Too Powerful - Least Credible are the Ori

[MarshAngel]

so we kill the ori, leaving the priors powerless adn trigger countless bloody civil wars across untold thousands of planets but just shut our eyes to the carnage cause, you know, it's over there and doesn't concern us?

We de-god the poor people and then just let them fend for themselves and sort it out amongst themselves


real responsible

I don't know that killing the Ori would automatically mean civil war. Humans are adaptable. What I gathered from Crusade is that the people do not have immediate contact with the Ori. The Ori do not feed and clothe them or take care of their daily needs; in many ways they are just like God on Earth. The priors, robbed of any real power but very much indoctrinated would likely compensate by believing the Ori to be testing their faith. There are many religious leaders who lose their faith but they continue to lead, and direct other people with even more zeal than they did when they believed.

I don't think things would change much. They'd continue to pray, continue to believe until someone steps up and tests the theory... in other words they wouldn't be stuck in middle ages they'd grow up just like people on Earth have with all the growing pains involved. Change is usually painful, doesn't mean it should be avoided.

I think the concept of the Ori was a good one in theory. I like the general idea but I agree that they don't do good things for the show. They are too powerful to beaten by anything other than an equal power, in which case this isn't about humans at all and seeing as how we're the center of the show...not good. Defeating them will likely end the show and if it doesn't, then the show will lose credibility in the process.

[Lokii]

The whole religious aspect of the Ori bothers me. I have to agree with those who think it is a bad theme to introduce.

[Auralis]

so we kill the ori, leaving the priors powerless adn trigger countless bloody civil wars across untold thousands of planets but just shut our eyes to the carnage cause, you know, it's over there and doesn't concern us?

We de-god the poor people and then just let them fend for themselves and sort it out amongst themselves


real responsible

Right, would be better to chuck a dakara style weapon through the supergate after the ori killer weapon. Problem solved

[Skydiver]

I don't know that killing the Ori would automatically mean civil war. Humans are adaptable. What I gathered from Crusade is that the people do not have immediate contact with the Ori. The Ori do not feed and clothe them or take care of their daily needs; in many ways they are just like God on Earth. The priors, robbed of any real power but very much indoctrinated would likely compensate by believing the Ori to be testing their faith. There are many religious leaders who lose their faith but they continue to lead, and direct other people with even more zeal than they did when they believed.

.

it may not automatically and immediately lead to civil war everywhere, but it will in some places. there are planets that have frequent visits by the priors. we've seen this. and we've also seen the 'petty dictator tosses in with the ori to gain power' characters.

well what happens when they lose their man behind the curtain and have to stand on their own? they'll be defeated. but as in many uprisings, only time will tell if the new rulers are better or worse than the Ori.

take the Canon from demons for example. he had a bit of power and used it to corruptly rule the town. Or take Pyrus from Need. he pretended to be a goa'uld to rule and enslave his people.
there isno easy fix it or cure for this. only decades and decades of petty cleanup and things will get tons worse before they get better. defeating the ori - which is somethign we mere mortals can't do, we'll stand aside while the other super powers do it for us - is going to do little more than destroy the infrastructure of countless thousands of planets

i'm not saying that the Ori are good, they're not. I"m just saying that we have so bitten of more than we can chew and that there is no way to win this.

[Formerhost]

The whole religious aspect of the Ori bothers me. I have to agree with those who think it is a bad theme to introduce.

The opposite. It's fascinating theme to introduce, but it's extremely difficult one and it has to be done well. The beginning (season 9) did quite well, let's see what's next...

[JUNIOR]

so we kill the ori, leaving the priors powerless adn trigger countless bloody civil wars across untold thousands of planets but just shut our eyes to the carnage cause, you know, it's over there and doesn't concern us?

We de-god the poor people and then just let them fend for themselves and sort it out amongst themselves


real responsible

BINGO!!! I'm sorry maybe I'm just being a very cold hearted person because its SciFi and not real life, but I wouldn’t give a rats a** about some people in a far off galaxy that given the chance, would kill me, everyone I care about, and anyone else that’s from where I'm from. They don't necessarily have to be left to fend for themselves one some back water planet. We can repay them for all of their hard work and effort in trying to defeat us by sending some of Ba’als clones and a fleet of Ha'taks over there through the Supergate. To put it as I would picture O’Neill saying it (If he felt this way): “They'll be slaves, and I'll be glad!" They think we’re evil; then let’s get a little evil!!! Hows that for responsible!! Just my evil a** opinion about the whole Ori worshipper situation, though feel free to totally disagree with me! P.S. lol, j/k

[MarshAngel]

BINGO!!! I'm sorry maybe I'm just being a very cold hearted person because its SciFi and not real life, but I wouldn’t give a rats a** about some people in a far off galaxy that given the chance, would kill me, everyone I care about, and anyone else that’s from where I'm from. They don't necessarily have to be left to fend for themselves one some back water planet. We can repay them for all of their hard work and effort in trying to defeat us by sending some of Ba’als clones and a fleet of Ha'taks over there through the Supergate. To put it as I would picture O’Neill saying it (If he felt this way): “They'll be slaves, and I'll be glad!" They think we’re evil; then let’s get a little evil!!! Hows that for responsible!! Just my evil a** opinion about the whole Ori worshipper situation, though feel free to totally disagree with me! P.S. lol, j/k

I agree with you somewhat. Their gods are trying to kill us. If killing their gods prevents that, fine. I don't think we have any responsibility to them for any civil wars or complexities that may result. They are responsible for their own reactions and the actions that result. It's kind of like grabbing you kid out of the path out of oncoming traffic and being held responsible for the death of everyone else standing in the path.

[Skydiver]

it's more along the line of...blowing up a hospital's power plant then saying that it's not your fault that all those people inside died because the machines don't work anymore

we have a lot of evidence that the Ancients were far from the nice sweet glowing aliens they are put forth to be. they experimented on beings, made a drug geared towards killing a whole species, yet we're blindly siding with them and we have no real proof that the Ori are evil. yeah, they kill whole planets that don't worship them. that is definitely not nice. yet it's no different from teh human philosophy of 'if you don't have any tech to share, to heck with you' attitude.

i'm not saying that the ori are good, but i'm saying that we have little more than one side of the story and daniel adn orlin's word that they're not ascending folks.

we are so far in over our heads that it's not even funny. we're meddling with stuff we shouldn't be meddling with. we are desperately trying to put the genie back in the bottle that daniel and vala loosed, and there's no way to do it.

[MarshAngel]

it's more along the line of...blowing up a hospital's power plant then saying that it's not your fault that all those people inside died because the machines don't work anymore

I don't agree with that analogy because it's clear that they aren't dependent on the Ori. There is nothing the Ori give them that they cannot give themselves. And making us responsible for them going to war against each other is not giving them any responsibility for themselves.

we have a lot of evidence that the Ancients were far from the nice sweet glowing aliens they are put forth to be. they experimented on beings, made a drug geared towards killing a whole species, yet we're blindly siding with them and we have no real proof that the Ori are evil. yeah, they kill whole planets that don't worship them. that is definitely not nice. yet it's no different from teh human philosophy of 'if you don't have any tech to share, to heck with you' attitude.

The ancients are only as nice as we are because they are us with more tech. Sure they've been put on a pedestal but they are just as flawed as we are and the writers have a problem because they have to bring them down several notches to be relateable. We have this dream that in the future we're going to turn into wonderful loving, peaceful people. I don't think so. So they experiment on living beings, so do we, so do the Asgard etc.

i'm not saying that the ori are good, but i'm saying that we have little more than one side of the story and daniel adn orlin's word that they're not ascending folks.

There is no opportunity to sit on the fence and say well, we don't know which one of you is the bad guy in this war we're having. We trust in the ancients because well.... they're not trying to kill us. We aren't going to start worshipping them as if they're great and perfect or anything but we can't exactly back out of this one.

we are so far in over our heads that it's not even funny. we're meddling with stuff we shouldn't be meddling with. we are desperately trying to put the genie back in the bottle that daniel and vala loosed, and there's no way to do it.

We are over our heads but it's too late to fix that within the contect of the plot or for the show.

[Franklyn Blaze]

The Ori remind me of the Dominion in Star Trek: DS9, a mass of individual, yet collective, evil bad guys ... be it the 'great link' of shapeshifters or a bunch of ascended beings ...

You know who were the best villains in SG-1? The Aschen. Sinister, but you'd never know it because of all the cool tech they openly provided ... then, when you realize you're in deep doo doo, it's too late, because they got you.

PS I thought they were going to make the Aschen arc a trilogy. I'm still waiting for the third episode.

Too bad you can't make the Ori sterile.

Totally Agree 100%

[AutumnDream]

i still find baal kinda interesting since he's more multi-faceted.

You got that right. XD

[shiznaw]

All I have to say to that is... what would you suggest?

Can you post a reply, which details an "Interesting" apponent. Who would be cheap to create (unless of course, as well as posting an interesting bad guy, you also have tonnes of cash to create this), based on budgets.

Also you say they're not interesting, or are just the same thing over and over again. But hey your still here 9/10 years later. Some thing must have sparked your interest. Or have you been watching for the hell of it?

First off, I apologize for not being around as of late. I've been busy working like a dog for the firm. Now for the responses:

The purpose of this thread was to ellicit debate centering around the apparent practice that the show has to establish some linear storyboard in which a new and bigger evil-doer has to be introduced every couple of seasons to keep or grow the fanbase. That's couldn't be further from the case. But now its become more evident as the almighty Ori takes Center Stage.

[shiznaw]

All I have to say to that is... what would you suggest?

Can you post a reply, which details an "Interesting" apponent. Who would be cheap to create (unless of course, as well as posting an interesting bad guy, you also have tonnes of cash to create this), based on budgets.

Also you say they're not interesting, or are just the same thing over and over again. But hey your still here 9/10 years later. Some thing must have sparked your interest. Or have you been watching for the hell of it?

My point is why does the show's existence have to revolve around the bigger bad guy coming to a TV near you next season? The answer is that Stargate doesn't. It's a better quality show without the straw man fallacy...or at least it was.

[Skydiver]

exactly. why do we have to keep making them bigger and badder? Yeah, ok so it would be lame if the newest bad guy was a 98 pound weakling with a killer chihauhaha as his sidekick

but more evil doesn't necessarily = bigger and badder. evil is incidious and those nasty beggers that sneak up on you, that don't appear to be so mean and cruel are often the best villians.

comparing baal and nuby for example.

nuby was like a james bond villian. always coming up with the more complex and super duper plan...which just made him look more and more silly as all his elaborate plans fell apart

baal on the other hand - before the unfortunate plot twist in ex deus machina - was a very good villian. he was quietly evil. no grand plans, no grandious gestures...just simple evilness

now, now he's a joke. a nice looking joke, but a joke nonetheless

[CueBa'al]

The whole religious aspect of the Ori bothers me. I have to agree with those who think it is a bad theme to introduce.

I enjoy the religious themes, because it shows vividly just how dangerous organized religion is. These so called "organized religions", who in reality are nothing more than cults with political clout, are the last remaining major social obstacle our species has to contend with. The fact that religious extremists cannot be reasoned with, bargained with, or made to peacably lay down arms simply plays itself out not only on TV, but in reality. Why not poke a finger in the eye of these super-cults that call themselves "religion"?