How Did Scott Ever Pass Military Training?

[kwlafayette]

Instead of relieving Young and assuming command, he ran to mommy to tell what daddy did and ultimately did nothing. Training did not work IMO!

Those were exceptional circumstance and exceptional measures were needed to ensure the safety of everyone onboard. Like Young said, those who made the rules didn't foresaw such circumstances.


Thats bullcrap, maybe with everyday base life but in a combat situation it doesnt make sense at all. If you receive an order to hold a key position but it will put a lot of your men at risk, you wont be happy about it but you'll understand it needs to be done, and you will follow orders. If you dont you risk everyone lives.



Well i havent see TJ behave like Scott, have you? I wonder why? If anyone is in a position to butt head with Young about his decisions, its her. Carrying his offspring kinda put her in a special position, dont you think? Must be the hormones (sarcasme).

This is absolutely key. A lot of people don't realize what the most important thing is in the military. It is not the guns, or the high tech bombs; it is the discipline. Without discipline, all other advantages are moot. Discipline is the key element that allowed Mitchell Paige to hold that hill at Guadalcanal.

[Lt. Jeffer]

Okay, I asked my father who's a Commander in the US Navy. He offered this insight...

If the prisoner is a Prisoner of War, then they are protected by the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Conventions have been ratified in the US, specifically the torture part. Lieutenant Scott would have a moral obligation to report it for it's illegal.

If the prisoner is more like a detainee...then things are different.

A detainee is someone whom the CIA designates as promoting terrorism. They are not currently covered under the Geneva Conventions, however, there are several arguments going on right now in court over this very thing.

If the person is a detainee, then torture is allowed if authorized by the CIA.

(I've not see the show so we'll assume that the person is a detainee.)

If they are a detainee, then Scott has absolutely no right to question the orders of a Colonel or a General. No officer would be stupid enough to do so, and none would have become an officer with that kind of attitude. He is sworn to uphold the orders of those above him.

But he also harmed Rush who is not an detainee

[Major_Griff]

The point isn't whether or not the order was illegal, the point is that Young gave Scott no reason to think he was doing anything but torturing and/or murdering Telford. Clearly in hindsight, venting the atmo was to unwash Telford's brain similar to when they used the Rite of Mal Sharaan on Teal'c. Young shouldn't have to stop an explain his orders, but he needs to foster more trust among his underlings so they have no reason to think he is doing anything but the right thing.

[Blackhole]

I think it was necessary to keep both Scott and Wray in the dark to preserve the theater of the threat that Young was presenting to Telford. If he had told them then Telford would likely have picked up on their lack of fear and it would have undermined what he was attempting. Young probably knew this and did what was necessary. Afterward, I think it would have been good to have explained this to Scott rather than chastising him. It is Scott's duty to do what he thinks is right and the simple fact remains is that Young has an anger problem and did marooned Rush on the planet. Ironically it is probably this fact that Telford was aware of that made Young's threat believable and so effective.

[kymeric]

How many people do you know who are really cut out for their jobs? 1 maybe 2 out of hundreds? Work is work, he was 2nd IC on a base noone thought was gonna work. That like being mad the assistant manager at wendys cant win the Alamo. lulz

[Sami_]

Can someone please tell me what the order was that Young gave Scott that he disobeyed?

He displayed that he was uncomfortable with the situation but I didn't see him refuse a direct order.

[Zkyire]

Thing is though, Scott's making a habit of questioning or ignoring Young's orders. Hardly the sort of actions which the Captain of Team Young should be displaying.

To be fair, Young, when on Earth, is regularly talking with O'Neill (his superior officer) in O'Neill's office. Young makes a point and then walks away without being dismissed. Often.

In this instance, Scott had every right to question him. But to be fair to Young, he does give everyone a lot of leeway most of the time.

[Zkyire]

Can someone please tell me what the order was that Young gave Scott that he disobeyed?

He displayed that he was uncomfortable with the situation but I didn't see him refuse a direct order.

Young was asking if Scott would only obey him if he were to tell Young every little detail of every plan.

SCOTT: What in the hell was that?

YOUNG: What in the hell was that, sir.

SCOTT: All you had to do was tell me!

YOUNG: I was keeping you out of it.

SCOTT: You didn't have to. If I had known that killing him and bringing him back was the only way to beat that brainwashing technology I would have been behind you 100%.

YOUNG: You'll follow orders so long as I explain everything to you beforehand?

SCOTT: No, sir.. that is not what I meant--

YOUNG: Good because if it was; we'd have a problem, lieutenant. Do we have a problem?

SCOTT: .. no sir.

YOUNG: Good, because now is not the time for that.

[kymeric]

Young is kinda like Odin the all father by now, or hes developing into him...

Sorry too much Thor comic books ><

[brian_177]

If the person is a detainee, then torture is allowed if authorized by the CIA.

(I've not see the show so we'll assume that the person is a detainee.)

If they are a detainee, then Scott has absolutely no right to question the orders of a Colonel or a General. No officer would be stupid enough to do so, and none would have become an officer with that kind of attitude. He is sworn to uphold the orders of those above him.

Torture is one thing. I was totes on board when they were just beating Telford up. Killing him is something completely different.

[PG15]

Can someone please tell me what the order was that Young gave Scott that he disobeyed?

He displayed that he was uncomfortable with the situation but I didn't see him refuse a direct order.

That's a good question. The only order that Scott seems to have disobeyed was telling Wray everything when Young told him not to tell anyone about this.

But after scanning through the transcripts for "Subversion", I found no such order.

Look where that sort of thing got Rush: bashed, left to die, abducted and tortured by aliens. Scott's got off lightly.

Oh come on. You're really equating Scott's verbal questioning of Young's order with Rush's frame of Young for murder? Hey that rhymes.

[wargrafix]

No officer has the right to order torture. It is the duty of another officer to put a stop to such actions.

Scott may be young, but still a bit more resolve than that weakling Young. Even Young knows what a waste he is.

[brian_177]

That's a good question. The only order that Scott seems to have disobeyed was telling Wray everything when Young told him not to tell anyone about this.

I think people are interchanging the terms "disobeying an order" and "insubordination". Now, I think these are two separate offenses under military law, meaning the people saying he disobeyed an order are wrong, but they may very well be treated as the same crime.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I think people are interchanging the terms "disobeying an order" and "insubordination". Now, I think these are two separate offenses under military law, meaning the people saying he disobeyed an order are wrong, but they may very well be treated as the same crime.

insubordination -I think that's more likely to fit Scott's actual actions

[EllieVee]

But he also harmed Rush who is not an detainee

And the POW/detainee difference is simply weasel wording to allow a person to be held for an indefinite period without trial.

Oh come on. You're really equating Scott's verbal questioning of Young's order with Rush's frame of Young for murder? Hey that rhymes.

Oh, what Young has done to Rush is far worse but it's an evolution. Look at how he threatened Wray in Light.