S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Ashizuri]

Re: bolded parts. Yeah, same with me.

Love that #1 raeson too. For me that reason is number 3 or 4. Because she was the added later when I stopped expecting more. And just help hoping for glimmers of what was. So rarely satisfied...

suse

Oh, I think it was Prototype where I stopped watching with any serious interest or attention to details (Daniel's character growth might have been "natural", but it didn't mean I had to like it), but I have a friend who thinks the sun rises and sets with BBrowder so she kept me informed of the shows details. At first I thought she was joking, imagine my surprise when I actually saw Flesh and Blood.

I should actually do a top ten "are you freaking serious" list.

I was on a rollercoaster with Vala. I absolutely hated her in Prometheus Unbound (hated the whole ep actually) but it wasn't exactly because of Vala but rather the idea of her character, if this makes sense. I just felt that a space pirate doesn't fit military sci-fi about defending Earth and aliens/people on other planets gaining freedom after millenia of slavery. When Vala was introduced it felt like I was teleported to some other universe.

But then season 9 came and with everything that changed I decided Vala may be a part of this "new" universe after all. Seasons 9&10 didn't have the same "feel" as previous 8 seasons and space pirates/crime syndicates didn't feel so alien (pardon the pun) anymore. Plus SG didn't have so selfish character in..well, never, so it was interesting to see. As I said, if they kept her in her season 9 incarnation as a reocurring ally/villain I'd be happy.

But for some inexplicable reason they decided to make her a team member, which I'll never buy, and in an effort to tone her down they destroyed independent, self-assured and egoistical character I came to like. If TPTB were at least consistent in her portrayal in season 10..*sigh* but no, one week we had a serious Vala (usually with Tomin) whom I loved and the next week we got a sweet girly idiot, whom I couldn't stand. It looks like TPTB can't make up their own minds as to who she is.

I feel mostly the same about Vala.

PU was horrible to me because to build this one character up, every other character was written OOC. No part of me can reconcile PU!Hammond, coming into Jack's base and disrespecting him in front of those he commands and making his position as General there so untenable. That's not my General Hammond, particularly not to some one we know he respects as much as he respects Jack. Or a seasoned air force officer not willing to give his commanding officer mouth to mouth to save his life!! I cannot express how much this episode irks me. And the fight scene...

What also makes me curious about this episode was how much the D/V shippers love it. I don't seem to recall Daniel trying to stop Hammond from destroying her ship when she was trying to escape...how is letting some one else blow her up romantic?

Vala with Tomin was actually one of the only things I enjoyed about her character/season 10. She was all the things I would have wanted from her character when she was with him: strong and self assured, yet there was an empathy her character had with him that wasn't in play in her interactions with any other character. TPTB made a bit mistake not playing this relationship out to its fullest.

[Ashizuri]

I think that the ships were created faster because we had both Asgard and Goa'uld designs to tack onto it.

Cam wasn't supposed to be the most awesome person ever or some super badass from day one. The point of the introduction was to... introduce him. He hasn't really done anything extremely cool when compared with the rest of SG-1.

You don't think single handedly saving SG-1/the day/the world/the unvierse (no mention of Jack mind you, the one who should have gotten the recognition/accolades) in a space alien dog-fight over antarctica and receiving the CMoH (shudders) for crashing your plane almost dying and being given anything you want because you so clearly were the one to save everything isn't over the top??

Because that's basically what we're told.

[Petra]

I think that the ships were created faster because we had both Asgard and Goa'uld designs to tack onto it.

Did you read what suse posted? It takes years to build a ship (not spaceship) even with plans in place.

Cam wasn't supposed to be the most awesome person ever or some super badass from day one. The point of the introduction was to... introduce him. He hasn't really done anything extremely cool when compared with the rest of SG-1.

Which is exactly our point. He didn't do anything special, yet we are made to believe he did.

[HPMom]

Absolutely. Colonel Dixon's rant about kids is a classic. I identified with that guy immediately, and it didn't matter that the actor had been on another scifi show.

He would have made a great addition to SG1!

[Petra]

PU was horrible to me because to build this one character up, every other character was written OOC. No part of me can reconcile PU!Hammond, coming into Jack's base and disrespecting him in front of those he commands and making his position as General there so untenable. That's not my General Hammond, particularly not to some one we know he respects as much as he respects Jack. Or a seasoned air force officer not willing to give his commanding officer mouth to mouth to save his life!! I cannot express how much this episode irks me. And the fight scene...

Agreed in 100%.
I can't green you, but thank you so much for saying this! I guess you are the only person, apart from golfbooy who sadly doesn't post here anymore, who also thinks gen. Hammond would never behave like this. His behaviour on the base and later on the ship, when all of a sudden he decided to play the hero was so OOC for me that I was seriously considering him being under the influence or something. And then I read on the forum that people loved it! What the..? Ditto on Reynolds. And Walter can now fly a ship! What didn't you know..

Vala with Tomin was actually one of the only things I enjoyed about her character/season 10. She was all the things I would have wanted from her character when she was with him: strong and self assured, yet there was an empathy her character had with him that wasn't in play in her interactions with any other character. TPTB made a bit mistake not playing this relationship out to its fullest.

Again, I agree. But then, if Vala stayed with Tomin, TPTB would have to deal with the outrage of D/V shippers..

[VSS]

There are a very few eps of S1-8 I haven't seen, and PU is one of them. I turned it off as soon as Vala (in the black suit) said she found Daniel attractive and then whipped her helmet off. From the comments about the ep that I've read today, I wonder if I ever should. One of the reasons why I wanted to go back and watch every single episode was so I can say I didn't miss anything, but I'm kind of liking my little fantasy world within a fantasy world.

Again, I agree. But then, if Vala stayed with Tomin, TPTB would have to deal with the outrage of D/V shippers..

I kinda feel sorry for the DV shippers. They got jerked around with Unending even worse than the S/J shippers did with Moebius.

[KatG]

Absolutely. Colonel Dixon's rant about kids is a classic. I identified with that guy immediately, and it didn't matter that the actor had been on another scifi show.

He would have made a great addition to SG1!

Yes he would. I could even have bought him leading SG-1 and Sam as 2IC when she came back as he would definitely have the seniority and experience to lead the team.

PU was horrible to me because to build this one character up, every other character was written OOC. No part of me can reconcile PU!Hammond, coming into Jack's base and disrespecting him in front of those he commands and making his position as General there so untenable. That's not my General Hammond, particularly not to some one we know he respects as much as he respects Jack. Or a seasoned air force officer not willing to give his commanding officer mouth to mouth to save his life!! I cannot express how much this episode irks me. And the fight scene...

----

Vala with Tomin was actually one of the only things I enjoyed about her character/season 10. She was all the things I would have wanted from her character when she was with him: strong and self assured, yet there was an empathy her character had with him that wasn't in play in her interactions with any other character. TPTB made a bit mistake not playing this relationship out to its fullest.

Agreed in 100%.
I can't green you, but thank you so much for saying this! I guess you are the only person, apart from golfbooy who sadly doesn't post here anymore, who also thinks gen. Hammond would never behave like this. His behaviour on the base and later on the ship, when all of a sudden he decided to play the hero was so OOC for me that I was seriously considering him being under the influence or something. And then I read on the forum that people loved it! What the..? Ditto on Reynolds. And Walter can now fly a ship! What didn't you know..



Again, I agree. But then, if Vala stayed with Tomin, TPTB would have to deal with the outrage of D/V shippers..

Y'all aren't the only ones who thought Hammond acted out of character. In fact, everyone as col aga said was out of character. I personally have a really hard time believing that Reynolds would have hesitated to render mouth to mouth to Hammond - it's very unprofessional. Definitely a what the....? moment.

I loved Vala with Tomin. It was a lovely relationship and the two actors really played off each other well, bringing a depth to Vala, that was hard to mesh with the flirty, girly, sex kitten that she usually was. I think TPTB really dropped the ball in not developing it more, even if it did come at the expense of D/V (which wouldn't have been a bad idea imo anyway). I didn't like who Daniel became when he was with Vala.

Another missed opportunity with Vala, was to not focus more on her time as host to Q'tesh. What a rich backstory that could have been if they had focused more on the effects of that time, maybe used it as a tool for more bonding moments with Sam as being a host is something they both have in common.

And that's really what bothered me the most. SG-1 had always done a phenomenol job at "backstory" and "canon" and all of sudden it was as if it just didn't exist.

[jckfan55]

Agreed in 100%.
I can't green you, but thank you so much for saying this! I guess you are the only person, apart from golfbooy who sadly doesn't post here anymore, who also thinks gen. Hammond would never behave like this. His behaviour on the base and later on the ship, when all of a sudden he decided to play the hero was so OOC for me that I was seriously considering him being under the influence or something. And then I read on the forum that people loved it! What the..? Ditto on Reynolds. And Walter can now fly a ship! What didn't you know..

Me three. I refuse to rewatch PU episode when it's on tv. The mouth to mouth thing was so juvenile.

I've also never understood Walter fandom. I actually prefer other techs.


I also disliked how he went from a gate tech to being O'Neill's aide in that ep. where the civilian assistant comes on--Zero Hour? It was like they just wanted to give GJ something to do.

[KatG]

I kinda feel sorry for the DV shippers. They got jerked around with Unending even worse than the S/J shippers did with Moebius.

Yes they did. At least we got "fishing" at the end of Moebius. D/V shippers got a reboot with no remembrance of what happened.

[VSS]

Yes he would. I could even have bought him leading SG-1 and Sam as 2IC when she came back as he would definitely have the seniority and experience to lead the team.

I agree completely. But in his ten minutes of screen time, he had backstory developed that TPTB in S10 couldn't deal with. A married father of four. How's that going to fit in with their catchy new version of SG-1?

I loved Vala with Tomin. It was a lovely relationship and the two actors really played off each other well, bringing a depth to Vala, that was hard to mesh with the flirty, girly, sex kitten that she usually was. I think TPTB really dropped the ball in not developing it more, even if it did come at the expense of D/V (which wouldn't have been a bad idea imo anyway). I didn't like who Daniel became when he was with Vala.

Again, a mature adult relationship. Not what they were looking for.

And that's really what bothered me the most. SG-1 had always done a phenomenol job at "backstory" and "canon" and all of sudden it was as if it just didn't exist.

I get the feeling that the prevailing sentiment at the time was that they actually wished it didn't exist.

[VSS]

Yes they did. At least we got "fishing" at the end of Moebius. D/V shippers got a reboot with no remembrance of what happened.

And

Spoiler:

evidently no plans to address D/V in the future. That's mean.

[Petra]

Me three. I refuse to rewatch PU episode when it's on tv. The mouth to mouth thing was so juvenile.

Thanks guys I feel much better now , knowing I'm not alone in my heresy of hugely disliking PU.

I've also never understood Walter fandom. I actually prefer other techs.

Again, I agree. In the first seasons where he was just one of the technicians I didn't mind him, but the more prominent he became the more I didn't like him. I'd have preferred to see Lt. Simmons. At least he was cute...

I also disliked how he went from a gate tech to being O'Neill's aide in that ep. where the civilian assistant comes on--Zero Hour? It was like they just wanted to give GJ something to do.

Yep, it's Zero Hour (I love this ep!). And I also did a double take when I saw Walter acting as Jack's aide, but by this time I was resign to see him pushed into any possible (or not possible, like PU) position/place so GJ could have more on-screen time. And what's so special about Walter anyway?

But to be totally fair there were some instances, as early as in season 1, of Walter giving/taking some paperwork from gen. Hammond. I just assumed it was Gate-related, but perhaps this wasn't the case..

[Ashizuri]

Again, I agree. But then, if Vala stayed with Tomin, TPTB would have to deal with the outrage of D/V shippers..

Comparing the outrage they would have experienced by upsetting this small section of the fandom with the outrage and subsequent mass exodus of fans that were alienated from the show in those final seasons and I have to wonder if TPTBs were drunk for 2 years.

Me three. I refuse to rewatch PU episode when it's on tv. The mouth to mouth thing was so juvenile.

Spoiler tags to be non offensive.

Spoiler:

I can't put my mouth on another man, that's gay!!!

That's how that scene read to me. That whole episode was reduced to juvenile humor and sex jokes.

I've also never understood Walter fandom. I actually prefer other techs.

I also disliked how he went from a gate tech to being O'Neill's aide in that ep. where the civilian assistant comes on--Zero Hour? It was like they just wanted to give GJ something to do.

I never got it either. I think the only episode that he stands out to me is 2010, I always laugh when Jack is promising to get the zat's back and saying thank you and he just snaps out "thursday!" and walks away. Other than that, I barely register him in an episode.

On General Hammond:
I can buy Hammond doing anything it took to save some one under his command (like sneaking through the gate, salvaging an old death glider and being generally (pun totally intended ) way more awesome than everyone else. But that was a last resort and he wasn't willing to compromise the integrity or job of anyone at the SGC so he commited the insubordination himself and went alone. He's not going to play the action hero when he has younger, more physically able people with him to get the job done. Hammond makes the good decisions and gets the job done, he doesn't act like a brash fool. except for in PU.

[HPMom]

Y'all aren't the only ones who thought Hammond acted out of character. In fact, everyone as col aga said was out of character. I personally have a really hard time believing that Reynolds would have hesitated to render mouth to mouth to Hammond - it's very unprofessional. Definitely a what the....? moment.

I liked PU, but I can understand the complaints about it. The fight scene between Daniel and Vala makes me really uneasy, but I did enjoy it when he biffed her.

I did think Hammond insisting on going himself was a bad command decision. He wouldn't have the endurance that some of the others had and therefore put the mission at risk.

I thought it was kind of funny when he wanted Daniel to go on the mission, but I can see where you're coming from. It seems like it was a precursor to S9 and 10 where canon and plot suffered for the sake of humor. At times it could be very funny, but SG-verse shouldn't have to suffer for the sake of humor. It can be funny AND stay true to the characters.

I for one can tell you if they gave the D/V shippers what they wanted, this fan would have walked away because I can't stand the way Daniel acts when he's with her.

[Ashizuri]

I liked PU, but I can understand the complaints about it. The fight scene between Daniel and Vala makes me really uneasy, but I did enjoy it when he biffed her.

I did think Hammond insisting on going himself was a bad command decision. He wouldn't have the endurance that some of the others had and therefore put the mission at risk.

I thought it was kind of funny when he wanted Daniel to go on the mission, but I can see where you're coming from. It seems like it was a precursor to S9 and 10 where canon and plot suffered for the sake of humor. At times it could be very funny, but SG-verse shouldn't have to suffer for the sake of humor. It can be funny AND stay true to the characters.

I for one can tell you if they gave the D/V shippers what they wanted, this fan would have walked away because I can't stand the way Daniel acts when he's with her.

I can completely understand Hammond wanting Daniel to go on the mission, it's the way he goes about it that's completely OOC.

But, but, but....Daniel was so awesome when he was with Vala. He was all snarky and sarcastic and it was sooooo amazing to see him loose his cool. She totally made him a better man.