Angry at Weakness of Replictor Ships and tech plot holes (Spoilers for BAMSR)

[SoulReaver]

"near-infinitely small" ? ^_^ anyway they were still less advanced than the ancients (the MW replicators I mean) so there is a limit to their knowledge
also the size consideration assumes that shields can be compared to a net of some sort, in which case sufficiently small objects could slip through - however this may only apply to some types of shields, if any, as shielding differs vastly with each race, actually we know nothing about how shields work (and according to real-life present-day earth-science it's impossible (I mean the true energy-shielding, not those experimental plasma shields that are nothing more than material walls))

and even if all shields were like nets all the asgard would have to do is reduce the size of the meshes to make them much much smaller than a nanite, since shields are massless it would always be possible to make the meshes smaller than any material object possibly could


btw the ori beams did not use only brute force against shields, the fact that they could punch through shields was due to...something else...this was clearly shown in Ethon

[verbalkint]

Again, for those citing the ineffectiveness of the Asgard weapons vs the Ori shields in the initial supergate encounter you are not taking into account time had passed since then and the Asgard were able to work on developing stronger weapons to deal with the Ori threat. All citing of the strength of the earth vessels equipped with Asgard weapons should be done according to the Unending sg-1 episode where the Daedalus was able to handle multiple Ori ships quite efficiently.

I was expecting the hive ships to be sliced and diced but clearly the Aurora class ships just aren't that strong.

Alot of people expect the Asurans to be the equivalent of the ancients and that just isn't sensible. Yes they are based off the ancient's tech but we must also remember these are the same machines that apparently the wraith were able to figure out and cancel certain parts of their code. We didnt even see any Asuran Anti-wraith satellites set up around their planer like you'd expect. Clearly the Asurans were basically twiddling their thumbs during those 10,000 years of having the aggression taken out of their code.

[DetriusXii]

The bigger problem is that, since the Asgard beams slice through ships like butter, I'm left wondering what the hell is going to give earth a challenge? The only ones who I can point to are the Lucian alliance. They have been an innovator of Go'uld technology and successfully disabled an x304.

[fugiman]

The bigger problem is that, since the Asgard beams slice through ships like butter, I'm left wondering what the hell is going to give earth a challenge? The only ones who I can point to are the Lucian alliance. They have been an innovator of Go'uld technology and successfully disabled an x304.

I think the Lucian Alliance sotry arc was taken care of and with our new weapons we would be able to slice and dice their ships in seconds

[Blistna]

also.....the human ships could barely take the fire, in fact, i bet the only reason we were surviving was our advanced shields and fast movement. If we have a bigger, slower ship...we would be screwed.

EDIT:

Also, I just watched it again on youtube....we destroyed (on screen....meaning what was shown) three ships without shields. And it took them about thirsty seconds to a minute to even bring shields online....plus, the replicators were trying to figure out what the heck McKay was doing on the surface, plus trying to fight...

But even above that, it looks like the Aura class has one major weakness....the hyperdrives or by them. When it explodes....the entire ship does. And our plasma beam weapons did a heavy toll on their shields...


I think they just didn't know what the hell was going on. If the battle was an all out battle without that cheap exploding the planet....we would have lost.

[wise one]

the travellers ships i thought should of been destroyed with so much ease

yet they seem to be acceptable to block drones from their shields which i think its stupid since the gouald hataks being much more advancer even with ancient derived shields could be taken out


and it makes sense that the earth ships weapons would destroy replicator ships with ease

but the drones rate of fire was stupid firing shot after shot which lead to them to being fired at dozens of times

[kirmit]

Did drones get used against the Earth ships? I didn't see any, guess TPTB dodged that bullet......again, when will they give us a clear answer.

[JSPuddlejumper]

Travelers were back in the Ancient days, their direct Ancestors were Ancients.

So I would think their shields can withstand some drone hits.


Plus the Traveler ships being so small, and the weakest firepower of the 3 classs of ships = last target for the Aurora's.

Primary target Hives, the Asurans should have switched to the Earth ships when the found of: Woah the firepower is off the scales.

[kirmit]

Travelers were back in the Ancient days, their direct Ancestors were Ancients.

So I would think their shields can withstand some drone hits.


Plus the Traveler ships being so small, and the weakest firepower of the 3 classs of ships = last target for the Aurora's.

Primary target Hives, the Asurans should have switched to the Earth ships when the found of: Woah the firepower is off the scales.

The Travellers weren't direct descendants of the ancients, if they were they'd all have the ancient gene which we know alot of them don't. They're just like all the other residents of pegasus with the exception they learnt about space travel and have kept on the move since.

[Seastallion]

There were plotholes here and there to be faiir, I think folks are underestimating several things. For one, the element of suprise is VERY poweful in any attack and I seriously doubt the Replicators EVER imagined that they'd get attacked by a massive fleet made up of different races all of a sudden as they did. Replicators have never been good with suprises in the short run. Oh, sure, they adapt given enough time, but that was sort of the point of this episode. They weren't given much time to adapt, to rapidly changing circumstances and they got swept up in them before they knew what was coming next.

Additionally, while on the surface, it seems that the 'alliance' ships were outnumbered 2 to 1, that actually wasn't the case. Here is the outline...

2 Earth Ships- Alone (with new Asgard tech) each could probably handle 2 or 3 Replicator ships each, especially with the element of suprise (and confusion) on their side. Additionally each ship was carrying a squadron of F-302's which at the very least would serve as a distraction for the Replicators, but armed with nukes (I don't see why they couldn't have been, as Nukes ARE made that small) could pack a pretty mean punch, especially in a pack. So the Earth ships could potentially take on between 4 to 7 ships on their own.

7 Hive Ships- Optimistically, each Hive could take on 1 Replicator ship each, especially (again) with the element of suprise on their side. Additionally, each Hive launched a wave of Wraith Darts which effectively double the offensive capability of each ship, meaning they could theoretically taken on as many as 14 Replicator ships simultaneously in a reasonably effective manner. So the Hive ships could potentially take on roughly 14 ships on their own.

? 5 Traveler Ships- This may or may not Include the Aurora class Ancient ship under Larin's command. Sheppard mentioned to Carter that they had a total of 14 confirmed ships to the operation (Earth-2, Wraith-7, and Travelers-5) and then told her that Larin thought she could get 3 or 4 more to join up. Thus, taking the total number of ships potentially up to 17 or 18 capitol ships. The Aurora class ship would be able to take on probably at least 2 Replicator ships on its own in a suprise ambush, and the additional 4-8 Travelers ships might at least slow down the others long enough to let the power players get in some shots after they've taken their own opponents down. So the Travelers could potentially take on 6 to 10 ships long enough to at least slow them down if not out right destroy them.

So that leaves us with a minimum of 24 'sure' match ups, with a potential upward to 31 in the initial suprise attack Also, keep in mind that the 'alliance' ships did NOT have to destroy the Replicator ships to stop them, they ONLY had to disable their hyperdrives. The Replicator ships did NOT have that luxury, and it is unlikely that any of them tried to flee in the first moments of the attack simply because they had no way to think they might lose so badly. It was only near the end of the battle that at least one Replicator ship realized it needed to escape, but it was stopped. By the time the others may have realized it, it was too late. Super-Magnet-Blob had already begun sucking them down.

So it came down to this...

A suprise ambush designed to stun and confuse the enemy (very effective), and then a quick and decisive followup to end the battle nearly as quickly as it began (leaving the enemy little or no time to adapt). In short the Replicators weren't taken because of superior weapons or numbers, but rather superior tactics and quick decisive action in carrying them out.

The plotholes aren't THAT bad...

[Mister Oragahn]

"We took them totally unprepared."

Just how many time are people going to repeat that?

Did you miss the point about the Asurans being aware of the assault against their world, which was the point of all their ships brought back?

[Seastallion]

"We took them totally unprepared."

Just how many time are people going to repeat that?

Did you miss the point about the Asurans being aware of the assault against their world, which was the point of all their ships brought back?

Actually, they did NOT bring their ships back because they were aware of an imminent attack on their homeworld. They brought them home to keep them from getting destroyed by the Earth ships, and they being unable to prevent it. Bringing them all home was a temporary countermeasure to prevent losing more ships until they could build more to go back out in packs instead of individually.

By doing so, they created an opportunity for their enemies to make one all out attack to take them once and for all.

[Mister Oragahn]

also.....the human ships could barely take the fire, in fact, i bet the only reason we were surviving was our advanced shields and fast movement. If we have a bigger, slower ship...we would be screwed.

You're kinding, right?
The ranges which the ships fired at were so stupidly short that no manoeuver could have prevented the 304s from being hit until they started to circle the planet at a good fraction of c, which of course they didn't.

EDIT:

Also, I just watched it again on youtube....we destroyed (on screen....meaning what was shown) three ships without shields. And it took them about thirsty seconds to a minute to even bring shields online....plus, the replicators were trying to figure out what the heck McKay was doing on the surface, plus trying to fight...

Oh yes, that much require so much brain power for machines which can unite their computing power. :|

- Put the shields up!
- Wait, I'm thinking.
- So you can't press that button?
- I told you I was thinking! Stop disturbing me! The humans are doing something... I sense it...
- Oh get off that console, I'm going to put the shields on before one of their fighters vapourizes our armoured battleship, built upon the schematics of top of the cake military warships made by people being millions of years old who travelled the whole universe and who built melon sized power sources capable of blasting star systems.
- Back off, dude. This is MY conso... *BOOM*

But even above that, it looks like the Aura class has one major weakness....the hyperdrives or by them. When it explodes....the entire ship does. And our plasma beam weapons did a heavy toll on their shields...

Aurorags have one weakness, but it has nothing to do with a technical design.

I think they just didn't know what the hell was going on. If the battle was an all out battle without that cheap exploding the planet....we would have lost.

Oh yes, what the hell could have been going on?...
Only Hawkings could have figured it out, and it would have took him two months of intense thinking before pulling the solution out.

[Mister Oragahn]

Actually, they did NOT bring their ships back because they were aware of an imminent attack on their homeworld. They brought them home to keep them from getting destroyed by the Earth ships, and they being unable to prevent it. Bringing them all home was a temporary countermeasure to prevent losing more ships until they could build more to go back out in packs instead of individually.

By doing so, they created an opportunity for their enemies to make one all out attack to take them once and for all.

Huh, I thought the Asurans had intel that the human ships, and potentially allies, were preparing some quick assault...

I haven't watched that episode, I'm only working from the analysis of other people, and the whole battle sequence I saw and the final bits of the episode.

So the human ships were one shooting Aurorags all across the galaxy, forcing the Asurans to retreat?
Oh the pain. That must have been exciting to watch.

[Blistna]

You're kinding, right?
The ranges which the ships fired at were so stupidly short that no maneuver could have prevented the 304s from being hit until they started to circle the planet at a good fraction of c, which of course they didn't.

No, I wasn't kidding. But our ships are much faster, so they could maneuver if they had room -- maybe they didn't.

Oh yes, that much require so much brain power for machines which can unite their computing power. :|

- Put the shields up!
- Wait, I'm thinking.
- So you can't press that button?
- I told you I was thinking! Stop disturbing me! The humans are doing something... I sense it...
- Oh get off that console, I'm going to put the shields on before one of their fighters vapourizes our armoured battleship, built upon the schematics of top of the cake military warships made by people being millions of years old who travelled the whole universe and who built melon sized power sources capable of blasting star systems.
- Back off, dude. This is MY conso... *BOOM*

Now your just making fun. But we know that the Replicators aren't good with surprises, and we know -- just like the Altarens -- they are overconfident. And you are putting words in my mouth -- I never said they had trouble turning their shields on, for once can't you just read and understand what I was saying? Here, let me quote words from word what i said -- make it easy for you.

"we destroyed (on screen....meaning what was shown) three ships without shields. And it took them about thirsty seconds to a minute to even bring shields online."

This means that within thirty seconds, BEFORE they started doing anything on the planet....that the human ships, the hives, and the travelers all destroyed a total of four hive ships. That was WITHIN thirty seconds to a minute...because of the element of surprise.

Furthermore, after that the Replicators were fighting back -- and they destroyed at least one traveler ship, and who knows how many hives were destroyed -- they didn't go at the meeting spot. And, like I said -- they no doubt were trying to fight them back and figure out what was going on with their city down below -- not saying that was the cause for them being destroyed, but could have been a reason.

Aurorags have one weakness, but it has nothing to do with a technical design.

Well, Mr Who Knows Everything About a Race that is gone....The Aura may be perfect, but if you watch the show almost all of them was destroyed with ease by several hits at the hyper drive. Maybe that means nothing, but at the same time -- fact is fact...

Huh, I thought the Asurans had intel that the human ships, and potentially allies, were preparing some quick assault...

I haven't watched that episode, I'm only working from the analysis of other people, and the whole battle sequence I saw and the final bits of the episode.

So the human ships were one shooting Aurorags all across the galaxy, forcing the Asurans to retreat?
Oh the pain. That must have been exciting to watch.

....and you haven't watched the show, yet you are saying all that about my theory? Man...that takes some balls.