with Borg forces, or destroyed from space.

Atlantis could be called to help with an Anti-Borg Device/ Virus, but with the Borg over-running the SGC, this seems improbable. Most Likely Atlantis would be the next target of the Borg, after or during the Assimilation of Earth. And as they would have probably come across a Stargate (they're not really that uncommon, are they?) they would have probably figured out how to use it. The Borg Warp-Drive technology could probably power a a Stargate to dial another Galaxy, allowing the infestation of the Pegasus Galaxy to be a possibility.

Ironically, the only two species that could possibly stop the Borg have been destroyed by Humans- The Replicators and The Asurans. However, if the Borg ever do come across any remaining Replicators or Asurans, then they could eventually (after suffering some losses) adapt to incorporate the Nanotechnology into their own systems, replacing the clumsy cybernetic design of the Borg, and having a Organic-Replicator hybird, much like in (Mortal Coil Spoilers)

Spoiler:

This Mortal Coil. Having an Organic base, but with a Nanotechnological infestation, which could probably create various Borg-Technological aspects at will, incorporate Borg-Personal Shield, and have other qualities of a Borg Drone, such as regeneration and a hive-mind. This would allow for instantaneous assimilation. Circumventing the need to take the victim to be grafted with cybernetic plates and machinery, just insert Asuran Nanoprobes and instant-Drone!

[a6346]

This is my veiw on a war with the borg and il be happy to explain any problems you have.

1. a borg scout ship on a deepspace asignment finds a small ancient warship unmanned after getting intrigued by its new design they beam onboard and download its computer core. When anilyzing the core they find references to the pegasus galaxy were once a species learned to acend. after assimilatign the ship they discover its hyperdrive and many advantages to there transwarp technology and incorporate it on all there ships.

2. they send a scout ship to the pegasus galaxy to find out more about this race. Shortly after arriving they detect a ship in distant space they change course to intercept and hopefully gain more knowledge about the race that acended once they arrive they find a wraith hive ship floating there. The borg beam an away team onto the ship were they eject nanites into the organinc hull. After the wraith onboard attempt to stop there boarding action adapt to the wraith energy weps and assimilate the wraith onboard the hive opens up and destroys the scout ship but is still assimilated.

3. With the knowledge theyve gained they learned of the ancients atlantis the replicators tauri. They decide there next step is to investigate the assuras system and take there assimilated hive there once there the replicators open fire on the hive the borg beam to the surface and have a short breif fight with the replicators only winning by hand to hand tactics and number.

4. The borg decide they want to assimilate this race as they have some unique tech and some impressive resistance, to this end they arm 20 cubes for the fight and send them out a few weeks later (thnx to the new hyperdrive from the assimilated ancient ship) they arrive in pegasus galaxy decinding there numbers are to small they begin assimilating wraith hives they find 2 ships in battle a BC-304 and a hive they decide to assimilate the new vessel in hopes of finding more about the ancients after having seve4rally weakened shields the BC-304 gets locked by a cubes tractor beam and opens fire with beams doing moderate damage the borg adapt and begin draining the shields, eventually they brake through and assimilate the bc-304.

5. They learn of atlantis and set coarse for it when they arrive they dont detect any city there they spend a few hours in orbit scanning for it but decide its not there they leave a probe and move onto assuras.

6. The borg assualt assuras the assurans detect the cubes coming and raise there plantery shields the cubes jump into orbit were they are met by thousands of drones comming from the surface after using several thousand drones they take down a borg cube the borg beam through the shield (we know they can beam through shields) to what seems to be the power room from the large energy coming from it the borg scan the zpm's they find and turn off the system stopping the ancient sheids and the drones, and being bombarding the planet from orbit after its been suffciently supressed they download the remaning database gaining all the knowledge of the assurans and learn atlantis has a cloak

7. They jump back the atlantis and bombard the cloaked city whilst its shields are down (from the precise coordinates given to them by the bc-304)
when the cloak deactivates due to the shield generator being detroyed they beam drones into the city and find an active stargate and people abandoning the city. They manage to assimilte several scientists that were left behind and learn the cordinates of Earth.

8. they continue assimilating the wraith and other indigoines populations to gain a confirmed teritory in the new galaxy. They take some heavy losses to the wraith but continue to assimilate them the wraith go into hiding knowing tht they cant win and sleep for a very long time.

9. Earth sends a BC-304 to drop a horizon on atlantis to stop the borg from gating in. The borg arent fast enough to stop it and the city is destroyed. The borg use the knowledge theyve recently gained to fit asgard energy weapons on there cubes build ZPM's for there cubes and fit asgard shields on there smaller ships and set course for Earth.

10. 10 cubes apear in earth orbit earth fires thousands of drones at the first one and crtically damages it the serveral thousand borg from the ship beam to the surface and begin assimilating mankind. 4 bc-304's begin attacking the cubes but with the cubes asgard weps and current weps they dont do very good loosing all there ships in the process. They got 1 borg cube kill from the mk9's but lack of qauntity means they couldnt kill anymore.

11. the borg go about assimilating the rest of the galaxy without major opposition and using there new knowledge they set there eyes on the ORI galaxy but with there 20 cubes with asgard energy weps they easily out power the ORI and assimilate there 'biological and technological distinctivness' into there own

OMG sorry its so long but its still scaled down a lot and took me 30 minutes to write i love stargate but the borg are a relentless force the only race with any chance would be the replicators but after assimilating earth and using there pwarw they go back and finish the assurans off.

[The Prophet]

This is my veiw on a war with the borg and il be happy to explain any problems you have.

1. a borg scout ship on a deepspace asignment finds a small ancient warship unmanned after getting intrigued by its new design they beam onboard and download its computer core. When anilyzing the core they find references to the pegasus galaxy were once a species learned to acend. after assimilatign the ship they discover its hyperdrive and many advantages to there transwarp technology and incorporate it on all there ships.

That's a little extreme of a scenario. Coming across an Alternan/ Lantien Ship is rather rare. Especially when you're not really looking for one. And, if the Borg assimilated it, they would probably be practically unstoppable (and possible leave Earth alone, as we pretty much have inferior technology to anything the Borg could learn about the Ancients.

4. ...the BC-304 gets locked by a cubes tractor beam and opens fire with beams doing moderate damage the borg adapt and begin draining the shields, eventually they brake through and assimilate the bc-304.

The 304 would probably Self-Destruct if this were the case. Most Country's sink their ships if faced with capture, to prevent technology and information being leaked. The 304s would probably do the same, especially after realising what the Borg are planning to do (probably after observing the assimilated Wraith Ships).

6. the borg beam through the shield (we know they can beam through shields)

Don't they have to adapt to the shields first before being able to beam through them? A completely alien shield-generator would probably pose some challenge to the Borg, but they would probably be able to adapt to it eventually, but not after suffering a fair amount of damage from the Asuran Drones. Possible an armada of Cubes could stand up against the Asurans and adapt to the shields, but 20 seems a small number...

7. They jump back the atlantis and bombard the cloaked city whilst its shields are down (from the precise coordinates given to them by the bc-304)
when the cloak deactivates due to the shield generator being detroyed they beam drones into the city and find an active stargate and people abandoning the city. They manage to assimilte several scientists that were left behind and learn the cordinates of Earth.

The 304 would've probably self-destructed, and Altantis would have activated the Self-Destruct too, instead of leaving the city defenseless for assimilation.

11. the borg go about assimilating the rest of the galaxy without major opposition and using there new knowledge they set there eyes on the ORI galaxy but with there 20 cubes with asgard energy weps they easily out power the ORI and assimilate there 'biological and technological distinctivness' into there own

Asgard weaponry would have very little effect on the Ori-Ships. In the Avalon-battle, the Asgard ship did very little damage to the Ori-ships. Also, the Ori-Ships could probably lay waste to the Asgard sheilding. The 304's were equipped with Asguard shielding (weren't they?) and the Korlev was layed to waste by an Ori beam.

[a6346]

That's a little extreme of a scenario. Coming across an Alternan/ Lantien Ship is rather rare. Especially when you're not really looking for one. And, if the Borg assimilated it, they would probably be practically unstoppable (and possible leave Earth alone, as we pretty much have inferior technology to anything the Borg could learn about the Ancients.



The 304 would probably Self-Destruct if this were the case. Most Country's sink their ships if faced with capture, to prevent technology and information being leaked. The 304s would probably do the same, especially after realising what the Borg are planning to do (probably after observing the assimilated Wraith Ships).



Don't they have to adapt to the shields first before being able to beam through them? A completely alien shield-generator would probably pose some challenge to the Borg, but they would probably be able to adapt to it eventually, but not after suffering a fair amount of damage from the Asuran Drones. Possible an armada of Cubes could stand up against the Asurans and adapt to the shields, but 20 seems a small number...



The 304 would've probably self-destructed, and Altantis would have activated the Self-Destruct too, instead of leaving the city defenseless for assimilation.




Asgard weaponry would have very little effect on the Ori-Ships. In the Avalon-battle, the Asgard ship did very little damage to the Ori-ships. Also, the Ori-Ships could probably lay waste to the Asgard sheilding. The 304's were equipped with Asguard shielding (weren't they?) and the Korlev was layed to waste by an Ori beam.

well bc-304's are very small ships and borg have been known to overwhelm small ships in seconds by beaming thousands of drones onboard and assimilating the crew before they knew what was going on.

Havent you seen the asgard beams from post unending 3 shots could destroy an ori mothership and the borg dont even need to rely on shields due to there size.

In the atlantis situation ok fair enough it would be likely that they would self destruct but the borg would still get the knowledge from the bc-304, assuran homeworld, anicent ship database.

With the ancient ship, we know the sncients explored many galaxies and with stargates flucky side then they probably would find it but all theyd need to find is an asgard, tauri, ancient or replicator ship there was a certain amount of luck in its finding but if hey theres gota be someway of them fidning out about the ancients.

The replicator shields are a pain in the arse but even if those 20 cubes couldnt get through they could send there hundreds instead also with the assimilated hives they could hold there own for long enough to get the freqeuncy.

http://www.people.iup.edu/pnwm/comparison.gif

size comparison chart the intrepid class ship from startrek is about the size of a bc-304 maybe a bit bigger.

The borg could adapt to all new shields from alien species in minutes and the planetary shield is just a larger version of a normal alien shield.

[SG66]

people seem to be giving the borg to much credit. yes they are a tough and intellegent race, but even they can be defeated. the asgard weapons and shields are completely different then what the borg are used the facing, which is federation type shielding. plus we can easily beam over nukes to their ships, and even if we couldn't beam one over we can beam one right next to the ship. a gatebuster nuke can probably weaken the shields on a borg sphere. plus in atlantis in BAMSR we discovered we could build human form replicators and we can specifically code them todo as we say, which is the case with FRAN. we could program a few to go abourd a borg ship and cause damage using projectile type weapons, which the borg are useless against. and because the replicators can't be assimilated, they can cause a considerable amount of damage. this is no insult, but people here are forgeting that the star trek and stargate worlds work with 2 different sets of rules. there are to many unknown factors that could lead to a victory from either side.

[Vetesn]

wrong (cf. the borg sphere in s5 Drone )

Wrong what? Borg ships can travel with normal warp drive (much slower than hyperspace) or through transwarp, which requires artificially made conduits. Those don't exist in the Stargate universe. Are the Borg going to magically build them across the galaxy?

wrong (esp. for borg disruptor beams)

Borg disruptors require multiple hits to penetrate the inferior shields of Starfleet, and most of the damage comes from their adaptions going through those leaky shields.

wrong, adaption is not exclusively frequency-based (cf. s5 Dark Frontier)

Which adaption? when they "triangulated" their shields to deflect a modulating phaser pulse, another frequency weapon? Every adaption ever made against or countered by the Borg has always been "modulate the frequency" or "rotate frequencies."

lol, even 24th federation scientists never did this (they did come up with something in TnG but we don't know if it would've worked as it was never put into practice)

Federation scientists are using technology inferior to the Goa'uld, Asgard, and Alteran/Lantean resources available to the SGC. Sure they got some new Ori toys now also.

[SoulReaver]

Wrong what? Borg ships can travel with normal warp drive (much slower than hyperspace) or through transwarp, which requires artificially made conduits. Those don't exist in the Stargate universe. Are the Borg going to magically build them across the galaxy?

nope, not magic - technology actually
s5 episode 2 (drone)
one says : "long-range vessel. transwarp capabilities" (cf. the borg sphere)
individual ships also have their own transwarp drive, some of them anyway (it may be slower than the transwarp conduit that allows them do deploy anywhere in the MW in minutes, though)

Borg disruptors require multiple hits to penetrate the inferior shields of Starfleet

the borg want to assimilate the crew to make more drones, their priority is to disable vessels not destroy them. we've seldom seen "one-hit shield-kills" in ST anyway (the only exception I recall is the 8472 bioguns)

and most of the damage comes from their adaptions going through those leaky shields.

if that were true then the beams would hit the hulls directly, which ain't the case. that's because the federation did come up with those "adaptive shields" (similar to what the borg use but not as advanced)

Which adaption? when they "triangulated" their shields to deflect a modulating phaser pulse, another frequency weapon? Every adaption ever made against or countered by the Borg has always been "modulate the frequency" or "rotate frequencies."

actually they said "traxilate" to adapt to the phaser against which the usual frequency-adaptation trick proved useless, so what I meant was whatever adaptation mojo they pulled off in Dark frontier was not a mere frequency-thing
in the Battle of Wolf359 & subsequent battle of sector 001 the "phaser-frequency-rotating" trick was also known to the feds yet it hardly availed them (in the battle of sector 001 for example the borg cube was still ticking even after having been pursued across the quadrant by a whole federation fleet)

Federation scientists are using technology inferior to the Goa'uld, Asgard, and Alteran/Lantean resources available to the SGC.

ow ? the asgard may be on par with the trekkies (or beyond, perhaps, in some aspects) but the comparison with the goa'uld is amusing at best
the federation has matter-antimatter power-generation capabilities (something only surpassed, perhaps, by zpe which only the ancients & asurans used). the federation also has phase-cloaking tech, which not even the ancients possessed. add to this the various beam weapons (phasers, disruptors, and various alien ones they've captured like phased polaron beams which can go through most shields, and that ain't a frequency thing either), plus you'll notice that beam weaponry in the ST-verse also happens to travel instantaneously (the way a beam should) giving the enemy no chance to dodge ^_^
edit> you can also add the hirogens' tetron beam tech, the borg no doubt possess it too since they've assimilated hirogens in the past. all in all that's quite an variety of (true) beam-weapons in the ST-verse...

[Vetesn]

nope, not magic - technology actually
s5 episode 2 (drone)
one says : "long-range vessel. transwarp capabilities" (cf. the borg sphere)
individual ships also have their own transwarp drive, some of them anyway (it may be slower than the transwarp conduit that allows them do deploy anywhere in the MW in minutes, though)

Borg ships use the transwarp coil to enter those conduits. It burns them out, which is why they use the hubs. More efficient.

if that were true then the beams would hit the hulls directly, which ain't the case. that's because the federation did come up with those "adaptive shields" (similar to what the borg use but not as advanced)

We saw in the first Borg encounter, the pilot of DS9, and First Contact that Borg weapons ignore shields they've adapted too. When did the Feds get these adaptive shields? the only anti-Borg defense they got was that ridiculous armor.

actually they said "traxilate" to adapt to the phaser against which the usual frequency-adaptation trick proved useless, so what I meant was whatever adaptation mojo they pulled off in Dark frontier was not a mere frequency-thing

No, the Borg came up against a form of modulation that rendered conventional defenses inadequate, so they adapted accordingly.

ow ? the asgard may be on par with the trekkies (or beyond, perhaps, in some aspects) but the comparison to the goa'uld is amusing at best
the federation has matter-antimatter power-generation capabilities (something only surpassed, perhaps, by zpe which only the ancients & asurans used). the federation also has phase-cloaking tech, which not even the ancients possessed. add to this the various beam weapons (phasers, disruptors, and various alien ones they've captured like phased polaron beams which can go through most shields, and that ain't a frequency thing either), plus you'll notice that beam weaponry in the ST-verse also happens to travel instantaneously (the way a beam should) giving the enemy no chance to dodge ^_^

The Federation uses "matter-antimatter power generation"...and North Korea calls itself a democratic republic. Names mean nothing, the actual performance is what matters. No federation ship can generate the amount of power required for the shields and engines used on stargate ships. Where in Starfleet have they moved a ship as big as a Ha'Tak out of an atmosphere? or sat near a star for hours. They don't have phase cloaking either, they have a rogue failed experiment that's shelved so as not to piss off the Romulans. Meanwhile the SGC cloaked a planet (which was kinda lame). What's so great about phasers or disruptors? they're mediocre weapons. I can recall many fights of ships dodging phaser and disruptor fire (Klingons attacking DS9, Federation fight to retake DS9, Defiant engaging that Klingon flagship in the mirror universe, etc).

[SoulReaver]

Borg ships use the transwarp coil to enter those conduits. It burns them out, which is why they use the hubs. More efficient.

but some of them do have their own transwarp drives that's what One meant

We saw in the first Borg encounter, the pilot of DS9, and First Contact that Borg weapons ignore shields they've adapted too. When did the Feds get these adaptive shields? the only anti-Borg defense they got was that ridiculous armor.

they call them regenerative shielding (or adaptive shielding, not sure now), basically it...adapts by analyzing incoming enemy fire & adjusting the shield frequency
"ridiculous armour" ? it made them almost invulnerable. 10 to 1 they'd shrug off whatever SG could throw at them, for a spell

No, the Borg came up against a form of modulation that rendered conventional defenses inadequate, so they adapted accordingly.

modulation schmodulation, whatever it was it was a new tech that made frequency-adaptation useless so they tried something else. they changed the "geometry" of the shield not just a frequency setting

The Federation uses "matter-antimatter power generation"...and North Korea calls itself a democratic republic. Names mean nothing, the actual performance is what matters. No federation ship can generate the amount of power required for the shields and engines used on stargate ships.

no that's precisely what remains to be shown, but to do so would be to bring up all the inconsistencies between the two verses in terms of speed power durability...scale etc., and resolve them (good luck), otherwise not only would names mean nothing, but cross-over comparisons would mean nothing as well - btw. that's been brought up more than once before (but hey no matter how senseless these threads are fun nonetheless )

They don't have phase cloaking either, they have a rogue failed experiment that's shelved so as not to piss off the Romulans.

it's phase-cloak, and it works. damn right it's rogue and over 18 years old at that, so imagine what they could do now esp. if they ignored the Algerion treaty or whatever

What's so great about phasers or disruptors? they're mediocre weapons.

nah they're so much c00ler ya know :|

I can recall many fights of ships dodging phaser and disruptor fire

yeah that was as Spock would say, illogical, and as you'd say, "lame"

[Mister Oragahn]

Ships for the Borg: Easily 100,000 Cubes, which are 27 cubic km = roughly the size of a Hive. 64,000 drones each. Needed a entire Federation fleet to take 1 out.

Borg easily has over 1 million ships total.

Even if they cannot adapt to SG tech, the vast advantage goes to the Borg.

SG forces: Earth 3 ships, Wraith max 150, all Jaffa+Gaould = 1,000 Ha'taks+Asgard before death 40 ships+ Ori 50 ships + Asurans 80 ships + MW Replicators 200 ships + Annubis and Aphophis at height 500 ships...

That total comes nowhere near 5,000 ships.


Borg by ownage. Only way to defeat the Borg, using another tactic.

Species 8472: Massive amount of ships, tech was not adaptable and massive firepower (Ori like).

The Borgs and Replicators are the same to their respective universes, safe that all debates I've seen, here and elsewhere, end with the Replicators owning the Borgs, in a way akin to defenseless little girls outnumbered and beaten by horrible trollish giant cavemen.

[Buba uognarf]

The thing is the Borg have such massive numbers the Replicators would have a hell of a time destroy them all. Then there's the fact the Borg could quite possibly find a way to defeat them through the possibly the subspace link or even a Anti replicator weapon.

If we only include present races the Borg win hands down IMO. Even if a Ha'tak can take on 10 Borg cubes by itself the Borg will have too many ships to overcome IMO.