Changes to the Sam and Jack ship threads

[trinity3]

My short answer to that is "No!"

I agree with VSS, SJS93, Buc252 and Luvnjack, in that the two threads, although having similar purposes, are very different in style and quantity of posts. I think merging them wood cause a lot of problems.

I agree.

I think we also need to keep in mind why the thread was split in the first place. Has that changed, or is it likely to eventually happen again if the two threads are merged?

I think the point is, most of us who at all recently posted on the Discussion-Only thread, haven't. It's been dormant for over 3 months. If people want to keep it, it's not a problem from my perspective. I just see it as superfluous these days as many of the people who once posted there have found other venues for their discussions and aren't likely to make use of it any more.

But...if there's a need to keep it, then by all means, keep it. I just don't happen to think it makes much difference.

Again, agreed.

[AstraPerAspera]

Jenn: We still have the episode of the week. And to be honest i tried to go in-depth disccusion about it the other week. But it was a discussion with me and oh yeah... me!
So yeah the normal: omg i love Sam/Jack together. I think they are cute in this moment. So married stuff is always there in the ship family thread but discussion is hard to get.
Maybe we can use the discussion thread to actually discuss stuff. And I mean with maybe a smaller group, start an in-depth discussion there.
The real time viewing can sill be in the other group but more in-depth discussion can then be there. I am sure I am not the only one who loves in-depth discussion. And wished there was more discussion.
I mean that was the reason why that thread started to begin with...to get more discussion.
It is just an idea though...

I for once would love the discussion thread to be more there so I can discuss more and not to have to go through loads of pages of pictures and all that. Yes it is fun from time to time but sometimes all I want is to read some good discussion or some good post about Sam/Jack.

I won't be so bold as to speak for Jenn...and I don't think we want to turn this discussion into why several of us have left the family thread...but I think the issues remain the same, regardless of which thread we're on. Because of the need to keep the discussion--regardless of location--"safe" enough for the youngest of the young, the level of mature discussion is just as likely to be censored there as it was on the Family thread.

However...if others feel the need for it and find the parameters acceptable, then keep it as a separate thread. As one of the handful of people who'd even used it the past six months, I was merely offering my opinion on the matter.

[Skydiver]

What's happened in the past isn't completely the topic here. It's the future of these two threads. What we and you guys, need to know is, can these two threads successfully operate as one? Will those of you that love nothing but pictures adn videos and fluff be able to accept those that don't? Will those of you that have a more critical outlook handle those that are all hearts and flowers all the time? can discussion successfully happen in a thread where 10 posts in a row might be pic spam?

Are the threads better handled as two separate entities? If so, how do we differentiate between them? Is one more of a thunk and fluff thread while the other is a discussion thread?

would more discussion take place if more people knew of the thread? those that are trying to have discussion in the family thread, what would happen if you took those attempts to the discussion one? might you get more participants?

Share your opinions please.

[RepliCartertje]

I do see your point APA, and I understand it. And to be honest I might just be alone with this though, but I like to have discussions here, that is why I joined GW and I don't have the time to go to the LJ community. I mean it is true that the thread isn't being used anymore...
so yeah then just maybe merging them is the best plan...

[Luvnjoe]

If there were more people actively using it, I would go to the discussion thread. One nice thing about the Family thread is that someone is always around to chat about S/J with, even if you have to wade through the other stuff a bit. To have a discussion thread where...well, no one is discussing is kind of pointless. I, personally, don't want to post a question/speculation/observation and not have anyone answer it for several weeks. What a bummer!

I don't know how one would go about redirecting people to the discussion thread.

I'm not sure what my point was supposed to be...*sigh*

[Amalthea]

I, personally, don't post in the "Discussion Only" thread because for me, it really is about getting into the ship in depth. It's about pure analysis of the ship in a more objective way and since there hasn't been anything new for the ship since Continuum, for me, I don't find there is anything to talk about. Obviously other people do and I would never want to take that way of discussion away from them. I also think that thread will be more active after the next movie comes out. Or so I hope anyway!

The Family discussion thread allows for more options. People (and you know who you are ) can run in, post "SOOO MARRIED!" and run out and be perfectly happy. Or post picspam, or ship missions or other generally less than serious things and no one is disgruntled about it because it's expected in there. There are sometimes serious chats that spontaneously arise amidst the fun, of course, but it is more about the fun.

Therefore, because there is a major tone difference (in my opinion) in the two threads, merging them will make someone unhappy. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually.

[Petra]

Okay, I'm not sure if I have a right to talk about this..until Skydiver posed this question I had no idea there was a "discussion only" S/J thread, so I've never posted there. However, I'd love to! I love serious discussion and I actually left S/J ship family thread (a looong time ago, granted) because I grew tired of all the fluff and lack of in-depth discussion.
I'd love to have the 2 threads separated, as then I'd post in the discussion one Otherwise I think I'll pass. However, since I'm not an active participiant of any of S/J threads, my opinion probably doesn't matter that much..

[Rachel500]

My experience on the 'Family' thread is that actually it's intent was to get a balance - not merely to be there to be fluff and fun but also to balance that out with discussion where it was always possible to sometimes be critical of the decisions of TPTB or cynical of the lack of outright confirmation.

During the years I've been posting (and I know some have been posting for even longer than me), the 'Family' in general has tried to keep a balance usually helped that there was a good mix of posters - those who enjoyed the meaty - and yes, adult - discussion topics, those who went for artwork, some for games, etc - and those who simply wanted to comment 'so married!' and nothing else. There was a high degree of tolerance for all opinions both positive and negative - on all aspects of Stargate not just S/J - the only real thing not tolerated was the idea of anti-S/J. I've probably only seen maybe 3-4 instances where someone has responded completely disrespectfully.

My observation though is that over the time I've been on the 'Family' thread, there has been a steady decrease of people who had a negative opinion about the decisions of TPTB, or was very cynical about whether Sam/Jack would be confirmed, or was very negative about something else Stargate related (Vala, Mitchell, etc). Their views are in the main welcomed to be posted and the majority of respones still very respectful but I think the erosion has happened because when someone posts a view and the next 10 are all in support of the opposite way of thinking, even if the responses were respectful I think it's very hard for that original poster to consider that they 'belong' and to continue to feel comfortable about posting that contradictory opinion.

But I tend to think that's all to do with the make-up and opinions of the members posting at any given time not necessarily down to tolerance.

It's also the same with the level of discussions. Discussions come and go; there are times when the Family thread has been mostly discussion, times when there has been none at all. Again, it's hard if you like discussions to post something but then to see it ignored in favour of pics and squeeing - however, if you post something on a Discussion Only thread but then don't see it responded to for days - is that any better? I know I've stopped posting on other threads for both reasons (being ignored in favour of fluff and simply lack of activity on the thread).

Again, I tend to think the balance of discussion to fluff is all to do with the make-up and opinions of the members posting at any given time not necessarily down to tolerance.

I personally think merger and tolerance is possible on the 'Family' thread especially if the OT/chat is kept to an absolute minimum - it's still one of the friendliest places I know on the internet and I think the vast majority of the members are tolerant and easy going people. However, it probably will not be acceptable to those who really cannot stand trawling through OT/pics/etc in order to get to a discussion.

[Rachel-Kree]

One suggestion that has been put forth is
Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Family Fluff and Discussion
Jack O'Neill/Sam Carter Ship Discussion

i usually don't like to voice my opinion ... i'm always lurking around but i'm A S/J shipper from the family, i tell you this: i don't have problems on merging the threads but i personally didn't liked the name 'Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Family Fluff and Discussion' i think it is a great ideia to merge the discussion and the family thread since we're all about the same ship but some ppl like more to make artworks and express more the ship than others and etc..., this is one of the differences i see there in the discussion thread wich they like something more 'serious' i think if the threads gone merged will be a good thing but also we must learn on how to live with the differences of each other and i guess there is always a way to voice your opinion without hurting someone although it is really hard to give up your opinion to agree with someone with a different thought... but i would like to see the opinion of the ppl of the 'dicussion' thread if they agree with it ... and i must agree with Jess in one point: if there is a thread for discussion only, i don't think they are going to like something like picspam, poems, fics, off topic related news and all... but still everything need to have a conversation... sorry if any of this didn't make any sense so basically i'm on to merging the threads if everyone agrees to live in 'peace' what i think it is a very hard matter.

[TameFarrar]

Just to give some history on both of these threads. The S&J Family thread has over 12 archived threads with over 1000 posts each and one archived thread of over 37200 posts. The thread you all post in now is the 14th creation of the S&J Family thread.

The discussion thread is on its second creation and has one archived of over 10000 posts. So there is actually a lot of history for the Family thread as well as the discussion thread that many may not have been a part of but there are still a good majority of members that were part of those years

[Regularamanda]

My only complaint when it all comes down to it is that the discussion thread is more of a discussion and if these two threads merge, either it will be discussion or it will be picspam/vids/fics, and I think if it merges one of them will be lost. We do have discussion on the family thread but it moves so fast that it's hard to keep up, so either a merged thread will be how the family thread is now or it's going to be all discussion and I really think there needs to be two threads to keep both aspects of both threads alive.

[Amalthea]

Just to give some history on both of these threads. The S&J Family thread has over 12 archived threads with over 1000 posts each and one archived thread of over 37200 posts. The thread you all post in now is the 14th creation of the S&J Family thread.

The discussion thread is on its second creation and has one archived of over 10000 posts. So there is actually a lot of history for the Family thread as well as the discussion thread that many may not have been a part of but there are still a good majority of members that were part of those years

Thank you! I think that is very interesting!

It seems to me that there is a long history of needing two threads. Although I imagine the Discussion Only thread was more active when the show was actually still on.

[VSS]

Will those of you that have a more critical outlook handle those that are all hearts and flowers all the time?

Speaking for myself only, hearts and flowers are not a problem. Running OT is a problem. However, I'm not sure what can be done about that. It's the ship FAMILY thread, I guess three pages of "Happy ST. Patrick's Day" salutations goes with the territory.

Can discussion successfully happen in a thread where 10 posts in a row might be pic spam?

Yes, if the people who want to discuss it are around.

Are the threads better handled as two separate entities? If so, how do we differentiate between them? Is one more of a thunk and fluff thread while the other is a discussion thread?

Yes, don't know, and yes.

Would more discussion take place if more people knew of the thread?

Hard to say. There has to be something to discuss. For instance, there was an entirely separate thread for shippers to discuss Continuum and that worked very nicely so we didn't have to use spoilers. That had some very worthwhile discussions, and drew in many people who are not regulars at the Ship Family Thread.

Those that are trying to have discussion in the family thread, what would happen if you took those attempts to the discussion one? might you get more participants?

The past few times that I tried to use the discussion thread, we did get some new participants who do not visit the Ship Family thread, which I think is valuable.


I'm just tossing this out there, but I wonder if those shippers who have escaped to LJ would want to consider running the discussion thread instead? I personally would like that a lot, and it would be a good thing for GW.

[JenniferJF]

I'm just tossing this out there, but I wonder if those shippers who have escaped to LJ would want to consider running the discussion thread instead? I personally would like that a lot, and it would be a good thing for GW.

Personally, I would love to be able to have real discussions about the show and the characters on GW again. However, we have to keep the conversations suitable for children or young teens on GW, so I personally dont think I can comfortably discuss what is, essentially, an adult topic within those constraints. Interestingly, this is sort of what drove many of us to discuss the show only on S/J threads in the first place - that feeling that we can't separate one aspect of the character's personalities from the others and any discussion which is forced to treat 'the ship' as nonexistent is necessarily incomplete. Similarly, any discussion forced to stay away from adult topics is also incomplete. IMHO, of course.

Hence the move to LJ where we can specify conversations may be adult in nature.

So, because GW is meant to be inclusive, I can't see many of us who left coming back to a separate thread. Which is why, since many of us were common posters on the discussion thread, a separate thread may no longer be necessary. OTOH, as you and several others who were common posters on the discussion thread believe you'd still like a place to discuss, it probably does make sense to keep it around.

And I do lurk there still, while I don't on the faster moving S/J thread, so if there is a topic which catches my interest and which is age appropriate, I might join in. Which rather speaks in defense of keeping the thread alive

[VSS]

Spoiler:

Personally, I would love to be able to have real discussions about the show and the characters on GW again. However, we have to keep the conversations suitable for children or young teens on GW, so I personally dont think I can comfortably discuss what is, essentially, an adult topic within those constraints. Interestingly, this is sort of what drove many of us to discuss the show only on S/J threads in the first place - that feeling that we can't separate one aspect of the character's personalities from the others and any discussion which is forced to treat 'the ship' as nonexistent is necessarily incomplete. Similarly, any discussion forced to stay away from adult topics is also incomplete. IMHO, of course.

Hence the move to LJ where we can specify conversations may be adult in nature.

So, because GW is meant to be inclusive, I can't see many of us who left coming back to a separate thread. Which is why, since many of us were common posters on the discussion thread, a separate thread may no longer be necessary. OTOH, as you and several others who were common posters on the discussion thread believe you'd still like a place to discuss, it probably does make sense to keep it around.

And I do lurk there still, while I don't on the faster moving S/J thread, so if there is a topic which catches my interest and which is age appropriate, I might join in. Which rather speaks in defense of keeping the thread alive

Well, thanks for your reply. I had no idea what was going on since I've been away for a while. Then I came back and half the regulars were gone!