Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[slurredspeech]

It's nice to have a thread where we can have an intelligent discussion without having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important. Everyone's opinion here carries equal weight.

We can debate, dissect and discuss without drama and rancor and without disrespecting the actors, crew, TPTB or, just as importantly, fellow fans.

FF

There are some things I agree with on this thread, some I don't, and so it goes.

But, mate! This post? Is utter self-serving rubbish, and you can report me on that. This thread has 'an intelligent discussion without having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important' in as much an S/J ship thread has one. Or Daniel/Vala has one. Or 'Aren't glowing sexual toys just a wonderful idea -- please, no bashing of glowing sexual toys in here.'

In as much as you all have the very same opinion and agree with each other and pat each other on the back.

Which, btw, is fine. That's what the thread is here for. But, please. What's with the condescension, and 'look how lovely and polite and mature we are here, as oppose to all those other wanky impolite threads, omgwtfbbq.'

An intelligent discussion where 'everyone's opinion carries equally' presupposes that there are opinions that are different. That's discussion 101 for you.

[hedwig]

....and there really should be a Janet Frasier icon....


Deeds xx

See my signature block below; I can point you to several other Janet Frasier icons.

Spoiler:

By scarimor
Janets:

[Aragon101]

There are some things I agree with on this thread, some I don't, and so it goes.

But, mate! This post? Is utter self-serving rubbish, and you can report me on that. This thread has 'an intelligent discussion without having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important' in as much an S/J ship thread has one. Or Daniel/Vala has one. Or 'Aren't glowing sexual toys just a wonderful idea -- please, no bashing of glowing sexual toys in here.'

In as much as you all have the very same opinion and agree with each other and pat each other on the back.

Which, btw, is fine. That's what the thread is here for. But, please. What's with the condescension, and 'look how lovely and polite and mature we are here, as oppose to all those other wanky impolite threads, omgwtfbbq.'

An intelligent discussion where 'everyone's opinion carries equally' presupposes that there are opinions that are different. That's discussion 101 for you.

I think the idea is that we DON"T all have the same opinion. While we can agree on certain things, we can agree to disagree. I'm not a slasher, but i'm not talking down to FF because of it. And the others here aren't bashing me because i like John/Sam. The only commonality between us is our dislike of the S/J Ship. Anything else is a coincidence.

I'll agree that it is condescending in a way, but it's also a sign of frustration. FF reported the post in question and nothing was done. The post in question generalizes those of us who don't agree with the majority and seeks to discredit our opinion by making us seem like we're some evil little group out to ruin people's fun.

Yeah maybe when i first joined i did htat, but hell i learned fast. You took teh legs out from under me enough times that i know that intelligent discussion will go much farther than snark and sarcasm.

Which is why i felt offended at the posts in question. Because of one aspect i don't like of of SG-1 all of a sudden i'm generalized into a group of people whom i'm not a part of? Damn right that offends me. I'm not going to actually DO anything about it but it doesn't make it alright for them to do so. We have our opinions, they have theirs. I don't even bother arguing anymore. I'm tired of stating a case and whoever i'm talking to saying my opinion is just 'subjective' and hence, has no bearing or validity.

I've got nothing against the fans that like S/J and i don't think anyone else here does either. We dislike teh SHIP, not the fans of the ship. I'm not going out there saying "Fans of S/J obviously are _____ and ______!"

So when it's done to us, of course we're going to get offended. Neither side is intrinsically 'right' but neither side is 'wrong' either.

To use a simile, it's like a girl deciding to wear pants instead of a skirt in a conservative area. She's made teh choice of what to wear because of her own likes and dislikes, and it's not harming anyone. It's simply her choice. Yet her conservative parents, teachers, yadda yadda would ostracize her for deciding to go against the 'norm'.

When you look at the numbers of S/J shippers vs non S/J Shippers, it's clear that the former is the majority. When teh fandom unites to discuss, everyone wants their say. But in numbers it suddenly becomes pack mentality whether we like it or not. Since we're not part of the 'group', we're labeled something else entirely and often incorrectly.

Look at what happened to SGU. I can't specifically state anything i don't like about SGU on this forum anymore or else a certain group of people will jump down my throat and nitpick my argument into obscurity. Does that invalidate my opinion? No. Does that mean all the names i've been called by these people are true? Hell no. It just means that i was outnumbered and the pack mentality won. I have my opinion and they have theirs, and theirs outnumbers mine and in the democratic mindset we're all accustomed to, that means that one "won".

I hardly even post beyond this thread and the fanfic section anymore. My opinions are not the norm and wherever i go, i don't get discussion, i get people telling me i'm "wrong." You're one of the few i'd say actually do get into discussion and that's why i'm glad to count you as a friend on this forum.

[slurredspeech]

I think the idea is that we DON"T all have the same opinion. While we can agree on certain things, we can agree to disagree.

The point was, though, that you do have the same opinion on the one thing that is important here -- S/J ship, and why it doesn't work. The opinion on that one is pretty unanimous. Which, again, is fine, great, dandy; just don't try and pass it under 'the greatest and maturest debate there ever was'... among people who think alike.

I'll agree that it is condescending in a way, but it's also a sign of frustration. FF reported the post in question and nothing was done. The post in question generalizes those of us who don't agree with the majority and seeks to discredit our opinion by making us seem like we're some evil little group out to ruin people's fun.

I can't speak to that. I am neither a mod nor a decision-maker (a decider, if you will), so yeah. You very well know I don't think of people opposing the ship as evil anything. Au contraire.

Yeah maybe when i first joined i did htat, but hell i learned fast. You took teh legs out from under me enough times that i know that intelligent discussion will go much farther than snark and sarcasm.

Yes, and yes.

I've got nothing against the fans that like S/J and i don't think anyone else here does either. We dislike teh SHIP, not the fans of the ship. I'm not going out there saying "Fans of S/J obviously are _____ and ______!"

No, you're not. But I snort at people being called a special snowflake. Or should I not. Is this not offending the fans? Now, personally, I am very very hard to offend, and people on this forum have yet to succeed, so this is nothing personal to me. However. It ain't about the ship per se either, baby, and that's just fact. I don't even care for that, really. The reason I posted was because of the obvious glaring hypocrisy. This is an anti S/J as ship thread and that's great. More power to all of you. But being condescending and delusional enough (go ahead, report) to say that stating the same opinion page after page is any more of a mature discussion than gushing over S/J in the pro-S/J thread is both delusional and laughable. It really is.

I hardly even post beyond this thread and the fanfic section anymore. My opinions are not the norm and wherever i go, i don't get discussion, i get people telling me i'm "wrong." You're one of the few i'd say actually do get into discussion and that's why i'm glad to count you as a friend on this forum.

Right back at you, babes. You know it. And I'm sorry you feel that way. With the shippers, or anti's, or anyone in between. The way I see it - for me - I got no reputation to lose, and that's how I like it. This fandom; it scares the living sh-- out of me most of the time. That is to say, to get heavily involved. I have more than a few fics on my hard drive for this fandom and they're for my journal to see, because all sides have their crazy, dude. And thus, all the opinions I may choose to share on here are unfiltered and with no consideration to any group. Yes, you know I enjoy Sam and Jack together in all forms. I also love the Team above all else. I do think there were problems with S/J ship as seen on the show, which is why I said I agree with some of the points made here. On the other hand, some are taken ad absurdum, but hey-ho. I'm the last person to try and desuade anyone. Petty ship wars are... well, you know what they say about winning the SO's.

[discodiva]

See my signature block below; I can point you to several other Janet Frasier icons.

Spoiler:

By scarimor
Janets:

Thank you very very much!...there should be green winging its way to you.....am saving them now....


I still miss Janet....*pouts*...


Deeds xx

[Aragon101]

The point was, though, that you do have the same opinion on the one thing that is important here -- S/J ship, and why it doesn't work. The opinion on that one is pretty unanimous. Which, again, is fine, great, dandy; just don't try and pass it under 'the greatest and maturest debate there ever was'... among people who think alike.

One could say something about quacking, walking and looking like a duck, but that's not hte point

I'm not agreeing that this is the 'maturest' discussion ever, but i do agree that i feel that we can look at the pros and cons with at least some more objectivity. As i've stated repeatedly...

Friendship? Yes.
Attraction? Yes
Healthy romantic relationship? I don't see it.

Evidently this makes me an 'anti' when i support both characters individually. I hate that term. I really do.

I can't speak to that. I am neither a mod nor a decision-maker (a decider, if you will), so yeah. You very well know I don't think of people opposing the ship as evil anything. Au contraire.

Which is why you're not the point of attention here (Sorry, someone had to say it) It's utterly frustrating to have to tippytoe around with our opinions because we've had experiences being silenced. I once used the term "twu wuv" in a thread in a way that had nothing to do with S/J, and i was modded for being "disrespectful."

WTF? The mod in question even wrote at the bottom of the edit column "Twu wuv is disrespectful to shippers" so it wasn't the word itself or they'd have completely gotten rid of it. That's the hypocrisy I see, and that's why here i'm really not affected by certain phrases.

Yes, and yes.

Oh go on!

No, you're not. But I snort at people being called a special snowflake. Or should I not. Is this not offending the fans? Now, personally, I am very very hard to offend, and people on this forum have yet to succeed, so this is nothing personal to me. However. It ain't about the ship per se either, baby, and that's just fact. I don't even care for that, really. The reason I posted was because of the obvious glaring hypocrisy. This is an anti S/J as ship thread and that's great. More power to all of you. But being condescending and delusional enough (go ahead, report) to say that stating the same opinion page after page is any more of a mature discussion than gushing over S/J in the pro-S/J thread is both delusional and laughable. It really is

As i've said above, we all have experiences being ostracized for putting forward our opinions. There's no REAL discussion thread on this forum for this topic. There's just Pro and Anti threads. It's a old thing anyway, i might have cared when i got into the fandom but now it's more like a freak show curiosity.

I still talk to some S/J shippers out there (and you know who you are if you're reading this) about the subject and it's a civilized discussion with both sides making their points, discussing them and offering their opinions and understanding each other. No name calling, no invalidation of the other. That's what i'd love to see but i'm more likely to step on a leprechaun today.

Right back at you, babes. You know it. And I'm sorry you feel that way. With the shippers, or anti's, or anyone in between. The way I see it - for me - I got no reputation to lose, and that's how I like it. This fandom; it scares the living sh-- out of me most of the time. That is to say, to get heavily involved. I have more than a few fics on my hard drive for this fandom and they're for my journal to see, because all sides have their crazy, dude. And thus, all the opinions I may choose to share on here are unfiltered and with no consideration to any group. Yes, you know I enjoy Sam and Jack together in all forms. I also love the Team above all else. I do think there were problems with S/J ship as seen on the show, which is why I said I agree with some of the points made here. On the other hand, some are taken ad absurdum, but hey-ho. I'm the last person to try and desuade anyone. Petty ship wars are... well, you know what they say about winning the SO's.

Which is why i've become disenchanted with SG-1 and SG-A to certain degrees. I still think it's a very fun show, but joining hte fandom has sort of ruined parts of it for me because all of a sudden my mind associates certain things with certain elements of the fandom.

Take this for example. I recently saw a review of 2001 that was pro Sam/Jack. it even made clear mention that Faxon was nothing compared to Jack. Yet if we see 2012, we see exactly where that line of events would have ended up.

Like, i can't wrap my head around that. Seriously.

Isn't the concept of "you can choose to see it or not" mean that it's technically not well solidified? I hear all the time that S/J is great because you can choose to see it or not.

Uhh... what? They're supposedly the Flagship Relationship on the show. Why should i be able to choose to see them or not? Has SG-1 become a sort of 'choose your own adventure' story? Things like this boggle my mind!

[jdjunkie]

The point was, though, that you do have the same opinion on the one thing that is important here -- S/J ship, and why it doesn't work. The opinion on that one is pretty unanimous. Which, again, is fine, great, dandy; just don't try and pass it under 'the greatest and maturest debate there ever was'... among people who think alike.

*raises hand and enters stage right*

It's worth noting that some time ago (not sure when, hell, I have trouble remembering what happened last week!) this thread played host to some pretty disillusioned shippers, unhappy with what they were being served up on screen. But still shippers. Pro-ship. Ship supporters.

There followed some interesting and courteous debate. If I recall correctly, we were complimented by said shippers for being a tolerant, welcoming place to post, despite our obvious differences.

Just sayin'.

[slurredspeech]

*raises hand and enters stage right*

It's worth noting that some time ago (not sure when, hell, I have trouble remembering what happened last week!) this thread played host to some pretty disillusioned shippers, unhappy with what they were being served up on screen. But still shippers. Pro-ship. Ship supporters.

There followed some interesting and courteous debate. If I recall correctly, we were complimented by said shippers for being a tolerant, welcoming place to post, despite our obvious differences.

Just sayin'.

Absolutely, and those days and such discussion was the reason I started following this thread. Because a lot of nice valid points were raised from both sides. As you say, it was some time ago. Go back ten pages and read through them. But then, I cannot stress this enough, that's not even my point. Ranting and raving at the ship, mildly disliking it or downright hating it -- that's your prerogative and it is certainly on topic in this thread. I have absolutely no issue with it, and if I did I'd be sorely failing at reading comprehension when clicking on the title.

But if this -

"...we can have an intelligent discussion wthout having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important.
...
We can debate, dissect and discuss(...)without disrespecting (...) fellow fans."

- isn't the ultimate paradox, I'll be damned.

So, yeah. The only - only - post I criticised was that one. Because it is self-serving and at best delusional. At worst, condescending and a lovely example of a reach-around.

[KatG]

Just a quick mod note:

Yes there was an issue about discussion in the ship discussion thread. Yes it took awhile for it to be handled. This is for varied reasons, the main ones being that all the mods were extremely busy in RL, and while we were all on at various times, a consensus was needed as to where exactly the line had been crossed and what exactly to do about it. It has now been handled. In fact it would have been handled sooner but there was some confusion as to which ship thread it was. That has been resolved. Please try and keep in mind that just because you don't think it's being handled, doesn't mean it's not, just that it may be taking some time.

That being said, it looks like both sides of the opinion have been just as intolerant of the other lately. As far back as June 20, there were several posts that mentioned the "shipper mindset" and it's "rusults". So, maybe it is time for folks who do/do not want to participate in the Ship to refrain from looking for reasons to take pot-shots and discuss opposite minded fans, just as we have asked that those who do want to participate in the ship to be respectful and allow those who don't agree to have their opinions in peace without worry that they will be posted about in a thread that they can not feasibly defend themselves in.

Respect is a two-way street. If you can not show respect it hard to see why you would expect to have it returned. While it is always more mature to take the high road and be respectful regardless, we do already know that has not been the case. So rather then continue the finger pointing about who is to blame for starting this or that. Its time for both sides of the opinion to realize the rules apply to all and all will be treated in the same fashion for violating the very rules they feel are being broken by others.

So by all means, talk about why you don't see ship and your issues with how TPTB handled it. However do not discuss those who do like it - thier mindset, their hopes and expectations, how they will feel if they are not realized, etc. Those who do will be moderated, possibly gagged for a period of time, just as will happen on the other side. You can't have it both ways. You don't want them to talk about you, you don't talk about them.

[Aragon101]

Just a quick mod note:

Yes there was an issue about discussion in the ship discussion thread. Yes it took awhile for it to be handled. This is for varied reasons, the main ones being that all the mods were extremely busy in RL, and while we were all on at various times, a consensus was needed as to where exactly the line had been crossed and what exactly to do about it. It has now been handled. In fact it would have been handled sooner but there was some confusion as to which ship thread it was. That has been resolved. Please try and keep in mind that just because you don't think it's being handled, doesn't mean it's not, just that it may be taking some time.

That being said, it looks like both sides of the opinion have been just as intolerant of the other lately. As far back as June 20, there were several posts that mentioned the "shipper mindset" and it's "rusults". So, maybe it is time for folks who do/do not want to participate in the Ship to refrain from looking for reasons to take pot-shots and discuss opposite minded fans, just as we have asked that those who do want to participate in the ship to be respectful and allow those who don't agree to have their opinions in peace without worry that they will be posted about in a thread that they can not feasibly defend themselves in.

Respect is a two-way street. If you can not show respect it hard to see why you would expect to have it returned. While it is always more mature to take the high road and be respectful regardless, we do already know that has not been the case. So rather then continue the finger pointing about who is to blame for starting this or that. Its time for both sides of the opinion to realize the rules apply to all and all will be treated in the same fashion for violating the very rules they feel are being broken by others.

So by all means, talk about why you don't see ship and your issues with how TPTB handled it. However do not discuss those who do like it - thier mindset, their hopes and expectations, how they will feel if they are not realized, etc. Those who do will be moderated, possibly gagged for a period of time, just as will happen on the other side. You can't have it both ways. You don't want them to talk about you, you don't talk about them.

Now that - as you say - the issue has been handled, i don't see any reason for anyone to vent their frustrations.

But it was clearly stated that the contentious point was the seeming non-response to reported posts. And just on a personal note, what i saw posted recently vs what's been posted here wasn't the same. Both intolerant? Yes, but to different degrees and different points.

It's good to see things being handled, but at the time, it seemed like the two-way street had been re-designated. It's felt like that to me at least for alot longer than June 20th. That's why i don't bring it up anymore outside of this thread, it's not worth the effort.

I'm not trying to antagonize the situation, but simply stating what it felt like on my own personal side. You'd have to ask the others to see what they felt. I'm quite happy to see things being handled accordingly and with a fairer hand.

[Khentkawes]

I was going to make a genuinely on topic post, until I saw the whole little digression we have going on here. And for the record, I don't even know what the other "issue" that has "been handled" was.

There are some things I agree with on this thread, some I don't, and so it goes.

But, mate! This post? Is utter self-serving rubbish, and you can report me on that. This thread has 'an intelligent discussion without having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important' in as much an S/J ship thread has one. Or Daniel/Vala has one. Or 'Aren't glowing sexual toys just a wonderful idea -- please, no bashing of glowing sexual toys in here.'

In as much as you all have the very same opinion and agree with each other and pat each other on the back.

Which, btw, is fine. That's what the thread is here for. But, please. What's with the condescension, and 'look how lovely and polite and mature we are here, as oppose to all those other wanky impolite threads, omgwtfbbq.'

An intelligent discussion where 'everyone's opinion carries equally' presupposes that there are opinions that are different. That's discussion 101 for you.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. Honestly, I'm not. If it's just to say that you think there's some hypocrisy going on here, then, fine. So be it. I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. But to make a slightly pointed statement, I see the same kind of hypocrisy when the Anti-Season-10 thread goes on about their own "intelligent, sophisticated, and well-thought out critiques explaining why season 10 is rubbish." It's still hypocrisy. It's still patting themselves on the back for how they are so intelligent and clever and how those who disagree with them are not. And there are literally hundreds of threads you could make the same claim about.

A lot us here do genuinely try to avoid saying negative things about other fan groups. Do opinions sometimes get a little heated in here? Sure. But that's largely because we can't express our opinions of S/J ship elsewhere without getting called names or being mocked. Heck, I've even gotten the occasional condescending response (through private channels) to posts I make here, where theoretically I should be able to state my opinion with relative safety as long as I do so calmly.

Speaking purely for myself, I don't "hate" S/J fans or think I'm better than them. They are free to enjoy their interpretations of the show, their discussions, their own point of view about the characters, etc. It doesn't bother me in the slightest as long as they allow me the same right.

Which is why i've become disenchanted with SG-1 and SG-A to certain degrees. I still think it's a very fun show, but joining hte fandom has sort of ruined parts of it for me because all of a sudden my mind associates certain things with certain elements of the fandom.

This. It's unfortunate, but true. I used to think that I got more enjoyment than frustration out of fandom. Unfortunately, that's just not true anymore. At least, not for Stargate fandom.

[discodiva]

But to make a slightly pointed statement, I see the same kind of hypocrisy when the Anti-Season-10 thread goes on about their own "intelligent, sophisticated, and well-thought out critiques explaining why season 10 is rubbish." It's still hypocrisy. It's still patting themselves on the back for how they are so intelligent and clever and how those who disagree with them are not. And there are literally hundreds of threads you could make the same claim about.

This....with very BIG bells on....

A lot us here do genuinely try to avoid saying negative things about other fan groups. Do opinions sometimes get a little heated in here? Sure. But that's largely because we can't express our opinions of S/J ship elsewhere without getting called names or being mocked. Heck, I've even gotten the occasional condescending response (through private channels) to posts I make here, where theoretically I should be able to state my opinion with relative safety as long as I do so calmly.

Speaking purely for myself, I don't "hate" S/J fans or think I'm better than them. They are free to enjoy their interpretations of the show, their discussions, their own point of view about the characters, etc. It doesn't bother me in the slightest as long as they allow me the same right.

Absolutely....life's too short to hate....however yes, some people annoy and my "ignore list" has grown far quickly in the last year, than over the previous 4+ years I've been a GW member...

This. It's unfortunate, but true. I used to think that I got more enjoyment than frustration out of fandom. Unfortunately, that's just not true anymore. At least, not for Stargate fandom.

I get very little enjoyment from Stargate, GW and forums these days.....the lightheartedness, banter and fun has all but gone from it....it's point scoring, leaping to the defence of someone/thing or just general "snipeing" that seems to be prevalent......I very rarely post these days (a few times a week now) and am quite happy to have my "real Stargate chats" on LJ, DW, FB or by email and msn with friends I made over 5 years ago and were more than happy to welcome me with friendly, open arms and have stayed good friends for all that time...


As for my "ship" preferences or lack of them.....well that ain't gonna change, nor is my love for my favourite character and everything involving him and the actor who plays him........I try to be polite and accepting but if I "snark" then I always try to do it with humour......the Original Daniel Jackson Hussies taught me all I know and I'm eternally grateful for their fun and friendship....

And to end on a positive and not negative note - I have to thank Stargate for giving me probably two of the greatest friends I've made in the whole of my life.....and for getting me off my scared little bottom to fly again and go travelling all over the world, seeing places and meeting people I never thought I'd ever meet!!...


Deeds xx

[slurredspeech]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. Honestly, I'm not.

Non-working Mondays and free drinks for all.

I'm not trying to accomplish anything. I was commenting on a post.

And there are literally hundreds of threads you could make the same claim about.

Did my post not say "This thread has 'an intelligent discussion without having to pander to delicate little snowflakes who have to be the centre of attention and whose opinion is very important' in as much an S/J ship thread has one. Or Daniel/Vala has one. Or 'Aren't glowing sexual toys just a wonderful idea -- please, no bashing of glowing sexual toys in here.'"

Yes. Yes it did.

[mod snip]

A lot us here do genuinely try to avoid saying negative things about other fan groups. Do opinions sometimes get a little heated in here? Sure. But that's largely because we can't express our opinions of S/J ship elsewhere without getting called names or being mocked. Heck, I've even gotten the occasional condescending response (through private channels) to posts I make here, where theoretically I should be able to state my opinion with relative safety as long as I do so calmly.

I'm sorry for those responses you received. Of course you should be able to rant and rave here as much as you want. Look, I have no problem with strong opinions on any topic, and even if I disagree with them. Even if they're very heated and not at all calm, though I admire your effort to do stay level-headed and polite. None of this was anything I would or did take an issue with, nor was it the reason I posted.

Again. My issue was the shameless self-congratulatory tone about how very inferior other threads and fans are followed by a mind-blowingly paradoxal statement about honest discussion without insulting other groups.

I snorted and hit reply. Perhaps I should have reported it instead, as that seems to be the general modus operandi, and I have yet to try my report button. But, you know. With that claim about everyone's opinion carrying equal weight and open debates being a norm, I thought I'd give it a try.

Speaking purely for myself, I don't "hate" S/J fans or think I'm better than them. They are free to enjoy their interpretations of the show, their discussions, their own point of view about the characters, etc. It doesn't bother me in the slightest as long as they allow me the same right.

I hope you realize we completely agree on this.

[RingThing]

I think the idea is that we DON"T all have the same opinion. While we can agree on certain things, we can agree to disagree. I'm not a slasher, but i'm not talking down to FF because of it. And the others here aren't bashing me because i like John/Sam. The only commonality between us is our dislike of the S/J Ship. Anything else is a coincidence.

I'll agree that it is condescending in a way, but it's also a sign of frustration. FF reported the post in question and nothing was done. The post in question generalizes those of us who don't agree with the majority and seeks to discredit our opinion by making us seem like we're some evil little group out to ruin people's fun.

Yeah maybe when i first joined i did htat, but hell i learned fast. You took teh legs out from under me enough times that i know that intelligent discussion will go much farther than snark and sarcasm.

Which is why i felt offended at the posts in question. Because of one aspect i don't like of of SG-1 all of a sudden i'm generalized into a group of people whom i'm not a part of? Damn right that offends me. I'm not going to actually DO anything about it but it doesn't make it alright for them to do so. We have our opinions, they have theirs. I don't even bother arguing anymore. I'm tired of stating a case and whoever i'm talking to saying my opinion is just 'subjective' and hence, has no bearing or validity.

I've got nothing against the fans that like S/J and i don't think anyone else here does either. We dislike teh SHIP, not the fans of the ship. I'm not going out there saying "Fans of S/J obviously are _____ and ______!"

So when it's done to us, of course we're going to get offended. Neither side is intrinsically 'right' but neither side is 'wrong' either.

To use a simile, it's like a girl deciding to wear pants instead of a skirt in a conservative area. She's made teh choice of what to wear because of her own likes and dislikes, and it's not harming anyone. It's simply her choice. Yet her conservative parents, teachers, yadda yadda would ostracize her for deciding to go against the 'norm'.

When you look at the numbers of S/J shippers vs non S/J Shippers, it's clear that the former is the majority. When teh fandom unites to discuss, everyone wants their say. But in numbers it suddenly becomes pack mentality whether we like it or not. Since we're not part of the 'group', we're labeled something else entirely and often incorrectly.

Look at what happened to SGU. I can't specifically state anything i don't like about SGU on this forum anymore or else a certain group of people will jump down my throat and nitpick my argument into obscurity. Does that invalidate my opinion? No. Does that mean all the names i've been called by these people are true? Hell no. It just means that i was outnumbered and the pack mentality won. I have my opinion and they have theirs, and theirs outnumbers mine and in the democratic mindset we're all accustomed to, that means that one "won".

I hardly even post beyond this thread and the fanfic section anymore. My opinions are not the norm and wherever i go, i don't get discussion, i get people telling me i'm "wrong." You're one of the few i'd say actually do get into discussion and that's why i'm glad to count you as a friend on this forum.

Just want to say I completely agree with this - one of the reasons I and several of my friends is largely staying away from Gateworld. It gets tiresome being told you're wrong not to love a particular ship, and that it means you're not a true Stargate fan. We've all tried getting the not-so friendly comments or even pm's/mails.

[KatG]

*coughs* Ahem. *cough*

Let's get back on topic guys, please. The discussion is for why you don't want to see ship between Sam/Jack. Not why you no longer play on GW as much or how much other threads annoy you, or whether or not certain comments are hypocritical. While I know that some off topicness is going to occur just as a general fallout of conversation, I also know you guys have valid reasons and concerns for why you don't want to see it, so if you could try and talk about that. for the most part, it would be greatly appreciated.