How Did Scott Ever Pass Military Training?

[PG15]

True, another proof Scott is a bad officer. There are regulations in place to give him the authority to relieve Young of his post. But being the officer with no spine that he is, he chickens out and let it go. Which is a good thing cause he clearly doesnt have a clue what it takes to be an officer in the first place.

Wait, so you begrudge Scott for questioning Young's orders AND for not relieving him on account of those questionable orders? Either he obeys the orders absolutely, or he relieves the one giving said orders? Those are the only options open to him? Really?

Man, your military is pretty messed up. So as a subordinate, if I think a superior officer is doing something illegal, I can just relieve him of command and he can't do anything about it? Seems to me that that way lies madness.

And how in the heck did the LA manage to engineer Destiny lock breaking devices that worked perfectly, without access to any Destiny locks for testing? They just somehow managed to do it using the verbal description of one guy who had been on the ship via the stones a couple of times?

Why not? There appears to be enough information flowing back and forth between Homeworld Command and Destiny for the former to develop a plan to try to dial the gate while Destiny was in a star, so clearly some technical info is being transfered.

[EllieVee]

Since when a superior officers has to explain their decisions to those under their command?

Never, thats when. Doesnt matter if you agree our not, you obey your orders. If not, 2 weeks in the brig for insubordination or resign and be a civilian.

How Scott became an officer is beyond me.

Since the decision that certain orders were illegal.

[Tuvok]

Thing is though, Scott's making a habit of questioning or ignoring Young's orders. Hardly the sort of actions which the Captain of Team Young should be displaying.

You know, I would be entirely ready to back Scott on being the voice of reason. On being the voice of better Angels. That was untill Faith, when he ditched his post to protect less then ten civies on the Planet. That was strike two, strike three was instead of manning up about it was to whine to his superiour office that they should have staayyeed because they were meaannntt toooo...

Thanks writers, with one episode to me you turned Scott into a guy who ditches his post and complains to his superiour officer that they should have stayed on a planet ''because they were meant too.''

Nice going.

[meo3000]

Scott is a 1st Lt with little to no experience in the Stargate program, questioning orders from a Colonel, thats FOUR ranks above him!!!

I would understand your point if he was a major or a Lt Col. Scott voiced his concerned when the interrogation began, good for him, duly noted, now shut it and follow your orders. IF Young wants to revisits said concerns, he will do so at a time of his choosing, preferably after the crisis has been resolved, and in private.

Do you see Greer constantly questioning Scotts orders? No, why? Cause he knows his place and he knows Scott probably knows better anyway, why? Cause Scott is its superior officer and he respect and understand the chain of command.

Whats the point of ranks if youre gonna question every orders. Cause thats what Scott has been doing.

[Lahela]

Some folks seem determined not to read this post back on page 1, written by a member of the military...

I've been quick on this forum to point out that military personnel may feel the need to resort to torture, and in my opinion it is sometimes necessary. But it is also necessary for officers to make sure they are happy with the orders they are following. It is absolutely the right thing for officers to question seniors over morally questionable acts, to not do so leads to a culture of blind obedience, but can lead to a litany of war crimes, and in the long run, people who follow blindly and have no initiative of their own are pretty useless to the military.

Aside from that it is Scott's duty not to follow and be complicit in illegal orders. Where interrogation ends and torture begins can be blurry, but it appeared for a minute that Young had killed Telford, something that there is no leeway in, it would be an illegal act under military law.

Scott did exactly what he should have done. Young failed to inform him what was going on, and appeared to be about to commit an illegal act, which Scott is duty bound to stop him. Scott's training seemed to be working perfectly.

[Coronach]

Scott is a 1st Lt with little to no experience in the Stargate program, questioning orders from a Colonel, thats FOUR ranks above him!!!

This means nothing aboard Destiny where Scott was given 2nd-in-command status by Young when they arrived. Not only that, but he and TJ are the only 1st lieutenants on board, and every military officer is a lower rank than them. If Scott doesn't question said orders, who do you propose should?

Do you see Greer constantly questioning Scotts orders? No, why? Cause he knows his place and he knows Scott probably knows better anyway, why? Cause Scott is its superior officer and he respect and understand the chain of command.

What has Scott ever done that could be considered "illegal" and thus warrant Greer questioning him?

As per a lot of your other points, see Lahela's post above mine.

[EllieVee]

This means nothing aboard Destiny where Scott was given 2nd-in-command status by Young when they arrived. Not only that, but he and TJ are the only 1st lieutenants on board, and every military officer is a lower rank than them. If Scott doesn't question said orders, who do you propose should?

Look where that sort of thing got Rush: bashed, left to die, abducted and tortured by aliens. Scott's got off lightly.

[meo3000]

Instead of relieving Young and assuming command, he ran to mommy to tell what daddy did and ultimately did nothing. Training did not work IMO!

Those were exceptional circumstance and exceptional measures were needed to ensure the safety of everyone onboard. Like Young said, those who made the rules didn't foresaw such circumstances.

But it is also necessary for officers to make sure they are happy with the orders they are following.

Thats bullcrap, maybe with everyday base life but in a combat situation it doesnt make sense at all. If you receive an order to hold a key position but it will put a lot of your men at risk, you wont be happy about it but you'll understand it needs to be done, and you will follow orders. If you dont you risk everyone lives.

he and TJ are the only 1st lieutenants on board, and every military officer is a lower rank than them. If Scott doesn't question said orders, who do you propose should?

Well i havent see TJ behave like Scott, have you? I wonder why? If anyone is in a position to butt head with Young about his decisions, its her. Carrying his offspring kinda put her in a special position, dont you think? Must be the hormones (sarcasme).

[EllieVee]

Instead of relieving Young and assuming command, he ran to mommy to tell what daddy did and ultimately did nothing. Training did not work IMO!

Um, what are you on about? Are you talking about Scott telling Wray? Dude, she was already there.

Those were exceptional circumstance and exceptional measures were needed to ensure the safety of everyone onboard. Like Young said, those who made the rules didn't foresaw such circumstances.

And Young could have avoided half that angst by consulting the key people in his ever increasing poor command. It's yet another stupid decision by an incompetent commander. It's a wonder most of them aren't dead.

[meo3000]

I give up. Let Wray run the ship into the ground, or a blackhole. Whatever.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Scott is a 1st Lt with little to no experience in the Stargate program, questioning orders from a Colonel, thats FOUR ranks above him!!!

I would understand your point if he was a major or a Lt Col. Scott voiced his concerned when the interrogation began, good for him, duly noted, now shut it and follow your orders. IF Young wants to revisits said concerns, he will do so at a time of his choosing, preferably after the crisis has been resolved, and in private.

Do you see Greer constantly questioning Scotts orders? No, why? Cause he knows his place and he knows Scott probably knows better anyway, why? Cause Scott is its superior officer and he respect and understand the chain of command.

Whats the point of ranks if youre gonna question every orders. Cause thats what Scott has been doing.

First off, I completely agree that a soldier, any soldier, has the duty to question illegal orders. But I also happen to agree with your point about experience, as in, Scott having little to none. I'll have to look through transcipts but did Scott ever ask what Young was doing or did he just assume Young was killing him? Maybe that doesn't matter. In any case, given Scott's expression when Young revived Telford, I'm betting he wished he asked and wished he trusted.

You know, I would be entirely ready to back Scott on being the voice of reason. On being the voice of better Angels. That was untill Faith, when he ditched his post to protect less then ten civies on the Planet. That was strike two, strike three was instead of manning up about it was to whine to his superiour office that they should have staayyeed because they were meaannntt toooo...

Thanks writers, with one episode to me you turned Scott into a guy who ditches his post and complains to his superiour officer that they should have stayed on a planet ''because they were meant too.''

Nice going.

It's from this sort of thing that I'm of the belief that Scott might be too soft for what he's doing.

Instead of relieving Young and assuming command, he ran to mommy to tell what daddy did and ultimately did nothing. Training did not work IMO!

Those were exceptional circumstance and exceptional measures were needed to ensure the safety of everyone onboard. Like Young said, those who made the rules didn't foresaw such circumstances.


Thats bullcrap, maybe with everyday base life but in a combat situation it doesnt make sense at all. If you receive an order to hold a key position but it will put a lot of your men at risk, you wont be happy about it but you'll understand it needs to be done, and you will follow orders. If you dont you risk everyone lives.



Well i havent see TJ behave like Scott, have you? I wonder why? If anyone is in a position to butt head with Young about his decisions, its her. Carrying his offspring kinda put her in a special position, dont you think? Must be the hormones (sarcasme).

I agree that in a combat situation there are going to be orders you don't want to follow. I also think that Young's got better things to do with his time than hold Scott's hand through every decision. Fallout from this should be interesting.

[brian_177]

I'm with Scott on this one. It wasn't a lawful order, so he's under no obligation to follow it. I'm kinda getting tired of Young ruling by iron fist and only caring about military protocol when it suits him.

The only thing gained by not telling everyone watching exactly why he was letting Telford suffocate was to provide suspense for the audience, and by doing so alienate those crew members in the show. Had Young told Scott what the plan was, I guarantee you he would have backed his play 100%. Heck, even Wray might have seen the sense in it.

[jelgate]

I'm with Scott on this one. It wasn't a lawful order, so he's under no obligation to follow it. I'm kinda getting tired of Young ruling by iron fist and only caring about military protocol when it suits him.

The only thing gained by not telling everyone watching exactly why he was letting Telford suffocate was to provide suspense for the audience, and by doing so alienate those crew members in the show. Had Young told Scott what the plan was, I guarantee you he would have backed his play 100%. Heck, even Wray might have seen the sense in it.

Was it? O'Neill seemed to have given Young clearence to do it in Suberversion

[Arjannl]

Was it? O'Neill seemed to have given Young clearance to do it in Suberversion

It may even be from the president or Emperor of the Known Universe. If an order is illegal, and you decide as officer to follow it, you are accountable for it's repercussions in court.

[Alexandria7]

Okay, I asked my father who's a Commander in the US Navy. He offered this insight...

If the prisoner is a Prisoner of War, then they are protected by the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Conventions have been ratified in the US, specifically the torture part. Lieutenant Scott would have a moral obligation to report it for it's illegal.

If the prisoner is more like a detainee...then things are different.

A detainee is someone whom the CIA designates as promoting terrorism. They are not currently covered under the Geneva Conventions, however, there are several arguments going on right now in court over this very thing.

If the person is a detainee, then torture is allowed if authorized by the CIA.

(I've not see the show so we'll assume that the person is a detainee.)

If they are a detainee, then Scott has absolutely no right to question the orders of a Colonel or a General. No officer would be stupid enough to do so, and none would have become an officer with that kind of attitude. He is sworn to uphold the orders of those above him.