Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

fusion will likely be the main source of power, replacing the big coal plants.

but remember that such power plants are built to last at least 30 years. so it'll take at least until 2040 before we get rid of the last coal plant.

and i think we'll have plenty of renewable and nuclear power.

the first things to appear will probably be fusion or fission powered torch-ships meant for science missions to the planets of the solar system. Hmm....

or a mining expedition to some big asteroid containing Rare Earth metals

[Davidtourniquet]

indeed. i loved the irony: we stopped entire fleets from attacking the earth and revealing the gate, yet one ship is enough to force the cat out of the bag.


IMO the revelation was more of a "correcting canon" thing than a major, world-shattering event.

in fact, the entire fleet has pretty much been set up that everyone's over the whole deal and is focusing on far more important tasks, like *still* removing the mess left over from the ori and the goauld, and rebuilding the galaxy. well actually more like building on the ashes.

because isn't that what the Tau'ri-LA war is about? how the future generation will look back and see us now? it's the victors that write history, so the outcome of the war WILL determine how everyone will see everyone. the Tau'ri as heroes or as a bunch of screwups with way too much luck on their hands.


it's ultimately a war of staking out the claims. and i think that "part II" where the Aschen come along, is the part where the war is already pretty much decided and most cards have been played, and the colors are chosen

What you could have a one hatak crashing near a very heavily populated area and everyone seeing it. It goes on the free media and soon it's everywhere. The governments have no choice but to disclose it.

[thekillman]

not needed. even if it burned up in the atmosphere, the recent mapping of near earth objects would make any scientist very sceptic.

i think it would be an event which doesn't necessarily need to be seen by a whole lot of people. every telescope in the world seeing an 800m object not burn up in the atmosphere and even slowing down before crashing would be enough. eventually the government will realize they can't cover it up as the next meteor because everyone has seen that it's not how meteors behave. so the government decides to reveal the truth

[Davidtourniquet]

Having a object survive re-entry is a lot harder to cover up than something burning up. A few scientists saying it's a ship compared to several governments saying it's a meteor is nothing. You have it crash near a populated area with the governments having no time to scramble an evacuation, that's disclosure right there.

[morrismike]

Hey, have not had time to check up on all the posts but here something cool.

And here- http://news.yahoo.com/physics-atom-s...232412931.html

That first item is very interesting. Vapor deposite some carbon on that to stiffen it up and you've have something.

[immhotep]

Getting close to finishing it. Its not by best design, if im honest, but im a little rusty! I like it though.

[thekillman]

as a -future- mechanical engineer, i can tell you that the first design rarely is the final.



i watched James cameron's Avatar recently, and it did re-spark some of my old thoughts.

it made me realize that what Earth is doing isn't charity. we need to fund the Stargate Programm somehow. granted, it's not a buisness enterprise, but it needs some sort of justification.


not just peacekeeping and war prevention.

ultimately the war with the LA is about something, and i was thinking what that something would be, aside from the obvious difference of opinion.


and i thought: it's PR. they fight about PR. the PR of -primarily- SG1 and the events during the SGC's operation.

why?

well obviously SG1 directly and indirectly marked the galaxy. they were (partially) reponsible for destroying the goauld AND the Ori.


but those two forces changed the galaxy a great deal. basically, the LA sees them as a bunch of lucky Fck ups (which to some degree, they definitely were), and Earth sees itself as the one group capable of doing what had to be done.



one interesting spark was about the origins of the LA. not just that "bunch of thieves and misfits" things.

one concept was that the Lucian Alliance is a decennia-old idea. not sure how i'd fill it in, but in essence the legend goes that over 2000 years ago, on a planet free of goauld reign, a planet protected by the Asgard, one person concieved the idea of an alliance of planets. an alliance to stand up and protect it's members.

the idea was then used as a guise by the first Alliance, and the second, current Alliance is basically closer to that root: an interplanetary alliance to protect their members from internal and external conflict.


(not without it's perks and profits, but if it's not banned by law, they technically aren't unlawful).

the real question is, how much law is left after the goauld?

[immhotep]

as a -future- mechanical engineer, i can tell you that the first design rarely is the final.

Well aware Been doing this a while lol. Im going to have to edit the history down to fit it in to one post :/

i watched James cameron's Avatar recently, and it did re-spark some of my old thoughts.

it made me realize that what Earth is doing isn't charity. we need to fund the Stargate Programm somehow. granted, it's not a buisness enterprise, but it needs some sort of justification.

Well trade is certainly the main funding stream. We could maintain the gate program through the military because it was secret and effectively small scale. We needed more partners as things got more about peacekeeping and war, than about exploration. Once we made those advanced in technology and its applications, it obviously had to be expanded in to the private sector. This has been seen a number of times, and its not always been good (alex colson, the trust, the NID etc) but its a neccisary evil.

In terms of the avatar scenareo of strip mining planets for ores etc. I think there will be large scale mining companies. Big business and industry, in many cases unlike anything the galaxy has previously witnessed. Even under the goauld where it was harsh, it would not be as intensive and as profit driven as we will do it. Our system of economy is about minimal imput, maximum return. This is not that case with the goauld, it is about power and sustainability.

not just peacekeeping and war prevention.

ultimately the war with the LA is about something, and i was thinking what that something would be, aside from the obvious difference of opinion.


and i thought: it's PR. they fight about PR. the PR of -primarily- SG1 and the events during the SGC's operation.

why?

well obviously SG1 directly and indirectly marked the galaxy. they were (partially) reponsible for destroying the goauld AND the Ori.

I dont think its a PR opperation perse, SG1 and the SGC have a good reputation in the galaxy certainly, and have done some very impressive feats. But the humans are not always trusted and their ability to shift the galaxy in unknown ways, creating power vacuums overnight and such things. Makes them unpredictable while powerful. I would say in terms of the LA, I would say its a competition war. The LA has been made a viable opperation through the efforts and effects the SGC and Earth have had on the galaxy. They are not opportunists in the classic sense but an opposing reaction to what Earth created. We created an unstable galaxy, thus they are an unstable opposition to what may have formed because of it, ie the Jaffa and Earth dominance.

but those two forces changed the galaxy a great deal. basically, the LA sees them as a bunch of lucky Fck ups (which to some degree, they definitely were), and Earth sees itself as the one group capable of doing what had to be done.

Indeed. We were lucky, we also were new, and that was an important thing that we must remind ourselves of. The context of Earth's industry, economic system and politics, is in terms of the galaxy, Alien. Not the other way around. If we expand in neo colonial form, impose capitalism, democracy and Earth style trade and industry galaxy wide. That is a revolution beyond anything SG1 has done in defeating the goauld. That will be the biggest legacy of SG1, allowing that to happen. The LA is not capable of competing on these terms because the LA is dependant on a relationship with chaos, of the former regime, that cannot exist forever. That is why the Aschen are such an important cornerstone in this fleet and in the previous ones. They are the only other human power that we have seen that is comparable, and capable of competing with Earth on a playing field that is equal.

one interesting spark was about the origins of the LA. not just that "bunch of thieves and misfits" things.

one concept was that the Lucian Alliance is a decennia-old idea. not sure how i'd fill it in, but in essence the legend goes that over 2000 years ago, on a planet free of goauld reign, a planet protected by the Asgard, one person concieved the idea of an alliance of planets. an alliance to stand up and protect it's members.

the idea was then used as a guise by the first Alliance, and the second, current Alliance is basically closer to that root: an interplanetary alliance to protect their members from internal and external conflict.


(not without it's perks and profits, but if it's not banned by law, they technically aren't unlawful).

the real question is, how much law is left after the goauld?

I see this as the role of the Aschen, not the Lucian Alliance. I think however we spin the Aschen history, then this could be a suitable backstory too. It would be the origin of their confederation and such. The Lucian Alliance may be adapting to these new paradigms by creationg havens of as im calling it chaos; whereby the old goauld systems of trade, industry and even religion remain in order to give them an enviroment where they can continue to opperate without needing to establish a legitimacy and a rival industrial and political base to rival ours or the aschen. I do still see the LA as a bunch of theives, but intergalactic crime can be an extremely sophistical network so im not belittling it. I just dont believe that once we get past the initial stages of Earth expansion, and one we get out there and our companies and citizens get out there innovating and changing things at all kinds of levels, that the LA will have the leeway around the galaxy that have got from the fallout of the SGC period.



I have to watch my postcount so will reply infrequently to these

[thekillman]

In terms of the avatar scenareo of strip mining planets for ores etc. I think there will be large scale mining companies. Big business and industry, in many cases unlike anything the galaxy has previously witnessed. Even under the goauld where it was harsh, it would not be as intensive and as profit driven as we will do it. Our system of economy is about minimal imput, maximum return. This is not that case with the goauld, it is about power and sustainability.

i personally think stripmining will be pretty much non-existant.

the main reason is: any earthly ore is pretty common in our solar system, so sol-based mining will do most of the metal income.

since Naquahdah seems to be mostly present on planets, Nq, Tr and Nm need to be found on planets. various rare metals will be a perk, but unlikely a focus.


i think that primarily, research will be one big thing, primarily in the department of biology. for pharmaceutical companies, antibiotics will be a big thing, but also various genetic structures. for farmers, alien corns etc will be major for obvious reasons.


genetic variety will be a very important source of information.


furthermore, offworld exotic holiday planets might be a good thing.

I dont think its a PR opperation perse, SG1 and the SGC have a good reputation in the galaxy certainly, and have done some very impressive feats.

my personal analysis is: it only takes a few minor changes of view to turn SG1's role of heroes into a role of harbingers of death and destruction.

. We created an unstable galaxy, thus they are an unstable opposition to what may have formed because of it, ie the Jaffa and Earth dominance.

yes. they are the sum of all unbalance. really the galaxy only has two factions of great power: the Jaffa and the Tau'ri. the LA rose as a third pillar of power when the other two failed, during a crucial period shortly after the Ori and Goauld defeats.

Indeed.

yes, but SG1 made it's share of mistakes. for example, it appears they heavily escalated the System Lord wars due to altering the balance of power, allowing for much more powerful system lords than previously conceived. they unleashed the Replicators and the Ori upon the galaxy, caused millions of deaths. their track record is not shiny, and Henry Hayes already questioned their sanity.

that the LA will have the leeway around the galaxy that have got from the fallout of the SGC period.

the LA are similar in many ways to the Ashen, but they have been built up in a far, far different way. the LA are the culmination of lots of powerful people opposing earth's view, while the Aschen is a single planet, if not a shadow version of earth, who has built out it's domain. the Aschen are relatively homogenous, while the LA is extraordinarily varied.

. If we expand in neo colonial form, impose capitalism, democracy and Earth style trade and industry galaxy wide.

but to what degree is this freedom of choice and to what degree is this forcing other people to believe what we believe. we believe that what we do is right, without questioning it. it's what causes many conflicts with other cultures here on earth. we believe that our way is the only proper way, and it's why we're so alienated from various cultures and religions. like the Islamitic people.

I do still see the LA as a bunch of theives,

i think the LA are a far more complicated phenomenon. and i think the Writers were the greatest idiots when they wrote them in SG1. they could have been so much more in Stargate, it's what i am making them. a force to be reckoned with. maybe not a true super power, but one who's determination and nativity to the galaxy makes them an excellent power.


isn't it ironic: the LA is made of people from the galaxy and thus knows far more of it than Earth. but they're no true superpower.

the Aschen know very little of the Galaxy, but are a superpower.

[immhotep]

It's my gate world birthday!! 12 k post up soon!

[thekillman]

congratulations !

cake?

[Davidtourniquet]

Congratulations Tep!

I do agree with you Killman, the Lucian Alliance could have been written in a better way.

I think a lot of the problems are due to the rest of the galaxy not trusting us. They spent centuries in slavery and have been use to the fact that one ruler was eliminated another ruler would take their place. So certainly some groups see us as trying to take over as the new rulers (totally understandable, as that is what they have experienced throughtout their lives). Maybe this is something we could look at in the fleet, how we not only defeat those who attack us, but show the Jaffa, the Lucian Alliance that we are not wanting to be supreme ruler of the galaxy, but a partner in a galactic federation (sorry for the star trek reference). Our wars aren't just with missiles and ships, it's also trying to understand how we can settle our differences and begin to trust each other and as the old saying goes: actions speak louder than words.

[thekillman]

I think a lot of the problems are due to the rest of the galaxy not trusting us.

yes. but also because we destroyed their source of security and protection. the System lords were hardly ideal, but right now everyone not belonging to a major group is vulnerable to anyone with a spaceship or goauld weapons

[fugiman]

Sorry I've been gone for so long guys but I'm just about done with finals.

So whats everyone up to? and why is it so dead around here?

[thekillman]

WHAT? am i dreaming?

working on a school project. it's known to be the most difficult of the entire year.