Jack O'Neill/ Sam Carter - Part of a team, not a ship

[Dani347]

Ack! I didn't edit fast enough. Maybe I was too drunk. Topic? No J/S. J/S bad. Baaaad.

[Jace021903]

I didn't know that about the AU Sam's in the early seasons... that's interesting.

Guess it's a bit o/t but I've heard from people who have family in the military that even if two people on the same team aren't military (as Daniel and Vala aren't), a relationship between them would still be frowned upon. But as you said, it could be that the advisor doesn't find it a big deal...

No, they shouldn't. And they aren't really as far as we know

Unending spoiler

Spoiler:

since Unending was a different timeline with extraordinary circumstances and a big old reset

But I still don't think the advisor cares about the frat regs for anybody else as much as they did for the two people actually in the airforce

They've showed very close relationships between the SG-1 members which I understand would also not be allowed. But where would the fun in that be?

So I'm glad that Jack didn't have to hand in his resignation to hug Daniel in the Serpent Lair/Grasp episode or that The Curse didn't have to be an AU episode for Jack to take Teal'c fishing.

[scarimor]

I was trying to get my head around the relevance of what you were saying. I still don't see it as at all relevant.

It's relevant because it's mistaken for animosity between S/J-shippers and D/J-slashers.

Yes, but I still don't see what it has to do with "the animosity between the S/J fans and the D/J fans" which is so phrased as to imply that this animosity is both factual and universal

It isn't. That's my point.

It's interesting that the post in which I said so has been deleted. If this off-topic argument is to be modded, please mod it from your OT post onwards, not this selective editing to leave you with the last word so that a misleading notion goes uncorrected.

Or just leave this correction in place, please.

[Madeleine]

I didn't mod the thread, I asked another mod to look at it and everything that got snipped was their call. Any posts of yours that were snipped were not necessarily snipped for OT-ness; we don't usually snip *that*.

Moderator decisions really aren't on-topic in here, so if you want it discussed please take it to PM. Ideally with another mod, not me.

Ta.

[Frostfox]

Tapping is also proud of how her relationship with O'Neill was handled by the writers. Obviously attracted to one another, the characters were unable to explore those feelings because of their military ranks, leaving fans in a tizzy for years. Yet the actress says that distance helped define their characters all the more - both good and bad. "It's always interesting because [people say], 'Oh, Sam and Jack...what a great pairing!' Well, yeah...it would have been if it ever worked out! You couldn't get two more relationship-dysfunctional people together. It was something I never though of until after Rick left the show and I went, 'Oh, wow. What a messed-up relationship that those two have!' You almost just wanted to see two of them get it on!" she laughs. "But the sexual tension spoke more to the dysfunction of those two, for the fact that they could never really connect with their emotions. She is an amazing soldier and very much a military girl, so there is this great belief in her commanding officer. Then there is this underlying tension that is very easy to play when you work with Richard Dean Anderson," she smirks. "It was always there, and it was a lot of fun to play, yet at times it felt inappropriate and others it was just a good sense of fun. I don't think Carter really came into her own as a woman until maybe season six and seven, when she had a relationship with Pete and her first functioning adult relationship."

An interesting new insight into Amanda Tapping's views on her character's relationships.
She obviously likes the relationship between Sam and Jack more than we do, but she's not blind or stupid, she's quite aware that anything between them would have been an unmitigated disaster and that it was inappropriate.
She seems aware that Sam had a crush on a superior officer who she respected and genuinely cared for and is proud that the writers never devalued the characters by going down that route.

And I can totally understand that working with a charismatic actor like RDA would be a joy in itself.

Thoughts anyone?

FF

[Madeleine]

That's interesting, that she sees the UST as a facet of Sam's and Jack's shared dysfunctionalness. Given that the UST was played a fair bit in the end, emphasis on the S in Jack's case and more of an emotional type crush in Sam's, I quite like that interpretation.

[Frostfox]

That's interesting, that she sees the UST as a facet of Sam's and Jack's shared dysfunctionalness. Given that the UST was played a fair bit in the end, emphasis on the S in Jack's case and more of an emotional type crush in Sam's, I quite like that interpretation.

It's one I can live happily with.
I just wish they hadn't weakened Sam so much in the process. Or that there wasn't that double standard which means that Jack lusting after his junior officer is manley, while Sam crushing on her CO makes her all girly and fluffy and weak.
Amanda's opinion on the whole mess is, of course, entirely up to her. I do get annoyed that it always comes up in interviews, where as the male cast members don't get quizzed about it at every opportunity.

FF

[jdjunkie]

An interesting new insight into Amanda Tapping's views on her character's relationships.
She obviously likes the relationship between Sam and Jack more than we do, but she's not blind or stupid, she's quite aware that anything between them would have been an unmitigated disaster and that it was inappropriate.
She seems aware that Sam had a crush on a superior officer who she respected and genuinely cared for and is proud that the writers never devalued the characters by going down that route.

And I can totally understand that working with a charismatic actor like RDA would be a joy in itself.

Thoughts anyone?

FF

Well, I don't know. Over the years, I've learned to take anything Ms Tapping says about the ship with a pinch of salt. She wavers back and forth on the subject all the time, seeming pro, anti or netural depending on the audience.
I was at French City Con when she told the audience how she thought Sam was a good, strong role model for young women; career woman, focused etc etc. Ten minutes later, she was saying "Colonel, I love you" when asked to by a bunch of highly excitable and very young French shippers.
*shrugs* whatever.
The ship did nothing but harm to her character and if I was her I'd be ruddy well relieved it seems to have been consigned to the bottom of the script pile. Whatever happens in the movies ... and I still don't think they'll "go there" ... I can safely ignore it as being outwith the series, thank God.
jd

[scarimor]

I was at French City Con when she told the audience how she thought Sam was a good, strong role model for young women; career woman, focused etc etc. Ten minutes later, she was saying "Colonel, I love you" when asked to by a bunch of highly excitable and very young French shippers.
*shrugs* whatever.

Why shouldn't she? What she performs on stage at the request of excitable fans doesn't have squat to do with her view of the pesky ship. At AT2 she was up and down the aisles singing Bay City Rollers songs and Truly Scrumptious from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang for extra cash for the charity. She's great with the fans. Totally giving. But her views on the ship have stayed pretty constant, from the interviews I've read. And from what she said at AT2 as well - i.e. that a relationship between Sam and Jack would not have worked, and that it was never a sound possibility within the military framework of the series anyway.

It's one I can live happily with.
I just wish they hadn't weakened Sam so much in the process. Or that there wasn't that double standard which means that Jack lusting after his junior officer is manley, while Sam crushing on her CO makes her all girly and fluffy and weak.

Yeah, but that double standard is as much in the eye of the beholder (the viewer) as in the writing. Maybe more so. There are way more examples of Jack wanting Sam than Sam wanting Jack in the series, taken on an episode by episode basis. But over and over I hear that Sam's pining for him, not the other way round. It was Sam who said to leave it in the room.

[Frostfox]

Well, I don't know. Over the years, I've learned to take anything Ms Tapping says about the ship with a pinch of salt. She wavers back and forth on the subject all the time, seeming pro, anti or netural depending on the audience.
I was at French City Con when she told the audience how she thought Sam was a good, strong role model for young women; career woman, focused etc etc. Ten minutes later, she was saying "Colonel, I love you" when asked to by a bunch of highly excitable and very young French shippers.
*shrugs* whatever.
The ship did nothing but harm to her character and if I was her I'd be ruddy well relieved it seems to have been consigned to the bottom of the script pile. Whatever happens in the movies ... and I still don't think they'll "go there" ... I can safely ignore it as being outwith the series, thank God.
jd

I get the feeling she's too nice; she doesn't want to offend or hurt anyone so comes over as trying to please everyone while pleasing no one. She's in a difficult position, I don't envy her.

For most viewers it's closed canon now, only a fraction of the viewing public will buy the DVDs and they didn't 'go there' in the show. When people look back on the series in 10 years time, Sam and Jack retained their professionialism, that's what will matter.

FF

[scarimor]

I get the feeling she's too nice; she doesn't want to offend or hurt anyone so comes over as trying to please everyone while pleasing no one. She's in a difficult position, I don't envy her.

I think you're reading too much into it, really At AT2 she played calling up Teryl for an AU episode of Sam/Janet

[Frostfox]

I think you're reading too much into it, really At AT2 she played calling up Teryl for an AU episode of Sam/Janet

Mm, now that I would have paid to see.

FF

[jdjunkie]

Why shouldn't she? What she performs on stage at the request of excitable fans doesn't have squat to do with her view of the pesky ship. At AT2 she was up and down the aisles singing Bay City Rollers songs and Truly Scrumptious from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang for extra cash for the charity. She's great with the fans. Totally giving. But her views on the ship have stayed pretty constant, from the interviews I've read. And from what she said at AT2 as well - i.e. that a relationship between Sam and Jack would not have worked, and that it was never a sound possibility within the military framework of the series anyway.


Yeah, but that double standard is as much in the eye of the beholder (the viewer) as in the writing. Maybe more so. There are way more examples of Jack wanting Sam than Sam wanting Jack in the series, taken on an episode by episode basis. But over and over I hear that Sam's pining for him, not the other way round. It was Sam who said to leave it in the room.

But what she performs on stage feeds into people's perceptions of her view of the ship. It did mine (yeah, I know, that doesn't count for a whole hill of beans).
There's an early seasons DVD commentary where she said something along the lines of "they should never go there". Later on, it was "they should have a roll in the hay and get it over with," interspersed with smatterings of "sure, they're attracted to each other, there's great chemistry" etc etc.
I personally couldn't care less what her private opinion of the ship is, but it does seem to matter to a lot of her fans, and I agree with FF, she has to walk a very fine line. There are Sam fans who love S/J, hate S/J, liked Sam and Pete, or Sam and Martouf or Sam and Narim. She can't possibly keep everyone happy.
And I did see Sam pining for Jack. She may have said leave it in the room, but it was Sam who went to his house for that excruciating scene in Threads; it was Sam who sought Jack out for another embarrassing moment in Heroes; it was Sam who brought up the whole "Sir, about what I was going to say earlier" amid the flashing lights ....
It's all a matter of perception. I'd be curious to know when you saw it the other way round. All anti S/J ship talk is grist to the mill.
And which Bay City Rollers song was Amanda singing??? My money's on Shang a Lang ... and please tell me she wasn't wearing the tartan trews ... no woman should have to undergo that horror
jd

[scarimor]

But what she performs on stage feeds into people's perceptions of her view of the ship.

Well it can't be helped if people can't make a distinction

There's an early seasons DVD commentary where she said something along the lines of "they should never go there". Later on, it was "they should have a roll in the hay and get it over with," interspersed with smatterings of "sure, they're attracted to each other, there's great chemistry" etc etc.

Never go there with a relationship, go for a one-night-stand and get it out of their system - yes, exactly, that's been what she says all along. she said it again at AT2 last November. She's consistent.

I personally couldn't care less what her private opinion of the ship is, but it does seem to matter to a lot of her fans,

Not really. It might matter to some strong S/J ship fans, but not to her fans in general. Her opinion, as consistent as it is, is her opinion, not the show.

And I did see Sam pining for Jack. She may have said leave it in the room, but it was Sam who went to his house for that excruciating scene in Threads;

When I watched that scene I saw Jack being asked by his girlfriend if the only thing keeping them apart was the regs. His girlfriend sure as hell hadn't been watching Sam, she'd been watching Jack. I think it highly unlikely that Sam went to see Jack to ask him to marry her, lol! She'd just broken up with her fiance and wanted a friend to talk to - which she backed out of as soon as she saw he had company. Who wouldn't?

WoO, Moebius... all Jack going after Sam.

Ironically, I think some anti-shippers see a lot more ship in episodes than anyone else. For example:

it was Sam who sought Jack out for another embarrassing moment in Heroes;

There's no S/J ship in that episode! Gah!

it was Sam who brought up the whole "Sir, about what I was going to say earlier" amid the flashing lights ....

Not sure what you're talking about with that one either.

It's all a matter of perception. I'd be curious to know when you saw it the other way round. All anti S/J ship talk is grist to the mill.
And which Bay City Rollers song was Amanda singing??? My money's on Shang a Lang ... and please tell me she wasn't wearing the tartan trews ... no woman should have to undergo that horror
jd

lol, no, but it was a lot of fun. I can't remember which songs she sang - only that she asked, "Any requests?" and the inevitable ensued

[jdjunkie]

Hmmm. Consistent inconsistency, that's what I see Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
And as for Threads ... if Sam wasn't trying to make her feelings clear to Jack, what was with the "I'm sorry to bother you with this, but uh, see, there's actually a very good reason that I'm bothering you with this, and if I don't tell you now, I might never…" stuttering stuff? She'd gone there to tell him how she felt about him, not to seek solace from a friend. If all she'd gone there for was that, why was she sitting in the car beforehand obviously trying to pluck up the courage?
And I'm not solely blaming Sam for the ship debacle. Jack was far from blameless.
I just hate what it did to Sam's character. I loved the Sam of Solitudes and Singualarity ... the Sam of Threads and Lost City, not so much.
I've enjoyed her much more in seasons nine and ten when the spectre of the ship has been mercifully absent.
And you do realise that now I've got Summer Love Sensation and All of Me Loves All of You going round in my head .... and, dreadful confession, I have pictorial evidence of me in my tartan cut-offs sporting an I love Woody scarf. True blackmail material ....Gah.
jd