Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Gormagon]

Eh?

I thought Destiny was launched 1million years ago.

[thekillman]

Based upon the people Rush talked to when he said it was launched hundreds of thousands of years ago, i'd say it was a VERY rough estimate.

I mean, even the writers themselves clearly had no idea how crazily long a million years is. the entire Ancient history would've easily fitted in 1000 years. if you made a TV show about it, some 30 years would've done the trick.

Anyway, the writers said that Destiny was a project before the Ancients found out about ascension, and Ascension was known before the Plague, and Atlantis went to Pegasus after the plague, and Atlantis was launched between 7 and 10 million years ago, so obviously it's older than 10 million years.

[blackluster]

race designs...

[Gormagon]

Mhmm. The time line is kind of fraked up. Some estimates range from 100million years of Ancient history to 65million years to 15.

As you say though technology advances based on need. Mostly. I doubt they needed to make much technical advancement at all over very very long periods of time. Hundreds of thousands of years using the same design of toaster for example. If it works perfectly do not fix it, especially with no pressing need to improve anything. Add onto that that the Ancients probably became so advanced it was very difficult to advanced their technology much further.

When you take an objective view really the only race that seriously compete with their technology is the Asgard who had an extra 10k years, the chance to study part of an Ancient data base, and a war with techno bugs to help them advance. The Tollan are comparable in a few areas. The Nox...dont know. They have powerful natural abilities, but mostly unknown technology. A floating city is a far cry from a flying city though. Although who knows? Perhaps they had flying cities.

[thekillman]

The asgard were far more powerful before the writers decided to nerf them. the APBW is IMO the kind of stuff we'd see from the Asgard when they're not constantly getting their asses handed by the Replicators.

Thor's remark on the Repository was one to illustrate the sheer size of it, not the power it held

[Gormagon]

Thor's remark on the Repository was one to illustrate the sheer size of it, not the power it held

Partially true, but I would assume the power in knowledge it held would have helped the Asgard along, as would have the alliance of four great races because of the exchange of technology and knowledge that that would have meant. I also do not believe they could have come up with a weapon that could disrupt Ori shield technology without having some access to Ancient knowledge. "We retrieved a small part of the Ancient data base. Our scientists have been studying it for as long as I can remember, and we have barely scratched the surface."-Paraphrasing Thor. I do believe that would show that the Ancients knew a frak of a lot more then the Asgard. Hey, I bet they got part of the Ancient data base as a gift. I bet the Nox and Furlings did as well.

The Ancients are referred to repeatedly in the series as the most advanced/oldest/greatest race that ever existed. True? Possibly. Possibly not. But it is quite obvious that the Asgard received a serious technological leap with the designing of the O'Neill class ship. Considering how ineffective an older Biliskner was against two Anubis Ha'tak that were upgraded with a rudimentary understanding of Ancient weapon/shield technology.

The Asgard are still awesome of course, a terrible loss to the Stargate universe. They had just not been around as long as the Ancients. They appeared to have had two main advantages in the speed of their hyperdrives and their beaming technology.

[thekillman]

I do believe that would show that the Ancients knew a frak of a lot more then the Asgard. Hey, I bet they got part of the Ancient data base as a gift. I bet the Nox and Furlings did as well.

Then why the Alliance of Four Great Races to, paraphrasing here, share knowledge and ideas?

Like i said, if the Ancients are by miles the most advanced, then the Alliance would've been "the Order of the Ancients" where the Ancients talk and the rest listens.

The Repository holds a great deal of knowledge, yes. But that doesn't mean it's all pure gold. It likely contains the knowledge, memories and experiences of thousands of Ancients.

I also do not believe they could have come up with a weapon that could disrupt Ori shield technology without having some access to Ancient knowledge.

The Asgard were well aware on how to bypass shields, especially since the Replicators used it against them all the time.

[Gormagon]

But Ancient shields?

[thekillman]

Cmon, the Pegasgard could do it

[Gormagon]

Hmmm.....because they had a galaxy full of left over Ancient tech facilities and ships to study!!!

[McAvoy]

It is certainly possible that the Ancients just dabbled in everything and probably did not master it all. The Asgard probably focused on certain areas such as weapons and defense to defeat the Replicators and so forth.

The other thing too and I have to check but didn't the Ancients have to start over when they left the Ori Galaxy (assuming they came from there)? Maybe not start over as in stick and rocks to bows and arrows etc. But redevelop technology they may have left behind.

Hell there could be a huge gap where a few Ancient Empires fell and went back to the stone age to start over again. Or they had a crippling war with an unknown race they managed to defeat but was severely weakened from the war.

[Gormagon]

It is certainly possible that the Ancients just dabbled in everything and probably did not master it all. The Asgard probably focused on certain areas such as weapons and defense to defeat the Replicators and so forth.

Hell there could be a huge gap where a few Ancient Empires fell and went back to the stone age to start over again. Or they had a crippling war with an unknown race they managed to defeat but was severely weakened from the war.

True, to true. From what we saw on the show the Ancients could have been "Red mages" powerful and diverse but not too specialized. I have always thought of the Ancients as being more advanced then any cannon race in general technology.

[Crazy Tom]

You mean why Gorm plans to gift a fruit basket or Asgard Powercore?

BTW, Tom--I recall a while ago you mentioned you enjoyed and had read much of the Honor Harrington space opera novel series. I got into it much after that, and I'm not as enthused as I first was, but enjoyed the ride.

The quality did drop off as the series went on.

How strong are the Machai compared to a standard human? And reaction times and such?

True, but it would only be a relative power increase.

The Houjin use a combination of thorium fission reactors and fusion reactors for Civil power.

How exactly do you move energy between thrust and power Killman?

[Gormagon]

I have read some of those books. The Honor series. I won quite a few actually.

[thekillman]

How exactly do you move energy between thrust and power Killman?

By drawing energy from the fusion reaction in their fusion engines. It would reduce thrust. Similar to how jet engines power fighter craft. part of the power produced in a turbine is tapped off to produce electricity. that reduces thrust.

the same principle applies to the Machai engines. The same systems that prevent the engine from melting can be used to "reclaim" so to speak some of the power lost, and the cooling can be increased to draw more power at the cost of thrust.

It is certainly possible that the Ancients just dabbled in everything and probably did not master it all. The Asgard probably focused on certain areas such as weapons and defense to defeat the Replicators and so forth.

The asgard were better in hyperdrive and transporter technology. We simply CAN not know about power, because if the Asgard were to build a ZPM, the Replicators would've taken it out of the socket and used it to power themselves. Same applies to City Ships: it's simply too big of a target.


As to weapons technology: we have never seen a Drone penetrate an Asgard shield, and i would say they can not. Todd did say he was afraid a single drone would take out the hyperdrive, but the Puddlejumper would have to get inside the shield to get onboard, so obviously that's not conclusive evidence at all.

The Asgard are modulation mages so to speak, as they have shown to make quite some use of it, and the Replicators did too. the Ancients on the other hand seem to deal more with sheer firepower.