AAARGH SG1 game + ethics

[neith4]

First of all folks I'ld like to apologize for not replying sooner - I'd had various medical appointments and tests, a heat wave and wind storm keeping me at home, a close relative having a minor stroke, a dispute with the local gallery, on top of the usual problems ... not majorly a fun week!

Re: but running around and just shooting up everything in sight is no game.

good someone raised a new point !!!

is a shooter game really that challenging?

for those who have not bothered to read the entire thread - if we must be a computer game I would prefer its a complex roleplaying strategy game.

to people who keep pointing out the military aspects of SG1 - while I appreciate the craft of a well choreographed fight - what draw me to watching SG1 was the sf aspects. I'm disappointed we havnt explored Gouald culture more and learnt what makes them function apart from the quest for power? Do they have poets musicians philosophers political dissidents apart form the tok'ra ? and I do feel sympathy for those hundreds of dead jaffa and marines and other target fodder! even if they are only fictional characters!

I dont have cable so I dont get the Discovery Channel unless they play cable programs on ABC (approx us equivalent = pbs)


Note to those who seem to have guilty consciences - I never said gamers or all gaming was evil and why are you presuming my ethics are solely biblical - actually they're more "Zen Catholic" - my ethical objections were based on the general interest of "Thou shalt not kill" which is common to many religious and philosophical traditions.

Think about why you are over-reacting?

(P.s. the best way to hassle a really irrational rabid fundamentalist is to learn basic logic and rhetoric and if they're bible bashing fundies - learn greek - and cite and explain the passage in its original context - literalist fundies give any religion a bad name and I'm not one! thank you !


As for accusations of preaching

preaching / teaching - define difference please

A question - how many gamers here can pass this following cultural literacy test about topics related to strategy and violence.

The 36 Strategems of War were developed by which culture?

Sun Tzu or Sun Zi wrote which classic?

The first historians in Europe came from Asia Minor and Athens -
name the wars they wrote about

homer wrote about the trojan war in which epic poem and what language?

who developed wing chun kung fu

which ww2 british military figure also collated a poetry anthology called other men's flowers

which indian religion encourages all its members to have martial arts for fitness and self-defense and provides many soldiers and policemen

adrenalin is which kind of chemical - please define

name a female anthropoligists who's studied agression in primates

vikings - really cool guys who explored and traded and developed technologies like shipbuilding - or just the dark age equivalent of biker gangs - discuss in one paragraph

something for you to think about ?

gotta go add xhtml to a web site - neith

[Madeleine]

Preaching / Teaching? Since you ask...

The first is pretty much what we all expect to read when someone feels strongly about something. I think most of us can ignore it or put up with it or argue it, as we choose.

The second is either helpful and interesting or else deeply patronising. It depends on whether what is being 'taught' is (a)wanted, (b)correct, (c)relevant and (d)objective.

[roswellgray]

First of all folks I'ld like to apologize for not replying sooner - I'd had various medical appointments and tests, a heat wave and wind storm keeping me at home, a close relative having a minor stroke, a dispute with the local gallery, on top of the usual problems ... not majorly a fun week!

Re: but running around and just shooting up everything in sight is no game.

good someone raised a new point !!!

is a shooter game really that challenging?

for those who have not bothered to read the entire thread - if we must be a computer game I would prefer its a complex roleplaying strategy game.

to people who keep pointing out the military aspects of SG1 - while I appreciate the craft of a well choreographed fight - what draw me to watching SG1 was the sf aspects. I'm disappointed we havnt explored Gouald culture more and learnt what makes them function apart from the quest for power? Do they have poets musicians philosophers political dissidents apart form the tok'ra ? and I do feel sympathy for those hundreds of dead jaffa and marines and other target fodder! even if they are only fictional characters!

I dont have cable so I dont get the Discovery Channel unless they play cable programs on ABC (approx us equivalent = pbs)


Note to those who seem to have guilty consciences - I never said gamers or all gaming was evil and why are you presuming my ethics are solely biblical - actually they're more "Zen Catholic" - my ethical objections were based on the general interest of "Thou shalt not kill" which is common to many religious and philosophical traditions.

Think about why you are over-reacting?

(P.s. the best way to hassle a really irrational rabid fundamentalist is to learn basic logic and rhetoric and if they're bible bashing fundies - learn greek - and cite and explain the passage in its original context - literalist fundies give any religion a bad name and I'm not one! thank you !


As for accusations of preaching

preaching / teaching - define difference please

A question - how many gamers here can pass this following cultural literacy test about topics related to strategy and violence.

The 36 Strategems of War were developed by which culture?

Sun Tzu or Sun Zi wrote which classic?

The first historians in Europe came from Asia Minor and Athens -
name the wars they wrote about

homer wrote about the trojan war in which epic poem and what language?

who developed wing chun kung fu

which ww2 british military figure also collated a poetry anthology called other men's flowers

which indian religion encourages all its members to have martial arts for fitness and self-defense and provides many soldiers and policemen

adrenalin is which kind of chemical - please define

name a female anthropoligists who's studied agression in primates

vikings - really cool guys who explored and traded and developed technologies like shipbuilding - or just the dark age equivalent of biker gangs - discuss in one paragraph

something for you to think about ?

gotta go add xhtml to a web site - neith

before I bother to answer any of your questions - why would I bother? - I can answer 3/4 of them from memory - but how would you know I didn't get the rest from the net or the library?

you seem to think that people that love FPS are uneducated morons - I dare say that many are very educated and working on scientific or related degree or have them already. I'm unimpressed about your ability to add xhtml also. So can many others - I can write some Perl, Java and C but so what?

The point you need to understand is that the same people that enjoy these games may also be familiar with your philosophical position and dismissed it already as invalid or insufficiently convincing to change their lifestyles - and are well aware of the hypocrisy that pervades these organized religions whether they be catholic, buddist or any other. Why don't you just state specifically how you think FPS games proved by a specific instance to reduce the moral character and conduct of someone and connect the individual/action to a specific conduct. Enough already.

[gatelover12]

First of all folks I'ld like to apologize for not replying sooner - I'd had various medical appointments and tests, a heat wave and wind storm keeping me at home, a close relative having a minor stroke, a dispute with the local gallery, on top of the usual problems ... not majorly a fun week!

Re: but running around and just shooting up everything in sight is no game.

good someone raised a new point !!!

is a shooter game really that challenging?

for those who have not bothered to read the entire thread - if we must be a computer game I would prefer its a complex roleplaying strategy game.

to people who keep pointing out the military aspects of SG1 - while I appreciate the craft of a well choreographed fight - what draw me to watching SG1 was the sf aspects. I'm disappointed we havnt explored Gouald culture more and learnt what makes them function apart from the quest for power? Do they have poets musicians philosophers political dissidents apart form the tok'ra ? and I do feel sympathy for those hundreds of dead jaffa and marines and other target fodder! even if they are only fictional characters!

I dont have cable so I dont get the Discovery Channel unless they play cable programs on ABC (approx us equivalent = pbs)


Note to those who seem to have guilty consciences - I never said gamers or all gaming was evil and why are you presuming my ethics are solely biblical - actually they're more "Zen Catholic" - my ethical objections were based on the general interest of "Thou shalt not kill" which is common to many religious and philosophical traditions.

Think about why you are over-reacting?

(P.s. the best way to hassle a really irrational rabid fundamentalist is to learn basic logic and rhetoric and if they're bible bashing fundies - learn greek - and cite and explain the passage in its original context - literalist fundies give any religion a bad name and I'm not one! thank you !


As for accusations of preaching

preaching / teaching - define difference please

A question - how many gamers here can pass this following cultural literacy test about topics related to strategy and violence.

The 36 Strategems of War were developed by which culture?

Sun Tzu or Sun Zi wrote which classic?

The first historians in Europe came from Asia Minor and Athens -
name the wars they wrote about

homer wrote about the trojan war in which epic poem and what language?

who developed wing chun kung fu

which ww2 british military figure also collated a poetry anthology called other men's flowers

which indian religion encourages all its members to have martial arts for fitness and self-defense and provides many soldiers and policemen

adrenalin is which kind of chemical - please define

name a female anthropoligists who's studied agression in primates

vikings - really cool guys who explored and traded and developed technologies like shipbuilding - or just the dark age equivalent of biker gangs - discuss in one paragraph

something for you to think about ?

gotta go add xhtml to a web site - neith

Look i'm a christian it says (approximate translation) don't MURDER (no I don't use that king james version, Jesus didn't speak like that if we have to translate at least make it easy to understand!) The bible talks about killing! stoning, crusafiction, torture, (revalation talks about torture) Just justified killing for crimes and sins. Now back to the point "is a shooter game really that challenging?" If it's well made yes. I find target practice very fun AND challenging. Running while shooting at a moving target that is firing at you is very chalenging! True it's not as fun as heading out to the shooting range but you can't always do that can you? Although I do prefer RTS (That's Real Time Strategy for you non-gamers) somthing about lording over little dudes/dudets and setting ambushes that just holds me in Age of mythology rules!

[gatelover12]

Why do you care so much about pixels generated by computer code and controled by AI that can't comprehend its own destruction neith? I agree with your sig though . Dang fantasy posing as scifi!

[gatelover12]

Also some games make me laugh (deer avenger seires) hmm better stop rambling now!

[Gothann]

Why do you care so much about pixels generated by computer code and controled by AI that can't comprehend its own destruction neith? I agree with your sig though . Dang fantasy posing as scifi!

That was my point exactly in the second post of the thread, this is a tactical operations game. You can't have tactical operations without wielding weapons or knocking out someone.

The last time I saw an ethics system in such a game, it totally ruined the game, until it was removed.

[LtNOWIS]

is a shooter game really that challenging?

for those who have not bothered to read the entire thread - if we must be a computer game I would prefer its a complex roleplaying strategy game.

to people who keep pointing out the military aspects of SG1 - while I appreciate the craft of a well choreographed fight - what draw me to watching SG1 was the sf aspects. I'm disappointed we havnt explored Gouald culture more and learnt what makes them function apart from the quest for power? Do they have poets musicians philosophers political dissidents apart form the tok'ra ? and I do feel sympathy for those hundreds of dead jaffa and marines and other target fodder! even if they are only fictional characters!

First of all, FPS games often challenging. There's more aspects of gameplay than, say, fighting games like mortal kombat. Also, FPS games require much more manual dexterity and reflex than most strategy games. There is a level of strategy, especially in a big team match, where outsmarting and outmanuevering the enemy is often more effective than simply killing every enemy you see.

I also agree that it's important to realize that, in movies and games and the like, living, sentient creatures are shown dying. In a WWII game where you gun down nazis, it's important to remember that in real life they'd have friends and family.

[Matt G]

First of all folks I'ld like to apologize for not replying sooner - I'd had various medical appointments and tests, a heat wave and wind storm keeping me at home, a close relative having a minor stroke, a dispute with the local gallery, on top of the usual problems ... not majorly a fun week!

Re: but running around and just shooting up everything in sight is no game.

good someone raised a new point !!!

is a shooter game really that challenging?

for those who have not bothered to read the entire thread - if we must be a computer game I would prefer its a complex roleplaying strategy game.

to people who keep pointing out the military aspects of SG1 - while I appreciate the craft of a well choreographed fight - what draw me to watching SG1 was the sf aspects. I'm disappointed we havnt explored Gouald culture more and learnt what makes them function apart from the quest for power? Do they have poets musicians philosophers political dissidents apart form the tok'ra ? and I do feel sympathy for those hundreds of dead jaffa and marines and other target fodder! even if they are only fictional characters!

I dont have cable so I dont get the Discovery Channel unless they play cable programs on ABC (approx us equivalent = pbs)


Note to those who seem to have guilty consciences - I never said gamers or all gaming was evil and why are you presuming my ethics are solely biblical - actually they're more "Zen Catholic" - my ethical objections were based on the general interest of "Thou shalt not kill" which is common to many religious and philosophical traditions.

Think about why you are over-reacting?

(P.s. the best way to hassle a really irrational rabid fundamentalist is to learn basic logic and rhetoric and if they're bible bashing fundies - learn greek - and cite and explain the passage in its original context - literalist fundies give any religion a bad name and I'm not one! thank you !


As for accusations of preaching

preaching / teaching - define difference please

A question - how many gamers here can pass this following cultural literacy test about topics related to strategy and violence.

The 36 Strategems of War were developed by which culture?

Sun Tzu or Sun Zi wrote which classic?

The first historians in Europe came from Asia Minor and Athens -
name the wars they wrote about

homer wrote about the trojan war in which epic poem and what language?

who developed wing chun kung fu

which ww2 british military figure also collated a poetry anthology called other men's flowers

which indian religion encourages all its members to have martial arts for fitness and self-defense and provides many soldiers and policemen

adrenalin is which kind of chemical - please define

name a female anthropoligists who's studied agression in primates

vikings - really cool guys who explored and traded and developed technologies like shipbuilding - or just the dark age equivalent of biker gangs - discuss in one paragraph

something for you to think about ?

gotta go add xhtml to a web site - neith

1. TPTB may have thought about doing stuff with Goa'uld musicians, philosophers, poets but couldn't find a way to fit that stuff in.

2. Guilty conscience? Dream on! I've never killed anyone outside VR and hope I never do so and I'm not a rapist. I set my own moral standards. Some say they're too high, some say they're too low - but you're not going to alter them by puffing yourself up like you're doing!

3. I'll PM the answers to your questions on the condition that it'll shut you up as far as this thread is concerned!

[Chevron_nine]

3. I'll PM the answers to your questions on the condition that it'll shut you up as far as this thread is concerned!

I don't think violence in video games is bad, but I think telling anyone on this board to shut up is way out of line. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions.

[Matt G]

Sorry - I just don't associate Gateworlders with high-and-mightyness on Neith's scale!

[neith4]

Could you please NOT repeat the entire posting in the reply?

Re: you seem to think that people that love FPS are uneducated morons
- I dare say that many are very educated and working on scientific or related degree or have them already.

Not the gamers I've encontered!

Once again I was not condemning all Role Playing Games just the excessively violent ones and the shooter / stalker / sniper ones

Re:
I'm unimpressed about your ability to add xhtml also. So can many others
- I can write some Perl, Java and C but so what?

hello i was not showing off just adding a chatty little detail about what's going on in my life beyond the forum ... so maybe you'ld like to help debug my xhtml when I'm finished?

Re: Why don't you just state specifically how you think FPS games proved by a specific instance to reduce the moral character and conduct of someone and connect the individual/action to a specific conduct. Enough already

please come to my netcafe and speak to the Unphilosophical individuals who think their rights as male teen gamers include swearing , using the f word in every other sentence, using the b - word, referring to characters and other players in a homophobic manner calling them ******s and campers etc -

I havnt meet any of these gamers who can take ethical complex positions to justify violent games OFFLINE and I wish some of them worked or played in our netcafe - the only one in the area - so I have no choice to go elsewhere - I would really like to be able to finish my coding without the constant distractions from foul mouthed male teens.

Particularly the two foul mouthed hoons who started punching each other so that I had to go help the admin desk person break up the fight

Try to remember not of us have cheapo discounted student access to the Web? Maybe in your neck of the woods all gamers are gentlemen an dscholars but they're not around here - around here I frequently have to do coding to a background noise of guys who think its cool to show off their limited vocabularies!

[neith4]

Re:

The second is either helpful and interesting or else deeply patronising. It depends on whether what is being 'taught' is (a)wanted, (b)correct, (c)relevant and (d)objective

Irony intended - I think I can generally manage three out of that quartet!

I just willnt say which three !

[neith4]

First of all, FPS games often challenging. There's more aspects of gameplay than, say, fighting games like mortal kombat. Also, FPS games require much more manual dexterity and reflex than most strategy games. There is a level of strategy, especially in a big team match, where outsmarting and outmanuevering the enemy is often more effective than simply killing every enemy you see.

I also agree that it's important to realize that, in movies and games and the like, living, sentient creatures are shown dying. In a WWII game where you gun down nazis, it's important to remember that in real life they'd have friends and family.

The guys around here must be playing different games !

They're sure not using strategy - sample this morning while waiting for net admin to log me on to do email and forum stuff i glanced around the room - groan - i hope none of these guys ever join the military - one of them was apparently driving a tank with the top hatch OPEN!!!

its just i'ld like to hear one of the local brats squeal WHAAAt
cos a message has flashed around the screen at the end of a game -
Congratulations you b- in real life you would have shoot so and so who had a family to support and was forced to enlist cos the lcoal warlord / terrorist movement / guerilla group said they've destroy his family or village if a certain quota of recruits wasnt provided

there's no larger perspective in these games!!!

It is possible to end war or at least limit it but to do so we have to accept cultural changes

doesnt anyone here know the story of ashoka - the indian king who got fed up with continual fighting and became a buddhist who build hostels hospitals roads etc instead? or the story of the burghers of calais - an english king was going to destroy that city until the burghers came out unarmed and risked being killed to pleas for a chance for surrender

point being too many games promote the idea only warriors are heros or deserve alpha male status -

sometimes the hero is the guy who saves lives !!!

you know uncool people like doctors nurses paramedics rescue workers

these should be the role models for games !

[neith4]

[QUOTE=Matt G]
but you're not going to alter them by puffing yourself up like you're doing!

recyt all - puffing up

guys and gals - I did not start a discussion on the ethics of shooter games for reasons of vanity or to try to make myself feel - as alleged - superior moralistic or whatever - its not about ego - mine or yours - its about getting people to think the issues - i'm painfully aware the person who tries to walk the talk and practise ethics isnt going to win any popularity stakes !!!

a little respect is good tho ... but unlikely