S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Petra]

I was never a huge Lam fan to begin with. They needed some one amazing to replace Fraiser, and as pretty as Lexa is I just don't think she has/had what it took to fill the mighty big shoes that Teryl and her amazing chemistry with EVERYONE left behind. In a cast filled with (mostly) amazing actors, her performance seemed lackluster to me.

Mostly? Can I ask who isn't so good in your opinion?

Yeah, I also never warmed up to Lam. She just seemed too cold and distant and lacked any personality..

I agree with your comment on troubled relationship between father and daughter (sorry for snipping it); apart from it getting old very quickly I also think each next one was done in a worse manner than the previous one. I loved Sam/Jacob relationship: it started out as very cliched but soon became one of the most enjoyable aspects of the show, at least for me, and with Selmak in the mix it was even quite original. Then Landry/Lam started out as cliche and remained the cliche the whole time. Except they were also incredibly boring. And then came Vala/Jasek..I don't even have the words to describe how I despise this episode and this "relatonship".

I always thought she was a fantastic looking woman, but the dark hair does amazing things for her.

My dad always says Amanda is the second most beautiful woman he has ever seen..(the first being my mom )

The canon reason (as far as I can recall) is because apparently Jack put them both there in the hopes they'd work it out. Which just makes Jack look stupid and I find it very hard to believe he'd put two people who couldn't work together/treat eachother respectfully into a job taking care of 3 of the most important people in his life and on the front line.

"Canon" in seasons 9-10 made an idiot out of Jack. All the most ridiculous moves got the line "General O'Neill's orders" or something along those lines as the justification. It's another reason why I don't like these seasons so much.

[EvenstarSRV]

As for the almost kiss between AU Martouf and Sam - there was also some precedent for that. Sam had a very close relationship with Martouf due to feelings left over from Jolinar. Up until D&C when she shot him, and despite her feelings for Jack, I think in a way she loved him - so faced with another Martouf and the feelings that dredged up - I can see perhaps being caught up in the moment, especially if the part of her that still feels what Jolinar feels took over.

That's how I saw that scene in Ripple Effect, the remnants of Jolinar's feelings temporarily overcoming her after seeing Martouf for the first time since she killed him.

Anyway, I really liked Ancients in the first seasons, when they were this great, advanced, powerful race. But the more we learned about them the more stupid they were made out to be and I really disliked it. I didn't have any real problems with this storyline till the end of season 8 (I thought Anubis in Threads was really cool) and the idea of the Ori wasn't so bad. If I loved the Ancients storyline, like some fans did, I guess I could have ignored all the mistakes/plotholes/inconsistencies; but since I merely liked it (and in season 8 it started to get boring) all the flaws in its execution made me eventually go "meh, this is boring.."

I kinda liked that the Ancients were brought down to earth a bit, so to speak, by having them make mistakes, that they were shown to be as fallible as the other Great Races. I did like the idea of the Ori as well, but I think their basis of power was flawed, and really didn't like how their defeat was handled almost entirely off-screen.

I agree. But I really didn't see anything sexual in their relationship. Intimate? Yes, I guess you can't get more intimate than when you share your mind with someone; but I always thought it was more on the intellectual/spiritual level than physical. When Landry implied they had sex - at least that's how I understood the scene - I went: "what?".

Considering that Sam was just getting to the point of telling Orlin she liked him before they raided her house, I didn't think there was a sexual relationship between them either.

And I wonder how did Landry know about it? I'm not sure it was something Sam would have written about in her report, apart from it being a very personal experience it would also give NID/Kinsey something to use against her in the future and the military could consider her compromised.

It seemed to me like Sam may have described the mind exchange she had with Orlin as 'intimate' in her report, which Landry must have read. But I agree it was in very poor taste that the writers decided to make a joke out of it because Orlin came back as a young boy. Definitely one of those cases (ala Irresponsible or Family Ties) where their idea of funny greatly differed from mine.

[major davis]

That's how I saw that scene in Ripple Effect, the remnants of Jolinar's feelings temporarily overcoming her after seeing Martouf for the first time since she killed him.



I kinda liked that the Ancients were brought down to earth a bit, so to speak, by having them make mistakes, that they were shown to be as fallible as the other Great Races. I did like the idea of the Ori as well, but I think their basis of power was flawed, and really didn't like how their defeat was handled almost entirely off-screen.



Considering that Sam was just getting to the point of telling Orlin she liked him before they raided her house, I didn't think there was a sexual relationship between them either.



It seemed to me like Sam may have described the mind exchange she had with Orlin as 'intimate' in her report, which Landry must have read. But I agree it was in very poor taste that the writers decided to make a joke out of it because Orlin came back as a young boy. Definitely one of those cases (ala Irresponsible or Family Ties) where their idea of funny greatly differed from mine.

I agree with you.

[Ashizuri]

Mostly? Can I ask who isn't so good in your opinion?

I don't think Ben Browder is all that great. I mean, he's not so horrible I couldn't watch him, but he's not amazing. Also, while I think Beau Bridges and Michael Shanks are both phenomenal actors, BBridges never impressed me on Stargate and by season 10 MS seemed so bored with playing Daniel that it came across on screen. I swear, it was like he ended every scene with a wrinkled forhead and slightly confused expression or a constipated frown. That was it. Season 10!Daniel seemed to be far more MS than he was Daniel. I had the same problem with MS in season 5, when he didn't reallywant to be there anymore it came across in the show. (Plus, I've seen most of MS' made for TV movies and um...it seems that if he isn't 100% in love with the character/movie then he doesn't really put a lot of effort into it. He's was great in Burn Notice though. I suppose I think he's sort of hit or miss.) And CB. I think she can be amazing, but it seems that she needs to be reigned in and given firm direction or her characters seem more like charicatures than real people.

I mean, everyone had their off days. In the first few seasons AT, MS, and CJ were all fairly new actors just beginning to perfect their craft and had a few misteps, and RDA can be as dull as cardboard sometimes (sexy cardboard ), but those are the four I had the most problems with.

EDIT: It's been brought to my attention that this could be considered insulting/slamming the actors so I just wanted to point out that I meant no offense to any of them and I hope that nobody thought I did.

I agree with your comment on troubled relationship between father and daughter (sorry for snipping it); apart from it getting old very quickly I also think each next one was done in a worse manner than the previous one. I loved Sam/Jacob relationship: it started out as very cliched but soon became one of the most enjoyable aspects of the show, at least for me, and with Selmak in the mix it was even quite original. Then Landry/Lam started out as cliche and remained the cliche the whole time. Except they were also incredibly boring. And then came Vala/Jasek..I don't even have the words to describe how I despise this episode and this "relatonship".

I agree that the Sam/Jacob was handled the best. I think what made this relationship stand apart was that it was shown that it wasn't just Sam that Jacob alienated, it was his whole family, and the reason he did it wasn't because of his love for his job, though that was what he buried himself in, but because he never recovered from his wife's death, much like Jack in the original movie reacting to Charlie's death. Unfortunately Jacob didn't have a Daniel Jackson to turn to until he got Selmac. I always saw a lot of parallels between Jacob and Jack.

Lam/Landry and Vala/Jasek were both more along the lines of the dad being absentee because of a job/because they're selfish, which is such a stock story that it really does have less of an emotional impact. At least for me.

My dad always says Amanda is the second most beautiful woman he has ever seen..(the first being my mom )

My brother once told me he would take Amanda out to dinner and call her the next day. It must be love.

"Canon" in seasons 9-10 made an idiot out of Jack. All the most ridiculous moves got the line "General O'Neill's orders" or something along those lines as the justification. It's another reason why I don't like these seasons so much.

Season's 9 & 10 made idiots out of everybody. Even Teal'c, who had like, 4 lines was made to look rediculous. (Talion kind of makes me die a little bit on the inside.)

[KatG]

Unfortunately Jacob didn't have a Daniel Jackson to turn to until he got Selmac. I always saw a lot of parallels between Jacob and Jack.

I see a lot of parallels between Jack and Jacob as well, and I think Sam saw it too, in fact I think it had a lot to do with her attraction to Jack.

[Ashizuri]

I see a lot of parallels between Jack and Jacob as well, and I think Sam saw it too, in fact I think it had a lot to do with her attraction to Jack.

Well, that puts a whole new spin on the "daddy issues" debate doesn't it.

I kid, I kid.

Was it Freud who said people are generally attracted to those that remind them of their parents? (Some one of that type said it. . .)

[jckfan55]

That's how I saw that scene in Ripple Effect, the remnants of Jolinar's feelings temporarily overcoming her after seeing Martouf for the first time since she killed him.

Maybe, but considering they had never gone down that road before (except the hand holding when she first met him), it seemed a bit off to me. LIke the writers had this romance in their heads & forgot what had actually been on screen before.

Considering that Sam was just getting to the point of telling Orlin she liked him before they raided her house, I didn't think there was a sexual relationship between them either.

Indeed. Hadn't she just said "There is no "us," Orlin." ?

But I agree it was in very poor taste that the writers decided to make a joke out of it because Orlin came back as a young boy. Definitely one of those cases (ala Irresponsible or Family Ties) where their idea of funny greatly differed from mine.

Me too. Irresponsible indeed.

[Vladius]

glowy sex lolololololololololololololololololololololol

I do agree that the Lam story was unwarranted, and somewhat arbitrary.

[EvenstarSRV]

Maybe, but considering they had never gone down that road before (except the hand holding when she first met him), it seemed a bit off to me. LIke the writers had this romance in their heads & forgot what had actually been on screen before.

I did see it as sorta of an extension of the hand holding scene from the Tok'ra, since this was the first time in a long while she'd had to deal with Jolinar's latent emotions. But there's a good deal of wishful thinking in that line of thinking so you're probably more on target, the writers just got carried away with trying to ship Sam with almost every guy that season.

[suse]

I did see it as sorta of an extension of the hand holding scene from the Tok'ra, since this was the first time in a long while she'd had to deal with Jolinar's latent emotions. But there's a good deal of wishful thinking in that line of thinking so you're probably more on target, the writers just got carried away with trying to ship Sam with almost every guy that season.

Yes, well, they had to do something with her. As she was no longer worthy of leading...

suse

[Petra]

*snipped for length*
EDIT: It's been brought to my attention that this could be considered insulting/slamming the actors so I just wanted to point out that I meant no offense to any of them and I hope that nobody thought I did.

Thanks for answering. I don't think anybody here would think your opinion was insulting though. It's one of the things I love the most about this thread, if you say you aren't that impressed with a character/actor nobody screams "that's bashing!"

Season's 9 & 10 made idiots out of everybody. Even Teal'c, who had like, 4 lines was made to look rediculous. (Talion kind of makes me die a little bit on the inside.)

True. Still, Teal'c was a regular - at least officially - while Jack was shown to be an incompetent moron without even appearing on-screen! Now that's impressive! Not.

I did see it as sorta of an extension of the hand holding scene from the Tok'ra, since this was the first time in a long while she'd had to deal with Jolinar's latent emotions. But there's a good deal of wishful thinking in that line of thinking so you're probably more on target, the writers just got carried away with trying to ship Sam with almost every guy that season.

Thank you. Once again you managed to redeem a scene for me. I like such take on it, and believing it was Jolinar's "fault" doesn't burst my S/J bubble.
Even though the latter part of the quote is in reality more probable.

[jckfan55]

Thank you. Once again you managed to redeem a scene for me. I like such take on it, and believing it was Jolinar's "fault" doesn't burst my S/J bubble.
Even though the latter part of the quote is in reality more probable.

Although given the way they dropped the whole Jolinar angle, it seems awfully convenient for that to come back. And the people who might have been new viewers wouldn't know that. Apparently they also cut a scene where Sam and Martouf talk about her having killed him. That might have set up the being overwhelmed by Jolinar's feelings idea better.

[suse]

Although given the way they dropped the whole Jolinar angle, it seems awfully convenient for that to come back. And the people who might have been new viewers wouldn't know that. Apparently they also cut a scene where Sam and Martouf talk about her having killed him. That might have set up the being overwhelmed by Jolinar's feelings idea better.

I think they could have kept that scene and gotten rid of a few other scenes. Though I guess Mitchell losing his pants was entirely too yukyuk to lose...

They really dropped the ball with Janet too.

suse

[Callista]

Maybe, but considering they had never gone down that road before (except the hand holding when she first met him), it seemed a bit off to me. LIke the writers had this romance in their heads & forgot what had actually been on screen before.

I sometimes wonder if the bolded part doesn't happen quite frequently. I wonder how many of the writers sit down and watch the finished program or go back and watch old episodes. If they don't, I would imagine it would be quite easy for them to remember what they wanted and planned rather than what we actually saw and heard along with all the little things added by the actors and the directors and the music as well as the little things subtracted by the editors and the producers. Plus, with this show we've got a whole bunch of writers...some of the later additions may never have even talked to some of the earlier writers who had already moved on...who are not necessarily trying to imply the same things, especially in regards to the different character relationships.

Just as an example, CJ apparently added that bit in "1969" about Junior eventually taking Teal'c as a host which completely disagreed with everything else we'd been told. Did the production people go back and check with the writers before allowing that in? I don't know. It probably seemed like a tiny little thing to them if they even noticed it at all, but I bet there were a couple of people in the writing room that weren't particularly pleased.

Anyway, after ten years and oodles of writers and producers and directors and several cast changes and a change of networks, there were many canon things that were changed or forgotten along the line. Heck! Many canon things got changed or forgotten after just a few years.

[Vladius]

Now, now, we can't all throw retcons left and right like Star Wars.