Angry at Weakness of Replictor Ships and tech plot holes (Spoilers for BAMSR)

[garhkal]

it's funny to see how TPTB create superpowerful races and later these races act as a group of morons

I think it is their own stupidity coming back to bite them. They created them so powerful that they had to dumb them down to give us a chance of wiping them out..

Why is it all ships use seperate hyperspace windows now? What ever happened to multiple ships using the same window?

Different groups. I know the Gou'ald used same windows to travel, but the wraith and such went into seperate ones (well except iirc for the end of Allies)..

off-topic: why were none of the travelers surprised at ronon's gun

Maybe they did not notice... Or he did not leave the jumper..

[sparkygate]

since when are aurora's so fragile? a single beam from a 304 cut an aurora in half. each hit destroyed an aurora even more. there was nothing left.

Hey umm. atlantis is consider fragile. the atlanteans built a shield for all intensive purpose of being able to power it and sustain it long enough so they can destroy the enemy before they run out of ammo and etc.. thats no reason to assume the the aurora is like battlestar galactia which can take on several nukes and weapons fire...

Though i do have to agree about how weak the replicator ships look like

If you remember back to "Before I Sleep" the alternate-weir quoted

ALT-WEIR: The Atlanteans sent a delegation protected by their most powerful warships in the faint hope of negotiating a truce. One on one, the Atlantean ships were more powerful, but the Wraith were so many. After that great battle, it was only a matter of time.

YET we see in this episode the Asurans HAD ABOUT 30 or so aurora class ships against the incoming fleet of:
- 2 Asgard-enhanced Daedalues Class Ships --> Could take on say 6-8 Aurora Ships together, Maybe 3-4 One on One
- 1 Aurora Class Ship --> Maybe 2 Aurora Class Ship (Depends on if they run out of drones)
- 5 Travelers Ship (Smaller class) --> Most likely won't be able to stand one on one with an Aurora class ship but together MAYBE
- 7 Wraith Hive Ships --> Together could probably take on AT LEAST 2-4 aurora class ships

In ALL LOGIC the Asurans should have been able to put up a bigger battle and at least destroy more of our fleet! Because we didn't have the numbers they actually did, not only that where were the smaller or "Super" jumpers shouldn't they be in the air defending their own planet (i know if i was a council member i would either give the sign for retreat OR if there was not escape i will give the enemy one hell of a battle before i die, meaning sending ALL ships in battle)
My guess is that the Asurans once again underestimate us by not sending anymore ships to space to fight, they probably thought that they were going to win SINCE they had 30 or so Aurora class vessels.

[!!??]

Hey umm. atlantis is consider fragile. the atlanteans built a shield for all intensive purpose of being able to power it and sustain it long enough so they can destroy the enemy before they run out of ammo and etc.. thats no reason to assume the the aurora is like battlestar galactia which can take on several nukes and weapons fire...

Though i do have to agree about how weak the replicator ships look like

If you remember back to "Before I Sleep" the alternate-weir quoted

YET we see in this episode the Asurans HAD ABOUT 30 or so aurora class ships against the incoming fleet of:
- 2 Asgard-enhanced Daedalues Class Ships --> Could take on say 6-8 Aurora Ships together, Maybe 3-4 One on One
- 1 Aurora Class Ship --> Maybe 2 Aurora Class Ship (Depends on if they run out of drones)
- 5 Travelers Ship (Smaller class) --> Most likely won't be able to stand one on one with an Aurora class ship but together MAYBE
- 7 Wraith Hive Ships --> Together could probably take on AT LEAST 2-4 aurora class ships

In ALL LOGIC the Asurans should have been able to put up a bigger battle and at least destroy more of our fleet! Because we didn't have the numbers they actually did, not only that where were the smaller or "Super" jumpers shouldn't they be in the air defending their own planet (i know if i was a council member i would either give the sign for retreat OR if there was not escape i will give the enemy one hell of a battle before i die, meaning sending ALL ships in battle)
My guess is that the Asurans once again underestimate us by not sending anymore ships to space to fight, they probably thought that they were going to win SINCE they had 30 or so Aurora class vessels.

All the asurans want to do is kill wraith after getting it in their program so i dont think they care if they die or not because they dont want to live so much as humans do. For example fran didnt care if she died as long as she fulfilled her destiny. I do agree that the asurans were being too arrogant in this episode or they just lost their mind when seeing the uber asgard beams that we should have never got.

[verbalkint]

It seems alot of people are forgetting a couple important points.
(1) We have never seen an Aurora do well in battle. Everytime the Atlantis team came across one it was badly damaged.
(2) The Asurans lack combat knowledge and skill. They were programmed to attack the wraith but they have been shut down out of that aggressive command for thousands of years.
(3)How many times we seen the Atlantis team sneak up on the Asurans? They are totally out of whack when it comes to sneak attacks. I don't know if it is overconfidence or what but it seems like whenever they are focused on a task they have blinders on and are oblivious to things approaching.
(4) The most important thing people are not acknowledging or remembering is that the Asgard weapons are the NEWEST & MOST ADVANCED that they have designed. They were designed to be powerful enough to deal with the Ori shields which proved to be almost too good when SG-1 and all those Hataks took on the Ori at the supergate when the Ori's fleet just arrived. It makes perfect sense that the Asgard amped up the strength of the weapons plus we know both earth ships have Asgard designed shields which are top notch.
(5) Its official, Aurora-class ships are the equivalent of the prometheus.
(6) Did anyone else catch the wraith who was assisting Rodney with the shutdown code tell the crew of his hive to channel all power in damaged sections to hull regeneration? That is the reason why the wraith are hard to take out, yes they have tremendous shielding but their organic technology allows their ship to regenerate hull integrity on purpose.

[JSPuddlejumper]

Only ships that should have been completely owning Aurora's were our ships.

Hives should have been annihilated, Traveler ships being so insignificant could have escaped for the most part I suppose.

Asgard beam weapons better do massive damage to the Hives. The way they destroyed the armored Aurora's...1 hive was taken out by the Lantean satellite weapon. The way the destroyed the massive Ori ships...

I guess it depends on how much balancing is going to take place on part of the director.

"you have to use the baseline for those asgard weapons, what they were designed for - punch through ori shields, shields given to them from ascended beings, who know the inside and outs of the lower plane so to speak, they can mess around with it like lego blocks, those shields will most likely be the best shields. they cheated so to speak

now the asgard purposely built weapons to get though them, so why is it such a shock that they break through asuran shields so easily, ancient technology might be similar (rings on either ships seem to use similar technology for example other tech might be similar, chairs also) dont know the sg-1 ep. but after 10000 years or watever length of time that has passed, they become redundant, the Ori who recently built there ships are gonna be packed with the latest stuff.


Now, if the war was between, the asgard and asurans, asgard would win, Easily. now you might say, why did they 'loose' against the MW Replicators, they used asgard technology thats why they struggled against the MW replicators. but the asurans use ancient tech, It might not be to shabby, but advancements happen over years, and currently, the asgard are the most advanced tech people. ignoring machines/ascended beings who cheat.


now i wasn't shocked, i was kinda expecting it, asgard weapons ripping through ancient shielding, they ripped through ori shielding easily enough, ancient shields are nothing to them. "


Yeah.

[Ouroboros]

See now you see how the most powerful weapon in Stargate isn't a ZPM or an Ori beam or an ancient drone it's Earth wank.

Team up with Earth and you get to play with the cheatcodes turned on to.

[Myles]

Isn't it really an Asgard wank?

[JSPuddlejumper]

^Yeah. Hives being the largest target (11 km), Asuran attack code, and the way the rusted run down Aurora in No Mans Land destroyed a Hive in under 30 seconds...One would expect 3-4 Hives to be destroyed in this battle.

Battle was of course very short, still Hives should have been destroyed.

Even assuming only (1/2) of the Aurora's made it to battle. Which would make sense, being spread out throughout the planet and the battle lasting around 2 minutes (McKay said 1 minute to get his stuff working).

100's of darts could have played some part, but if the Asurans have any shred of the brains, they would target the Hives first, then seeing the massive damage caused by Earth ships target them...

[SoulReaver]

now you might say, why did they 'loose' against the MW Replicators, they used asgard technology thats why they struggled against the MW replicators. but the asurans use ancient tech, It might not be to shabby, but advancements happen over years, and currently, the asgard are the most advanced tech people. ignoring machines/ascended beings who cheat.

you mean asgard military tech is more advanced than ancient military tech ?

iirc it took ancient tech to defeat the MW replicators (the ARW, which also happened to be the only weapon to which the replicators couldn't adapt)

the replicators did have asgard tech, but how did they acquire it in the 1st place ? by assimilating it, which means the replicators were able to overcome asgard defenses to be able to capture this tech, which means MW replicator tech was already more advanced than asgard tech even before they assimilated it

[Ouroboros]

Isn't it really an Asgard wank?

No, the actual Asguard weren't half as good with their own technology as the humanz frum urth. If they were that one pint sized O'neill at Camelot would have had all four Ori ships before anyone else even pulled a trigger.

That was a real asguard ship with real asguard power generators, real full sized shields and a heck of a lot bigger to boot.

The only ships that had any buisiness causing any damage to the Auroras in this were the hives and the ancient ship, since apparently the replicators decided using drones would be unfair for some stupid reason. We know the Wraith can kill them because they've done it before and the Aurora is an Aurora to. The 304s and the traveller's frigates should have really only been there to protect the heavy hitters and act as a distraction, or to help carry out the other side of the plan while the heavier warships did the actual fighting.

304s should not be killing ancient battleships in like 3 shots. I don't care if you bolted on weapons designed by the hand of almighty god himself. The fact is most of the ship is still drastically infearior to an asguard, wraith, replicator and probably traveller one. Where the hell are they getting the raw power needed to fire a weapon strong enough to drop an aurora in a single volly? It's one thing to have a powerful weapon but a powerful "plasma weapon" like they called it is only ever going to be as powerful as the powersource behind it, and we know Earth's powersources are just big naquada reactors and not particularly special.

[JSPuddlejumper]

^Not really. The Replicators were able to pierce shields (that were still functional) and take over ships...

That is a deadly Replicator ability, nothing to do with Replicator tech know how (which was great by the way, having taken most Asgard tech, and possibly some Ancient and who knows how many other races).

You noticed how the Asuran Replicators exited Aurora's, went right through meters of solid matter (which would be incredibly dense warship armor). Thankfully, the Asuran Replicators did not dispaly this ability to go through ships shields and had no Replicator block ships.

Did the MW Replicator ships have beam weapons? No. Did MW Replicator ships have white colored shields? No.

Thor said: O'Neill will be able to destroy Replicator controlled ships.

But that is temporarily until the O'Neills gets boarded.

Asgard being defeated by a far stronger and powerful enemy than the Ancients were. Asgard ships superior to the Ancients. Thus overall, Asgard military tech better than the Ancients.

[SoulReaver]

^ no afaik the Mw replicators didn't use beam weapons. also we've only seen them use their shield-piercing thingie once, and Thor said that the missile was composed of replicator blocks which were "more than likely" to punch through the shields, which they did

but we don't know if the MW replicators ever captured an ONeil class, remember Thor said that these ships were specifically designed to fight replicators, and we also know that the ONeils had a brand new type of shielding, and since shields are the 1st line of defense on a warship it's logical to think that those new shields were also designed to be efficient against replicator blocks
it's quite possible however that the replicators boarded an unshielded ONeil after having captured an asgard shipyard or something, in which case they would've been able to assimilate the latest asgard tech..


PS. and I doubt that the replicator shield-piercing trick would've worked on ancient shielding (eg. Atlantis)

[JSPuddlejumper]

I do not think they were able to capture an O'Neill.

But that does not mean they cannot pierce any shields made. The can be so small, so tiny as to pierce anything.

That is one of the problems in the real world about making nanites.

I do not know if the Asurans would ever use the Replicator shielding thing, they imitate the Ancients. But if they did, it would definitely pierce Atlantis shields.

"304s should not be killing ancient battleships in like 3 shots."

Yes they should be: 2 shots to take out shields, 1-2 to destroy. By the way, 2 shots destroyed an Aurora. Perspective: Ori ships made with help of Ascended beings could only survive 6-7 shots!

The O'Neill weapons were not doing any noticeable damage to the Ori ships. And anyway, it is a very human focused show, thus it was Earth against the universe. Thus the Asgard almost never ever got invovled (writers).

[SoulReaver]

well the missile blocks are small but they're still made of matter, a nanometer is still infinitely bigger than a zero-mass particle (like a photon) in which case many an energy weapon should also be able to go through shields even more easily

ori beams & ancients drones were also able to go through shields (ori beams punched through them a bit like the replicator missiles whereas ancient drones slipped through like ghosts) yet also know that sufficiently advanced shielding can block these weapons

[JSPuddlejumper]

^The Replicators are not limited by our knowledge of science. They can do many things, one must becoming near infinitely small (as well as large, Godzilla replicator of McKay).

Beam weapons do that by concentrated raw power. Drones, by some other strange way.

They do not posses the phase shifting ability of the Tollans.