Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Cagranosalis]

Thanks for confirmation on the bling thing. That's...comforting to know!

I did have something deep and profound to say about APA's post but then, a Fimble got thrown at me by a 2 years old and I lost the train of thought.

Oh, yes...now I remember. We talk about - and I think we mostly agree - that Jack's answer to Sam in the ring scene was vague at best but it's interesting to see the interpretation of the summary writer on the Gateworld episode guide who describes his answer as definitive. I would say it was anything but. How can you give a definitive answer to a vague question?

[Gategirl95]

EDIT: I should add that while my husband saw 'resolution' in Jack's body language in both scenes, it was the complete and sudden absence of sexual tension which you could have cut with a knife at the beginning of Threads replaced by smiling (and in Jack's case cocky) gazes by the end of Moebius - and only one thing gets rid of ST that quickly.

*chokes on cereal* oh boy, that could have a very bad meaning or a good one... which one is it?

OT

Spoiler:

you know I had a very weird dream last night, it was not the usual s/j shippy dream but rather, I met Joe Flanagan at the local Walgreens and got his autograph, and then the Walgreens was closed temporally to be used in the Atlantis movie, something about a wraith on earth...Strange I know, but what bothers me is I dont really like Sheppard (He is very good looking and occasionally makes happy but men who have sleep with multiple women make me very mad, I dont even like Indiana Jones for the same reason) so why would I dream about meeting the actor?? I have a crazy subconscious

OT

Spoiler:

does anyone here feel bad for the pres. for screwing up the oath not once but twice? that was one really nervous man

[trinity3]

((((trinity)))

Spoiler:

Hope you're all ok now.

Thanks Cags. It's amazing how things happen in a split second. But yeah. I'm fine now


One of my favourite shippy scene (forgot to post before), is the ep when Jack goes in search of Daniel in the forest and Sam has command of their mission against the Supersoldiers (can't remember the name of the ep.
D'oh!)

Jack comes in to tell Sam he's going to get Daniel. Sam says that's good.

They talk a bit more and look at each other knowing it could possibly be the last time they see each other alive, or at all for that matter, and the last words they say to each other, amidst all the looooks are.

Good luck.
You too.



Oh wait! Was that shippy or just an angst overload???

Whatever. I think it's an awesome scene between them.

[Solo]

OT

Spoiler:

does anyone here feel bad for the pres. for screwing up the oath not once but twice? that was one really nervous man

OT

Spoiler:

It was actually Chief Justice Roberts (I SOO wanna call him Dread Pirate...) who screwed it up first - he put "faithfully" in the wrong place, and said "President to the United States, instead of of - Obama just waited for him to sort himself out and then carried on calmly

[Rachel-Kree]

Hello Shippers...
i was in the search of the link of the Valenship day from last year... does someone still know the link ??? please...

[Luvnjoe]

Hello Shippers...
i was in the search of the link of the Valenship day from last year... does someone still know the link ??? please...

Valenship

[Gategirl95]

change of subject,

Spoiler:

I just watched the beginning scenes and the ending scenes of Continuum.
Jack Died! and Sam was in total shock.*sobs heartbrokenly* first time i've seen it since it came out.. *sobs*, I cant help it, he died so horribly..

.

Spoiler:

get to the gate
not without you!

[starlover]

Hello Shippers...
i was in the search of the link of the Valenship day from last year... does someone still know the link ??? please...

Valenship 2008



I'm not here...I'm just a figment of your imagination

[Luvnjoe]

Friendly reminder that Continuum still needs to be in spoilers...

[Gategirl95]

Sorry, very, very sorry, *hides under rock and is very embarrassed*

[Aveo_amacus]

Thanks Cags. It's amazing how things happen in a split second. But yeah. I'm fine now


One of my favourite shippy scene (forgot to post before), is the ep when Jack goes in search of Daniel in the forest and Sam has command of their mission against the Supersoldiers (can't remember the name of the ep.
D'oh!)

Jack comes in to tell Sam he's going to get Daniel. Sam says that's good.

They talk a bit more and look at each other knowing it could possibly be the last time they see each other alive, or at all for that matter, and the last words they say to each other, amidst all the looooks are.

Good luck.
You too.



Oh wait! Was that shippy or just an angst overload???

Whatever. I think it's an awesome scene between them.

Evolution?

[Gategirl95]

Evolution?

yeah, part 2

[Solo]

Re Affinity - Cags has already quoted me lol but we had a fabulously detailed conversation going via email which basically contained a series of emails all of which started with, "Oh, I agree, and.. <insert elaboration here>"

In short, I had a kind of overview of the show. Yes, Jack does a great job of pushing Sam away in 5 & 6, but I think he does it because she told him to, in no uncertain terms - twice. In Divide & Conquer, it's Sam who jumps in to say that it never has to leave the room - it's Jack who questions whether that's okay. And in Beneath the Surface it's Sam who snaps back into militay mode and "Sir"s him, much to his anguish.

And like Cags pointed out, it's not her fault - it's partly that she's telling him what she thinks he wants to hear (e.g. that she's not going to rock the boat) but that is largely because Sam, as most of us have agreed at one point or another, is way more comfortable as Major than she is as Sam or Samantha back then. So it's natural that the first part of her personality to respond and take charge is her military persona. And it's telling that it's Jack who's left bereft.

And then, of course, the events in Entity demonstrate to him that he can't just love her from afar, because that puts them both at risk, so he spends the next two years actively trying to convince himself, her, and anyone else nearby that he doesn't feel that way about her anymore. And the sad thing is, he does it really well, and Sam believes it. In that same sort of blinkered way he must've adopted after Charlie's death, he more or less locks a part of himself away and tries to forget it exists. And it turns him into quite a cold character for much of those two seasons.

And try as I might, I don't see him looking anguished in Desperate Measures. I see him being cool, calm and mercenary, but he seems way more emotional when Daniel winds up with a head full of refugees in Lifeboat. Gradually, through the end of season six (Prometheus, Metamorphosis) he's got Sam back on his mind in a way he thought he'd put behind him. In season seven, some of the fun comes back. I quite enjoyed the chatter in Space Race - the whole "not wanting to disappoint Major Carter" thing, the little looks. And meanwhile Sam, who's laboured for the last two years thinking she's done too good a job back in Beneath the Surface of putting him off, is juuust starting to wonder. Bear in mind, she's not got the highest self-esteem on the planet when it comes to romance, so it seems pretty natural to me that she'd question whether he could possibly still feel the same way about her after all this time. Because, like Cags said - these two are perpetually speaking at cross purposes and never quite able to say how they feel.

Then we get Evolution, and they're a team again, properly, and it's clear Jack cares about her and is proud of her - and one of the key things there is Sam leading her own command, away from Jack. There are all these possibilities opening up. So Grace happens. And it's abundantly clear from this that Sam's really not that sure how Jack feels about her ("I'd give it all up if I knew...") and isn't brave enough to ask for a number of reasons - I think partly because she isn't quite ready to spread her wings professionally yet, as well as the fact that she just isn't completely at ease with that aspect of her life. But largely, I think it boils down to them not fully appreciating what each other has been through - Sam doesn't realise how desperate Jack was in her absence, and Jack doesn't know the first thing about her experiences on Prometheus. So, when Jack said, "Jack?" he's trying to put a bit of distance between them precisely because he does care too much, still - but Sam hears, "Still your CO, wtf are you doing?"

And when Sam says, "Jack," I think he hears concussion, my friend - concussion. I don't think he even minds her saying it, because he thinks it's platonic - it's just that it makes it harder for him to keep that pretense up.

And because she's keen to explore that side of her personality without taking that huge risk, both personally and professionally, she winds up dipping her toes with Pete instead of taking the plunge with Jack.

And in a way, I don't think Sam really meant Jack to find out about Pete. If Pete hadn't been written as the MOST persistent , borderline obsessive person on the planet, chances are he'd have given up on Sam long before Jack catches her humming in the elevator. But he is, and Sam's unused to that kind of attention. And now she can do what, sadly, a lot of we women do - and try to gauge Jack's reaction to the idea of her with another bloke. (For Jack and Sam kind of need to reflect their relationship off others in order to gauge its depth, because looking directly at each other is like looking at the sun during an eclipse - very dangerous, and you're likely to end up blind.) I know, most of us grow out of this by our 30s, but let's face it, Sam's a bit behind on the whole dating thing. So she drops the bombshell. And Jack IS gutted, but he's spent four months in an Iraqi prison and goodness knows how long in Ba'al's fortress, fer cryin' out loud - he's not gonna show it, because he figures this is what she wants. She's trying to play it down, and he's trying to cover his hurt, and in so doing confuses her, and then they're both confused and... awkward.

And Jack doesn't have the highest self-esteem either, when it comes to matters of the heart. He sees Sam in this new relationship and it crushes him, but it also helps him behave a bit more naturally around her, because he doesn't have to worry about them getting too close, now - after all, as far as he's aware, Sam's madly in love with her new bloke and he's nothing more than her CO. Of course, Sam's madly in love with her CO and trying to find out if that's real or if she can recreate that with someone more obtainable. So they let their barriers down a little bit, and we get more touchy feely than we have in ages (Death Knell - this is how I think he SHOULD have been during Desperate Measures - Lost City, New Order, Gemini, yada yada).

And Affinity.

Oh Affinity.

I don't think Jack's deliberately doing anything to push her away here. He thinks he's already lost her, and it frees him to actually show her a little more of how he feels. It's all right there in the first thing he says to her. "You haven't said no, either."

So in that bit, I hear Jack going, "If there was even a chance you were in love with me, you'd never have needed two weeks to say no." He thinks he's lost her.

And when it gets to the reasons Sam lists for not saying yes, he hears genuine concern for Pete's feelings, not a list of excuses.

And when she says, "If things had been different..."

I genuinely think he hears, "between us." And that's why he says, in so many words, "I'd have given it all up in a heartbeat - because I'd never have asked you to give this up."

But I don't think that's what Sam's asking. I think Sam is genuinely referring to his first marriage, to Sara, because the only time Sam has ever referred directly to anything between Jack & Sam, it's been to quell it - cf D&C, BtS. She never muses on what might have been between them. She doesn't have any reason, after the last few years, to think that there might still be something between her and Jack - as far as she can tell, she can't even call him 'Jack' without him pulling rank. Why would she go and ask what might have been, after a warning like that? And just before she asked it, they'd been talking about the fact there are people on the base who juggle families and work, and Jack did balance family with work - so I think Sam's saying, "How did you... would you have stayed if Sara hadn't left?"

So I think the pair of them are genuinely at cross purposes for four years. Each as hopelessly in love as the other, despite their denials to themselves and each other and anyone else who'll listen, and each equally clueless to the depths of the other's feelings.

(Man, I oughtta do a word count on this post - if it's over 4,500 words I'm handing it in for my History & Philosophy of Human Rights paper.)

[Gategirl95]

Re Affinity - Cags has already quoted me lol but we had a fabulously detailed conversation going via email which basically contained a series of emails all of which started with, "Oh, I agree, and.. <insert elaboration here>"

In short, I had a kind of overview of the show. Yes, Jack does a great job of pushing Sam away in 5 & 6, but I think he does it because she told him to, in no uncertain terms - twice. In Divide & Conquer, it's Sam who jumps in to say that it never has to leave the room - it's Jack who questions whether that's okay. And in Beneath the Surface it's Sam who snaps back into militay mode and "Sir"s him, much to his anguish.

And like Cags pointed out, it's not her fault - it's partly that she's telling him what she thinks he wants to hear (e.g. that she's not going to rock the boat) but that is largely because Sam, as most of us have agreed at one point or another, is way more comfortable as Major than she is as Sam or Samantha back then. So it's natural that the first part of her personality to respond and take charge is her military persona. And it's telling that it's Jack who's left bereft.

And then, of course, the events in Entity demonstrate to him that he can't just love her from afar, because that puts them both at risk, so he spends the next two years actively trying to convince himself, her, and anyone else nearby that he doesn't feel that way about her anymore. And the sad thing is, he does it really well, and Sam believes it. In that same sort of blinkered way he must've adopted after Charlie's death, he more or less locks a part of himself away and tries to forget it exists. And it turns him into quite a cold character for much of those two seasons.

And try as I might, I don't see him looking anguished in Desperate Measures. I see him being cool, calm and mercenary, but he seems way more emotional when Daniel winds up with a head full of refugees in Lifeboat. Gradually, through the end of season six (Prometheus, Metamorphosis) he's got Sam back on his mind in a way he thought he'd put behind him. In season seven, some of the fun comes back. I quite enjoyed the chatter in Space Race - the whole "not wanting to disappoint Major Carter" thing, the little looks. And meanwhile Sam, who's laboured for the last two years thinking she's done too good a job back in Beneath the Surface of putting him off, is juuust starting to wonder. Bear in mind, she's not got the highest self-esteem on the planet when it comes to romance, so it seems pretty natural to me that she'd question whether he could possibly still feel the same way about her after all this time. Because, like Cags said - these two are perpetually speaking at cross purposes and never quite able to say how they feel.

Then we get Evolution, and they're a team again, properly, and it's clear Jack cares about her and is proud of her - and one of the key things there is Sam leading her own command, away from Jack. There are all these possibilities opening up. So Grace happens. And it's clear from this that Sam's really not that sure how Jack feels about her, and isn't brave enough to ask for a number of reasons - I think partly because she isn't quite ready to spread her wings professionally yet, as well as the fact that she just isn't completely at ease with that aspect of her life. But largely, I think it boils down to them not fully appreciating what each other has been through - Sam doesn't realise how desperate Jack was in her absence, and Jack doesn't know the first thing about her experiences on Prometheus. So, when Jack said, "Jack?" he's trying to put a bit of distance between them precisely because he does care too much, still - but Sam hears, "Still your CO, wtf are you doing?"

And because she's keen to explore that side of her personality without taking that huge risk, both personally and professionally, she winds up dipping her toes with Pete instead of taking the plunge with Jack.

And in a way, I don't think Sam really meant Jack to find out about Pete. If Pete hadn't been written as the MOST persistent , borderline obsessive person on the planet, chances are he'd have given up on Sam long before Jack catches her humming in the elevator. But he is, and Sam's unused to that kind of attention. And now she can do what, sadly, a lot of we women do - and try to gauge Jack's reaction to the idea of her with another bloke. (For Jack and Sam kind of need to reflect their relationship off others in order to gauge its depth, because looking directly at each other is like looking at the sun during an eclipse - very dangerous, and you're likely to end up blind.) I know, most of us grow out of this by our 30s, but let's face it, Sam's a bit behind on the whole dating thing. So she drops the bombshell. And Jack IS gutted, but he's spent four months in an Iraqi prison and goodness knows how long in Ba'al's fortress, fer cryin' out loud - he's not gonna show it, because he figures this is what she wants. She's trying to play it down, and he's trying to cover his hurt, and in so doing confuses her, and then they're both confused and... awkward.

And Jack doesn't have the highest self-esteem either, when it comes to matters of the heart. He sees Sam in this new relationship and it crushes him, but it also helps him behave a bit more naturally around her, because he doesn't have to worry about them getting too close, now - after all, as far as he's aware, Sam's madly in love with her new bloke and he's nothing more than her CO. Of course, Sam's madly in love with her CO and trying to find out if that's real or if she can recreate that with someone more obtainable. So they let their barriers down a little bit, and we get more touchy feely than we have in ages (Death Knell - this is how I think he SHOULD have been during Desperate Measures - Lost City, New Order, Gemini, yada yada).

And Affinity.

Oh Affinity.

I don't think Jack's deliberately doing anything to push her away here. He thinks he's already lost her, and it frees him to actually show her a little more of how he feels. It's all right there in the first thing he says to her. "You haven't said no, either."

So in that bit, I hear Jack going, "If there was even a chance you were in love with me, you'd never have needed two weeks to say no." He thinks he's lost her.

And when it gets to the reasons Sam lists for not saying yes, he hears genuine concern for Pete's feelings, not a list of excuses.

And when she says, "If things had been different..."

I genuinely think he hears, "between us." And that's why he says, in so many words, "I'd have given it all up in a heartbeat - because I'd never have asked you to give this up."

But I don't think that's what Sam's asking. I think Sam is genuinely referring to his first marriage, to Sara, because the only time Sam has ever referred directly to anything between Jack & Sam, it's been to quell it - cf D&C, BtS. She never muses on what might have been between them. She doesn't have any reason, after the last few years, to think that there might still be something between her and Jack - as far as she can tell, she can't even call him 'Jack' without him pulling rank. Why would she go and ask what might have been, after a warning like that?

So I think the pair of them are genuinely at cross purposes for four years. Each as hopelessly in love as the other, despite their denials to themselves and each other and anyone else who'll listen, and each equally clueless to the depths of the other's feelings.

(Man, I oughtta do a word count on this post - if it's over 4,500 words I'm handing it in for my History & Philosophy of Human Rights paper.)

wow, thats really long, though I agree with every word...

are you in college or Highschool?

[Luvnjoe]

Sorry, very, very sorry, *hides under rock and is very embarrassed*

No worries! It can be hard to remember what stays in spoilers for how long.