I couldn't help but notice that throughout this episode, Daniel looked incredibly bored by everything that was going on around him. When Jack was "snaked", Daniel just looked bored by the whole thing, while Sam cringed and looked away.
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I've written the review for Seth. But besides the fact that, as usual, it's too long, I think I sound mean because of all the plot holes I've found and whereas I usually just find this episode boring -- this time it made me mad! I didn't expect that. No episode of SG1 has ever given me that emotion before.
So, I've got stuff that has to get done. Afterwards, I'll sit down and try to shorten it and take the acid out of my comments. Then I'll post it later today.sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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I wouldn't mind reading your original review, Ramona - I think it's okay to have mixed feelings in regard to some of the episodes and things that happens along the way
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Thanks SamCarterIsMyMuse.. I am trying to edit it down and remove the sting out of it some. I love everything 'Gate and by golly, I'm going to find a way to love this episode!
sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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SETH
Stargate SG1 Season 3; Episode 2
The episode opens with stock footage of the entry gate to Cheyenne Mountain that we don’t get to see that often. It’s a nice change. (And goodness knows, this episode can use all the help it can get. Just my opinion.)
The SGC has a visitor – it’s retired Air Force General/Tokra sometime secret agent/always Sam’s dad - Jacob Carter. Jacob announces he’s on a goa’uld hunt and needs SG1’s help tracking down the missing system lord known in ancient times as Setesh and a myriad of other names, including an a/k/a of Seth.
Jacob sets up a really cool looking device that emits a hologram in the middle of the conference table. It’s a family tree of the goa’uld system lords. Looking at the device, Daniel runs down the results of the Tokra census, listing the system lords and their hierarchy. Sam is fascinated by the technology – Daniel, the human mythology being borne out as history. Daniel informs us that Satesh is the fake god of chaos, hostility and outright evil. (Hmmm, seems like the goa’uld all seem to have a similar playbook to varying degrees.) Seth has a price on his head set by the other system lords because at one point, he tried to overthrow Ra. The system lords placed a price on Seth’s head and “alive” is not on the wanted poster. This price on his head is why Seth never left earth but is still here, hiding amongst us. Da-da-daaa.
* * *
Sam good naturedly tries to get Jacob to admit that he requested this assignment so that he can see her. Here we get a glimpse of the wedge that Jacob and his stubborn machismo has caused with his children (although, with the help of Selmak, he and Sam have worked past their problems for the most part). While there is no doubt he loves his daughter, he cannot admit he might have made a special effort to visit her. And, the stubborn old goat, may not have! Selmac decides to pipe up and say that he is the one that requested the assignment as he, Selmac, is troubled by Jacobs relationship, or lack thereof, with his son, Mark. Sam brings up the fact that Mark was unwilling to take her call even while Jacob lay on his death bed. Jacob comes to the forefront to dispute Sam’s assertion that Jacob was hurt by Mark’s attitude and we can all see that he was, and still is, very hurt by his venomous denial. But, alas, like many guys, he can only express it in Jerk-ease.
Daniel does his research thing and actually finds Seth through searching the FBI’s files on cults. The urgency is upped to locate Seth when it is revealed that all his past cults have ended in mass suicide. Teal’c is familiar with Setesh’s Jaffa guard. At Jack’s insistence, he relates a hilarious Jaffa joke regarding the helmet’s of Setesh’s Jaffa:
A serpent guard, Horus guard, and Setesh guard meet on a mutual planet.
It is a tense moment.
The serpent guard’s eyes… glow.
The Horus guard’s beak… glistens.
The Setesh guard’s nose… drips.
*whisper* Apparently, it loses something in the translation. (Or, SG1 has no apparent sense of humor having their funny bones dulled by forced multiple viewings of The Simpsons or The Three Stooges commanding officer must think it contributes to team building or something
) Personally, I think Teal’c is probably a riot in the Jaffa locker room. (Besides, I bet most Jaffa would be afraid not to laugh at one of his jokes.)
* * *
SG1 gets an escort from the local sheriff of a small town in north Seattle. Jack is very respectful to said sheriff, which makes you wonder at his attitude later on to the lead ATF officer.
As the sheriff departs leaving SG1 on the side of the road, about three quarters of a mile outside Seth’s compound, a middle-aged man approaches. He identifies himself as Jason Levinson. He’s been camped outside the compound for a month hoping for a glimpse of his son Tommy, who has been a member of the cult for 9 months. Mr. Levinson is a bit creepy as he looks at Jacob and confrontationally says “You’re the father, right? Your son is in there.” I mean, what makes him think Jacob, who is dressed exactly like the rest of the team, isn’t military is beyond me. And why assume Jacob has a son as opposed to a daughter in the compound. Like I said – creepy. Either that or some footage landed on the cutting room floor that would have explained his attitude. I do get that perhaps Mr. Levinson doesn’t realize SG1 is military as they are devoid of their team patches or military insignia. He could think they’re hired mercenaries as he does ask them if they’re “deprogrammers”.
During recon of the compound, Sam, ever the efficient officer, reports that in addition to the AK47’s, she’s observed the guards carrying zats. Oh yeah, boi-ey, we got a goa’uld in residence. (By the way, Teal’c has his zat out in front of Mr. Levinson. smh at this episode.) As SG1 attempts to exit the compound back to the main road, they are halted by a rag tag group of heavily armed men pointing guns directly at them.
***
SG1 has been escorted to the ATF encampment where we can see the agents putting on their jackets with the identifying letters A-T-F. Whew, SG1 is not in trouble… yet.
Special agent James Hamner identifies himself and asks Jack what interest the air force has in this situation. Jack replies “it’s classified” to every one of Agent Hamner’s questions in a tone that says “you’re an idiot and I wouldn’t tell you if I could”. Agent Hamner decides to ignore Jack by addressing his superior officer - to Jacob: “You have a rather insubordinate subordinate, General.” To which Jacob replies “Not to me, he isn't. Only to people such as yourself. Saves me the trouble.” Very cool Jacob. Way to back Jack up in spite of the fact that Jack was being very d*ckish. (Sorry but I can’t think of a better word to describe his behavior. And how is it I still love Jack even when he’s being that way? And now I’m crushing a wee tad bit on Jacob after that display of machismo. Must be the whole bad boy thing.)
Jack then arranges to have the President of the United States call Agent Hamner, telling him command of the operation has been transferred to Jack. Pretty impressive, I must say. (In the conversation between Jack and Agent Hamner, Jack sarcastically says “Didn’t you say that you know more than I do?” Confirmation that something was never filmed or cut from the script/tape as Agent Hamner never said, or even implied, such. Maybe if we had the missing elements this episode wouldn’t be so, so… I don’t know but it’s missing SOMETHING.) Jack does eventually extend an olive branch to Agent Hamner by giving him a tidbit of semi-misinformation.
After putting the ATF out of their own surveillance tent, Jacob explains that Seth is probably using a form of mind control called “nishta”, stronger than the drug that Hathor used on our guys.
Mr. Levinson enters the tent trying to find out what information this SG1 has gathered, possibly about his son, Tommy. Jacob informs him the tent is off limits but agrees Mr. Levinson can help himself to a cup of coffee. Mr. Levinson spills coffee on his own hand and lets out a yelp causing Teal’c to go into full Jaffa-General-Assassin mode. I thought it was a bit of an overreaction on Teal’c’s part, but see, Teal’c finds Mr. Levinson creepy as well, so I’ll stand by my initial assessment – creepy dude. Mr. Levinson apologizes for his outburst (nobody thought to re-shoot this scene as his “outburst” was minimal? – sheesh. I mean, it’s weird seeing Teal’c so freaked out when they have been in far worst imminent danger than this where he's Mr.EverCalm). Teal’c is just as perplexed by human parents’ dynamics with their children. We see Jacob begin to have an epiphany as Teal’c asks “How could a father not speak to his son for so long a time?” And Jacob’s reply of “Sometimes it’s complicated”, which probably sufficed for his own conscience up until now, but which seems seared by Teal’c simple “Many things are complicated in Jaffa society, General Carter, loving one’s children is not one of them.” Of course, this is spoken by someone whose child is not even a teenager yet, and we know what he has to face as Rya’c matures. Which just goes to show that even aliens will give you great advice on parenting…until they have a teenager/adult child of their own to deal with. *sigh* Some things are universal the universe over.
The rest of the team is already entering the compound wearing inner ear hearing aids modified by Sam to emit a slight electrical shock to their bodies once Jacob and Teal’c decide it’s time to wake the team up from whatever hocus pocus Seth uses on them. One catch though, Jacob says the nishta must be allowed to penetrate every part of their bodies. If it is not allowed to run it’s course through the body, it will hide in the unaffected cells and reassert itself even stronger – so as to be permanent!
As SG1 stealthily navigates the compound’s tunnels, Daniel decides now is a good time to let the team know how Seth has utilized his congregation in the past – women become part of his harem and men are either guards in the outer court or, if selected for the inner court, rendered eunuchs! You can imagine how Jack took the news – with his usual aplomb - “Snippity do dah.”
The little room they end up in reminds me of the room in The Fifth Race with the head sucky thingee. But no such device reaches out of the wall but instead, rings drop around them and transports them to Seth’s inner sanctum where they are surrounded by armed guards. SG1 has no intention of fighting back as these are just innocent brainwashed young people.
Seth doses them with nishta. As Jack keels over he says “So help me, if I wake up singing soprano…” and it’s lights out.
Upon waking, the team is gathered to pay homage to Seth who demands they chant his praises. As so often is the case, Jack is brainwashed yet somehow cannot bring himself to full out participation in adulation (see his lack of enthusiasm for motto recitation in Beneath the Surface). But as Seth leans in close to Sam, he senses her previous blending with a goa’uld! He begins to question them about who sent them (which frankly, how does he expect them to answer when he knows he just nuked their memories *shrugs*). Jack comes up with a pretty good excuse but somehow Seth knows he’s lying. (If anybody has an answer to how he knew, clue me in please?) But it’s getting intense and as Teal’c and Jacob are listening in, they decide they have no other choice but to send the electric shock in order to wake SG1, even though if the nishta has not run it’s course they could eventually become permanent Seth worshippers!
Seth orders Tommy, Mr. Levinson’s son, to kill SG1. Jack over powers Tommy and takes his weapon while Sam zats him, the electrical current breaking the nishta’s affect. Tommy then leads them to the arsenal where SG1 grabs some zats. (The actor playing Tommy must be a producer’s son-in-law or something. *I’m just sayin’*)
SG1 then sets about easily zapping all the Seth groupies using two-handed zat technique. They then round them up to fit as many as they can into the rings circle to transport them to the small circular room that leads to the tunnels that lead to the surface. I note that Jack holds one of the groupie’s hands out and activates the ring’s control bracelet that is on the groupie’s hand. Since he sent the groupies in multiple groups, did he have multiple bracelets? And how did he and Daniel ring up if he sent the bracelet with the last group? Also, Seth touches the back of his hand device (where there are no buttons, just smooth metal) to activate the rings. I don’t think we’ve ever seen that before or since. I love SG1, but sometimes I regret re-watching and finding plot holes that I never noticed in the earlier viewings.
sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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Seth Part II
Seth has found his way into the tunnels to blend in among his followers. As Jack yells to Sam to let her know Seth is among those she is trying to escort to the surface, he runs through the groupies snatching off their hoods (which were not on when they exited but… oh well).
Jacob and Seth have an altercation in which Seth uses his hand device and sends Jacob flying across the tunnel. Jacob hands off his hand device to Sam and tells her she can do it…and boy does she ever! Seth doesn’t know when he’s been beat and pushes the issue. That inner coil of steel inside Sam is transferred to the hand device and Seth is not only dead, but inside-the-concrete-dead! Jack seems perturbed and perplexed by Sam’s heretofore unseen power, but then, in true Scarecrow form has quickly thought it through and decides it’s a good thing with a “Hail, Dorothy!” acknowledgment.
The episode ends on a poignant note of Jacob and Sam being invited into Mark’s house for family reconciliation. (Forgive me fellow fans, but I just do not like Mark – not his offscreen persona or the self-righteous look of the glimpse we got of him. He probably deserves better but I can’t muster it up for him. *Hmmmm, wonder if he’s cousin to the actor playing Tommy?*)
Shippy moment as seen purely through Shipper Shippy Glasses:
While Sam is modifying the hearing aids,
Jack: Carter?
Sam: It’ll work, assuming Dad’s right.
Jack: Dad?
2nd Shippy Glasses Moment:
Jack sends Sam up with the groupies. Could it be to protect her from remaining in the compound with a mad goa’uld?
Darn Zat inconsistencies:
SG1 zats Tommy and he leans against the wall for all of 2 seconds and then is able to lead SG1 to the zat storage cabinet.
SG1 zats large groups of groupies who are not rendered unconscious but are instantly mobile. (But hey, the episode was running out of time so…)
Badazzery Moment:
Jack’s rudeness to the ATF agent. Intellectually I don’t like his uncalled for rudeness. My lady parts, however, think “Bazinga!”
Baddest Badazzery Moment:
Another baddy learns do not mess with Major Samantha Carter!
Coolest of the Cool Moment:
Teal’c states that the symbol of Setesh is oscillating on the system lord’s family tree thingee. Daniel, in a surprised voice says “that IS the symbol for Setesh!” Teal’c merely arches his eyebrow. He doesn’t even lower himself to say “Indeed” when he could have leveled Daniel for being smart alecky and doubting that Teal’c would be correct when we all know Teal’c doesn’t speak unless he is sure or it is necessary. So there!
Favorite Line:
Jack: Jaffa Jokes. Let’s hear one of them.
Behind the Scenes Kudos
Costume department which incorporated Setish’s animal symbol onto his belt buckle.
Prop department for including, not only Share on Daniel’s desk, but him sitting aboard a mastesh (I think that was the name of the animal that dragged Daniel in the original movie? Or perhaps it is a camel in Eygpt but I like to think it’s a nod back to the movie.)
This episode had time to show the jet flight of SG1 to Seattle but IMO could have filled in or ironed out the more questionable moments with that time instead.
Again, I apologize for the acerbic quality to this review. I only chose it because it seemed no one else wanted it and I thought I could find some good things in it as I appreciate most episodes even for their small tidbits of insight into our heroes’ characters.sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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Great review, had me chuckling/snorting through a lot of it.
I remember rolling my eyes at Tommy's father and his reaction towards Jacob. It was such an obvious plot device because naturally all this drama would make Jacob think twice about his attitude towards his own son, especially after reuniting the Levinsons and he decides Selmak is right and will make amends with Mark as soon as he can!
Thought it was funny you commented on Teal'c's advice about the father-son relationship in light of how badly his own relationship with Rya'c was and how he basically left him on a different planet without warning when he first joined the SGC. Then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he just dumps his kid with Bra'tac when Drey'auc dies! Oh yeah, I'd listen to Teal'c for parenting advice...
I don't recall if Stuart O'Connell (Tommy) was a bad actor but the lexicon doesn't mention any special relationship for him (or anyone else in this episode), so it's unlikely he's related to TPTB. Normally they have a little asterisk to note this actor is the spouse of someone on the show (actor or behind the scene), a character was named for a person on the crew or someone's child, etc. and there is nothing there for this ep.
I don't recall the thing with the ring device but I do know Osiris later on has a little button attached to her ribbon device to beam and ring herself up. The ring device was in The Curse to ring herself up to her hidden ship and that ship and ribbon had been stored there for a long time, so it wouldn't be unrealistic for Seth having something similar. Later on she also has the same or a similar thing to beam herself up, after her alliance with Anubis. But yeah, a bit silly for Jack to send those kids up with the device on their wrists. Unless of course he figured Jacob also could activate it with his ribbon device (did we even know he had one with him prior to his confrontation with Seth and handing it to Sam?) or something.
I must say I really liked the way Sam, uh, handled Seth and thought it was pretty cool how he ended up. One of the better moments of this so-so episode and too bad we never saw her do something similar again, but I can understand her being a bit scared of it herself (Jack wasn't the only one who looked shocked) and avoiding its use. Not to mention it's probably very draining on her, especially since she's a former host and has less naquadah in her system than an actual host.
Thought it was a shame this was the only time we ever saw Mark - and just a glimpse too! Would have been nice to see a bit more interaction with the Carters, instead of just dropping his name every now and then (and using him to set Sam up with the cop friend) which was also done very sparingly.
Oh and about Jack's attitude towards the ATF: I think it's an agency/organization thing. There's always some sort of rivalry/hate toward a different agency/organization (especially if they're an abbreviation of 3 letters) in TV shows, like CIA/FBI, NCIS/CIA, NCIS/FBI, etc. Same for police precincts vs precincts/agency in TV land because they're all afraid the other will want jurisdiction and take their case, or 'collaborate' with one (often initial agency) doing all the hard work and the rival taking all the credit in the press. So, I didn't really think anything of it. It's also possible Jack was being an ass to keep the guy away, because he didn't want any innocent bystanders mixed up in it but maybe that's just my wishful thinking!
SJ_green.gifUnmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.Comment
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Thanks fems, but believe me, if you can bear to rewatch this monster, it's not just inter-agency territorial stuff. Jack comes out of the blue with it and like I said, Jack later quotes the agent with something we never see/hear him say or imply. If the writers meant it as natural agency turf war, they didn't make it look that way IMO.Originally posted by fems View PostSpoilered for spaceSpoiler:
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Agree about Teal'c. Not only the instances you mention, but the turmoil Rya'c went through upon the death of his mother and his relationship with Teal'c at that point was far worse than Jacob's and Mark's. And then there was Teal'c's hissy fit and interference with Rya'c's decision to marry. lol
As to Seth's wrist device, that's why I commented that it had no buttons, no jewels - nothing. He just lightly passed his finger over the smooth metal around his wrist.
I was being sarcastic and probably just plain mean about the actors in saying they must be related to someone to have gotten the job. Although the staff is guilty of doing that. A few times I've wondered the same when I see a really out of shape or less than impressive Jaffa. (I like the beefcake. What can I say XD)
I think this ep is soooo slow that in past rewatches, I never paid close attention enough to spot all these little details. Other episodes, I watch all the little things, but this one was always a "just get thru it" type of thing.sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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Great review, I have to agree with you, I usually skip it on a rewatch because it annoys me. I agree with an awful lot of those problems/plot holes too.
The Zat discrepancies continued way into series 6 and probably beyond. In Paradise Lost, Maybourne Zat's both Sam and Jack straight after one another. Sam is practically knocked out and can barely move, save for a quick lift of the head to see Jack disappear, but Jack gets straight up and attacks Maybourne? *Eyebrow raises mimicking Teal'c* Why make a point of showing it renders people unconscious for a period of time, if humans are suddenly going to become immune whenever the need arises?
I agree about the hand devices and ring platform, it is definitely an enigma. Perhaps we were to assume that Jacob came prepared with the hand device (something the Tok'ra stole from the Goa'uld?) as Selmak knew Setesh/Seth/Set/Seti (etc etc) would probably have one and it could be hard to kill him without using one against him. As for the lack of buttons on Seth's device, pffff, not a clue. We know ring platforms can be controlled by symbol combinations on the keypad in ships, perhaps there was one hidden in the fireplace controlled by thought or something ridiculous - it was poorly thought out.
I see where you're coming from with Mark, can't really remember enough of Tommy except that he was rather wet, and that probably says it all. I don't know why but that scene with Mark always annoys me, I think its the silence, that no one says anything. I know its supposed to be poignant but it ends up seeming very odd - you've not spoken to someone for god knows how many years and you just hug them? Are you not going to ask them what they're doing on your doorstep? Or at least look taken aback and not constipated?
Anyway, I think this episode annoys you as much as it does me. It's good to have this kinds of reviews, great platform for debates and discussions of the things that aren't perfect.Don't get it right, get it written - Unknown, they haven't decided who said it firstIf you want something in life, you have to work for it
Turn off lights not in use, buy local produce where possible, recycle all you can. Help save YOUR planet.Comment
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Thanks for a great review, Ramona I rewatched the episode in December when I was making gifs from it. I must admit that I don't remember paying much attention to the plot holes 
What I do remember is the very funny joke Teal'c is telling, I really don't understand why the rest of SG-1 don't get it - but then again, the friend who introduced me to SG-1 doesn't think it's funny either...
Sam looks so shocked - she killed Seth, but doesn't look happy about it at all.Originally posted by RamonaThePest View Post
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I always figured the differences in reaction to being zatted was down to tolerance and perhaps different settings/strength (like intars), although the latter seems a bit silly when it already has 3 (stun, kill, delete). But really, I always kinda interpreted it as bigger/stronger folks being able to recover quicker, especially if they've been zatted often (like Jack). The difference between Sam and Jack in Paradise Lost could be because she's smaller/less muscled and a woman, plus I always thought Jack had been zatted more often than the rest. But it's possible I'm wrong on that account, it's just that Jack usually takes the brunt of the pain by design to protect his team.
But yeah, zat inconsistencies are bad, especially when there's no (in-show) explanation for them. I would probably be bothered by it as well if I were to do a rewatch within a few months.Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
On FFnet or AO3
My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.Comment
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Like you, fems, most of the zat inconsistencies I have been able to excuse for the same reasons you give, size, toughness, etc. But this zat of Tommy in Seth just even looks stupid! He doesn't even go down on one knee (that part is not the actor's fault.). But why not do away with the shot of the plane arriving or the arrival by car and at least have the boy seem, oh, I don't know, maybe stunned? *cheeky*sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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On to more shippy things.
Is this the first time Jack calls Jacob "Dad"?
I totally get the whole Wizard of Oz thing now.
Jack = Scarecrow (brilliant but not too bright)
Daniel = Tinman (heart has compassion for everyone yet his has been torn out, being possesed by Apophis)
Teal'c = (Afraid of nothing yet terrified he will not succeed and win freedom for his people)
Dorothy = Sam (Of course. The center hub around whom everyone else revolves
Aunt Em and Uncle Henry = Janet and Gen. Hammond (NOT saying they're a couple!)
I'm sure you guys can label them better and I'd love to see it. Although, if I know this thread, it's probably been done before in the archives.sigpicRamonaThePest (you know, Henry Huggins' friend)Comment
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Jack only calls jacob "Dad" one other time and that's in jolinar's memories. He says "maybe it's "Dad" and Sam just smiles and says "maybe"Comment
My Fics - the fluffy/silly variety
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