Why dont some(or alot) of people like Sam to be...

[ShadowMaat]

I would like to point out though, that IMO,Sam's age has no relevance to her role on the team,and her fitness to lead.Nor should it be part of any criticism of RL women.

Perhaps "she's a grown woman" would have sufficed. I think the point wasn't how old Sam is, but the fact that she should be old enough to not need the approval of the men (especially the older men) around her.

Spaz, sorry if I misread you but your post still came off as making sweeping generalizations, even with the "most" and "some" bits. I think at least part of that is because those "most" and "some" comments referred to groups of people that I personally have not noticed on this thread. "most" of the people making the nasty comments are Sam-bashers, "some" of the people objecting are "old school" fans (and don't even get me started on THAT comment!), etc.

I know that's how YOU see it, but as I said in my post, I have seen no evidence at all that "most" or even "some" of the people posting their objections to Sam's direction are doing so because they flat-out hate her.

While I know there are a lot of "old school" fans out there, I don't think that any or even "some" of them are objecting to Sam's development simply because it's "different".

If this is how you see things, then your view of fandom is a lot more negative than mine. I tend to take people at face value until I get to know them and THEN I decide whether or not they belong to "this" group or "that" group.

As for "What kind of development is good development?" You're right. It's impossible to say because everyone has different expectations. However, judging from this thread and a few others I think that a lot of people either dislike or are uncomfortable with the direction Sam is going in terms of her emotions. LOTS of people want Sam to declare her love for Jack, but I've noticed that at least "a few" of them don't care for the... side effects.

No, just because "most" or "some" of the fans don't like something doesn't mean it should be changed, but it makes me feel better to know I'm not the only one who feels that way and it says- to me- that maybe TPTB are making a mistake. Yes, the characters all belong to them, but they're creating them for us to enjoy- or, at least, they're creating them knowing that we will have SOME kind of reaction, and while they hardly pander to fan demands, they've managed to balance us all pretty well in the past. Barring major unavoidable upheavals like the whole Daniel/Jonas issue, of course. So that I don't make any sweeping generalizations, let me say that I find it... interesting that fans are upset with the current situation regarding Sam's "feelings" and it makes me curious what TPTB were thinking when they made the choices they did.

If there are legions of Sam fans out there who LOVE her current development, then by all means, speak up! I'd like to see some different perspectives, maybe get a read on some alternative interpretations.

[Dani347]

I think in some places "dude" is a catch all phrase for both males and females, so it could go either way. But, anyway, I'm female.

You're basically saying that you don't like the show that much, you hate the direction in which it's headed, but you're taking time out of your presumedly busy schedule to post about just how much you hate the show/characters/plot lines?

I just don't get this argument. Why is it any more sensible to take time out of a busy schedule to post about what you like? Why is only happy wonderful praise worth posting about? That still takes time out of a busy schedule. And, you couldn't know it, but my schedule actually has become pretty light now. I just fininshed finals, and I only work part time, so I have more free time than usual. And, people that don't like the direction the show is going shouldn't post? And, just because I don't like something doesn't mean that I don't care about it. It's the fact that I do care about certain elements that I voice my opinions. If I didn't care, I wouldn't post, no matter how badly I thought the show was doing.

Is that honestly in hopes of getting TPTB to change their nine-month plan just to fit the plots into your (or anyone's, even my) desires of how the show SHOULD be? The show is what it is. Period. There's no turning back - even for season eight now. At least, that's the way it SHOULD be.

No, it's not in the hopes of anything. I'm posting on a messageboard, one of porobably thousands of messageboards. no offense to Gateworld, but this is just a drop in the bucket. If I really wanted to influence tptb to change the direction of the show, I'd be writing to them. But, I don't think tptb give a hoot about someone like me. I'm writing here, for the same reason that anyone who only writes happy fuzzy things writes. Because I want to talk about the show, and I want to talk about how I feel about it.

I guess my problem is when people get on these threads (you know, the threads for supposedly CURRENT fans) and talk about how bad the show is, how sucky a character suddenly is, how baseless the writing is. Granted, there are only a few of these people (as my tongue drips with sarcasm), and granted, sometimes I wonder where the HECK a show is going, but this fandom/forum is so big because the people on and off screen are doing SOMETHING right...

I thought this board in general, and as a result all the threads were for people who want to talk about Stargate. Period. And, again, just because a lot of people watch is not definitive proof to me that they're doing something right. Because it's a matter of individual taste, and to my taste, regardless of who else is watching, they're not doing something right. And, that also assumes that if you do complain, you aren't a current fan. You don't have to be a fan of every aspect of the show to be a fan. I'm a huge fan of Daniel. But, Daniel doesn't live in a vacuum (I could make a snide comment about that, but I'll resist). To watch him, I have to watch the rest of the show. And, when I watch the rest of the show, I see things that interest me enough, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively, to comment on. Maybe all negatively, to some people. And, for other people, maybe they would consider themselves fans of the show (and maybe they could come up with even more reasons to like the show), and still be disappointed in the way things are going. Fan doesn't = love show unreservedly with no complaints.

. I'm not saying that the route she's taken is flawless - I'm just not willing to go off the deep end (like some posters have) and bash the current route completely.

Why is that going off the deep end? Why should anyone have to like the change at all to be reasonable in their criticism? Couldn't you just as well say that someone who says that the change is absolutely perfect and the best thing to ever happen to Sam is also going off the deep end? And, is it a matter of being willing? Can anyone help what they like? Or don't like? Wouldn't life be a lot easier if we could? I could tell myself, "I'm going to love the J/S ship" and "I'm going to love what they do to Sam." Tada!!! Now, it's all wonderful, and watching the show is so much easier!! But, it doesn't work that way. You like what you like, and you dislike what you dislike.

but again we're getting to the whole "What change is good change?" question. No one should even attempt to answer that, and I certainly am not trying to answer it.

Why shouldn't anyone? Isn't that what people are doing everytime they post that Sam and Jack should just declare their love and get on with the rest of the show? Or that Sam and Jack should just give it up already? Or that Teal'c should get more lines? Or that Jack should show more caring for Daniel? People have and most likely will continue to post what changes they think are good. Or, what things they think should stay the same. It's got nothing to do with making anyone else think like them, but just saying how they feel.

As to the sweeping generalization statement, I'm not objecting to how many people you say are old school fans who don't like change or just hate Sam. If you had just said I was an old school fan who hated Sam (or, if you singled out anyone) that would have been a sweeping generalization of me. That would have put my objections to the show and the character in the most flat, one dimensional terms. Some people might think my objections are way off base and ridiculous, but I'd like to think I've given reasons that are more detailed than simply "I hate Sam" or "I don't like change" Instead of just chalking up criticisms of Sam to people not liking Sam, how about looking at the criticisms themselves, and taking each one as an individual one, and thinking why people feel this way. Instead of chalking up anyone who doesn't like the way things have changed on the show as being against change in general, maybe just think that they aren't happy with these particular changes. Maybe other changes would be very satisfactory to the same people who are complaining now. And, I've already answered who should get to say. Everyone. Anyone. Will it make anyone else agree with me? Will I force tptb to implement the changes? No. So, there's no harm in voicing them.

[ShadowMaat]

I just don't get this argument. Why is it any more sensible to take time out of a busy schedule to post about what you like? Why is only happy wonderful praise worth posting about?

Just wanted to second you on this. I'm getting a little tired of always getting dumped on for saying less-than-positive things. I do make positive posts here, I do say nice things. It takes an equal amount of time to post anything. Why is the negative stuff bad, but the positive stuff is OK? Just because people don't wanna hear about the bad stuff? Well, phooey on that!

But, I don't think tptb give a hoot about someone like me. I'm writing here, for the same reason that anyone who only writes happy fuzzy things writes. Because I want to talk about the show, and I want to talk about how I feel about it.

Exactly! Negative comments are no more or less valid than the positive ones and it doesn't make us any less of a fan if we occasionally have complaints to make.

I thought this board in general, and as a result all the threads were for people who want to talk about Stargate. Period. ...Fan doesn't = love show unreservedly with no complaints.

Wow. I missed spazz's comment on this. Guess I should read more carefully.

And to think, all this time I thought Gateworld was a board for ALL fans- past, present and future. Thank goodness Spazz came along and showed me the error of my ways. Gateworld is ONLY for CURRENT fans. Gosh, well, OK, if that's the way it is. I guess Spazz would know better than I would. I should just pick up my toys (and Luke) and shuffle on outta Dodge, 'cause I'm not a CURRENT fan so I have no place here. Huh. Who'd'a thunk it?

Anyway, now I'm getting angry, so I'm gonna get this thread back on topic.

While I am not currently planning to watch S8 (and therefore my opinions are probably invalid), I think that having Sam be in command of SG-1 is a good move- for her and for the show. IF the writers put some effort into it, maybe it'll finally do some good and get the show back on track. Excuse me, back on the tracks that I think it should be on. Me. MY thoughts. MY opinion.

Of course, since I'm not planning to watch, what does it matter, right? Well, it matters to me because I am still a fan of the show, even if I don't like its current direction. I like what the show was, I like who the characters were and even though I'm 99% sure I'm never going to see any of that again, there's still that stubborn 1% that hopes things will get better. Or, as a non-current fan, am I not allowed to have hope? Am I not allowed to think the show can be improved? Am I not allowed to post my thoughts in ANY direction because I haven't watched all of S7? Maybe the folks who refuse to watch S6 should be banned from the board, too. And all those "new" fans who haven't caught up yet shouldn't post here until they actually know what they're talking about (and yes, folks, that's sarcasm and not an actual statement or opinion).

I love the character of Sam. I love Jack and Daniel and Jonas and Teal'c and all the others. Just because I'm not happy with the way things are turning out doesn't make me love them any less. I may not like what they're becoming, but I still love who and what they were and I will continue to love MY vision of them and I will continue to support- in absentia- those aspects of their characters which are still headed in the "right" direction (the right direction being my own PERSONAL definition which is not subject for scrutiny, debate, or issues over validity).

I'm sorry if anyone has a problem with that, but I didn't come here seeking approval. I'm not going to grovel, I'm not going to change my views just to fit the groupmind, I'm going to post MY thoughts, MY feelings and MY opinions because despite other opinions to the contrary, that's what I think this board is for: sharing your thoughts with other fans. Unless or until the mods come along and tell me, "No, you're wrong, you aren't allowed to post that stuff" then I'm gonna keep posting.

I hope Sam surpasses ALL expectations in S8. I hope she becomes the definitive leader of SG-1 and takes the team to previously unknown levels of excellence. So there.

[Dani347]

and therefore my opinions are probably invalid

No, valid! Valid! I may not agree with everything (just 99.9%) but your arguments are well written and it's easy to see you put in a lot of thought into your views.

And, here's something else. Instead of continuing to ask why some people post negative things in a board for fans (current, past, what does it matter??) why don't people who have positive things to say just post the positive things? Discussing the points of the posts is fine. You want to debate with me about Sam? I'm always up for a good debate. You disagree with my views? Let me know, I'll defend mine, you defend yours, we'll communicate. But, to say, "Why are you posting at all" just shuts down the lines of communication. And, that's not good.

[epiphany]

OK,not "dissing" your POV,you're just as entitled to that as any other poster!If you feel Sam has any Daddy issues or approval needs,fair enough!

I would like to point out though, that IMO,Sam's age has no relevance to her role on the team,and her fitness to lead.Nor should it be part of any criticism of RL women.

There's enough RL "Ageism".Let's not set back many years of positive growth as regards women's rights,by using Sam's age as an issue.If we were discussing any male,I'd say the same!

No personal attack on you or any other Poster intended.Honestly.It's just my POV!

Where are you getting that? It isn't "ageist" to say someone who is an adult, supposedly a responsible adult in the AIR FORCE is acting like a child waiting for a pat on the head, she even uses a somewhat childish tone of voice.

It's got nothing to do with her gender, it has to do with how I felt she was acting. It is embarrasing when a 40 year old woman, aka AN ADULT, acts like she's a child in a professional situation apparently as some sort of way of getting someone to approve of her. Just as it's embarassing when a 50 year old man who is supposed to a Colonel in the US Air Force acts like a child with some sort of attention issue(see Jack).

It's got nothing to do with "daddy issues" I think she has, it is what her behavior seems to convey.

[Bagpuss]

Where are you getting that? It isn't "ageist" to say someone who is an adult, supposedly a responsible adult in the AIR FORCE is acting like a child waiting for a pat on the head, she even uses a somewhat childish tone of voice.

It's got nothing to do with her gender, it has to do with how I felt she was acting. It is embarrasing when a 40 year old woman, aka AN ADULT, acts like she's a child in a professional situation apparently as some sort of way of getting someone to approve of her. Just as it's embarassing when a 50 year old man who is supposed to a Colonel in the US Air Force acts like a child with some sort of attention issue(see Jack).

It's got nothing to do with "daddy issues" I think she has, it is what her behavior seems to convey.

...........................................................................
All in our chosen perspectives then!I wasn't trying to have a go at you or your views.Mine are different.If you'd used the term "responsible adult",I wouldn't have had any problem with your previous Post!

Shadow used the alternative term "Grown Woman" ,in her reply to me,and either that or your term "Responsible Adult" are fine and IMO,far better suited than your original line.Also I don't see those alternatives as "Ageist".

As to your views vis any of the characters,fire away! They're Fictional.If you find their actions embarrassing,fine.I have my own issues with some of the plot-lines and character development too.

[Scruff]

My concern with Sam in command comes not from any dislike for the character, but from a standpoint of the real world military. I could see her in charge of specialized missions, but not all of the time. For all of her experience in gate travel and years in the military, she does not have the specialized combat training of many other team leaders. While there are female officers in the military in command positions, none are in SpecOps; none are Infantry. When there is a very real possiblity of engaging in combat, the Air Force would not send a woman into harm's way. The exception being that now they do allow female pilots go on bombing runs.

Sam in command would please a lot of fans and might make good television, it's just not realistic. (Ok, neither is the idea that a 32 ton ring made of quartz can allow travel between planets, but I digress.)

[Bagpuss]

Perhaps "she's a grown woman" would have sufficed. I think the point wasn't how old Sam is, but the fact that she should be old enough to not need the approval of the men (especially the older men) around her.

Thanks, Shadow.Much better term ,IMO!

As to the "Point",no probs with that either, as it wouldn't be much of a debate, if we all wandered around the Forum,saying "Wow" and "Cool" to everything the PTB/Writers come up with!

I enjoy reading ALL the different POV's.As IMO,I owe it to myself, to keep my mind open, and question everything I see/feel.Some might think I'm just nosy.(I prefer curious or inquisitive.)

Have to admit: some aspects of Stargate SG-1 writing make my blood boil.
I'm not on the right thread to have a go at the things I loathe at the Mo',so I'll go away and take some deep breaths,and chill!

[sgeureka]

To ShadowMaat (I'm putting several posts of yours in this one; sorry if they're taken out of context too much )

I hate the direction the show is going and I hate the direction TPTB are taking the characters. I don't feel that the show or characters are changing for the better. If anything, they're getting worse. They're regressing.

maybe TPTB are making a mistake. Yes, the characters all belong to them, but they're creating them for us to enjoy- or, at least, they're creating them knowing that we will have SOME kind of reaction, and while they hardly pander to fan demands, they've managed to balance us all pretty well in the past.

Also, it was written

We've had character-focused eps throughout the seasons for years, but nothing like "Grace," and I think that scared people. It would seem that people who are what I like to call "Old School Show Fans," like the same stuff that they're used to. There's nothing wrong with that, but I notice that most of these fans don't like Sam in season seven because she shows more emotion and more CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT than she has in any other season.

And you replied

While I know there are a lot of "old school" fans out there, I don't think that any or even "some" of them are objecting to Sam's development simply because it's "different".

I would really like to read your POV on this

I haven't participated in online fandom in the earlier seasons so I don't know what the fans were talking about then. But I read through some of the threads that Gypsy dug up in the Delphi forum a few weeks ago, and it seemed to me that you could basically take the old conversations and say that they were just a few weeks old. The fans debated about the same stuff as they do today, and their opinions were as wide-ranged as they are now.

It just seemed that they didn't jump at each other when they had different opinions, and TPTB were not blamed for anything that often (IMO of course, and I didn't read ALL the threads). So I agree that something has changed in fandom.

You don't agree with spaz's opinion that many "old school" fans dislike Sam's development because it's different. You like to put the "blame" on TPTB (I know that you usually say that in a cynic way and you don't really want to put suicidal thoughts onto them). But do you think it is possible that it is not all the writers' fault?

That there weren't so many people who didn't like Sam two years ago doesn't mean that they loved her then. It just means that they didn't care enough to state their dislike of the character. And now the writers have changed a little bit (partly by RDA's reduced schedule, hence Sam takes the role as the leader more often, partly by re-introducing the love theme). And suddenly we have the big "I-don't-like-the-direction-that-TPTB-are-taking-Sam" group. The same can be said about other themes of the show.

I mean, everybody is free to state their opinion (and you have done so very well in this thread and elsewhere ), but is it really that TPTB are just doing a crappy job or is it that a few (or a lot) fans don't like an aspect of the show anymore because it has become different?

If there are legions of Sam fans out there who LOVE her current development, then by all means, speak up! I'd like to see some different perspectives, maybe get a read on some alternative interpretations.

I wouldn't say that I love her current development, but neither do I see much of a reason why I should hate it. She is my fave character of the show, and I will either join you next year or I'll say that I don't see why so many fans made a fuss about her development. At the moment, I just don't like to read the really nasty posts (not from you) that say that TPTB suck for doing what is their job. (I know, I'm just too much of a positive person too look for the fault in me before I doom everyone else ).

(Let me just add that I don't agree with your opinion that often but your posts are usually that well written and insightful that I can resist the urge to put you on my ignore list . I always *really* enjoy reading your posts )

[ShadowMaat]

You don't agree with spaz's opinion that many "old school" fans dislike Sam's development because it's different. You like to put the "blame" on TPTB (I know that you usually say that in a cynic way and you don't really want to put suicidal thoughts onto them). But do you think it is possible that it is not all the writers' fault?

It isn't all the writers' fault, but they are the likeliest target since they are the ones responsible for writing the content that I and "a few" others find so objectionable. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have always enjoyed Sam's character. I like her enthusiasm for science, the strength of her convictions, and the fact that she bucks the cliche of the military figure by having a genuine emotional side. If she lacked that, Cassie would probably have died. There are other instances where her emotions have ruled her judgement for the better, but that's the most obvious case to spring to my mind.

It is only recently that I have perceived a "change" in her overall attitude. Instead of her emotions helping her, I feel as if they're hindering her. Is this because of some change in the writing, or because of something else? Speaking for myself, I stand by my conviction that it's the writing that has changed, but I'd be a fool if I didn't admit that my own attitudes are likely being affected.

I wasn't a part of fandom when I saw Singularity, so I only had myself by which to judge the merits/faults of the ep. It has never been a particular favorite of mine, and to be honest I was a little annoyed with Sam for taking the chance she did... but I also understood why she did what she did. I sympathize with her choice and however foolish it was, I also felt it was selfless. Not so, S7. It's hard to judge accurately because I haven't seen all of the eps, but there were scenes in Chimera and Heroes where I felt she made emotionally-based decisions which were not for the betterment of those around her and which read to me as being very selfish. Yes, it could simply be a matter of my own personal biases, but the writing has to figure in there somewhere in order for me to have seen things the way I saw them.

...is it really that TPTB are just doing a crappy job or is it that a few (or a lot) fans don't like an aspect of the show anymore because it has become different?

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make. An aspect of the show has become different (several have, but we'll stick to the topic). Are the writers not responsible for that change in aspect? And if some (or a few, or most, or just me) see that aspect as being "bad", then wouldn't we (or I) target TPTB for making that change?

As a fan I see the changes that have been made as being detrimental to the development of Sam/the show. In that respect, yes, I suppose it IS all me, but given my current negative attitude, if things with Sam had stayed the same or if they'd gone in another direction, how would that "affect" me? Would I still be upset with the show, but not mind Sam? Would I be upset with the changes no matter what? Would my opinion still be based on my biases, or would it have basis in the writing? Without an example for comparison, it's hard to say. I like to think that if Sam had turned out differently that I wouldn't have objected. My main problem with Sam at the moment relates directly to the ship aspect of the show. If that aspect were absent or as subdued as it has been in early seasons, I don't think she would aggravate me as much. I don't know if the changes would be enough to make me keep watching, though, it'd just be one less thing for me to complain about.

My "problems" aren't just with the development of Sam, they're with the creation and implementation of the stories themselves, stories which I feel have been watered down, retread, and made far too hokey for my tastes. That again could easily have to do with my own personal biases, but I can say that I was hellbent and determined to love S7 when it started. No matter what, I was going to like it because I didn't want to become like the angry people who spent an entire season complaining about the lack of Daniel regardless of what was happening in the stories themselves (I'm not talking about the ones with genuine complaints, just the ones who were literally saying that an ep sucked because Daniel wasn't in it). Unfortunately, despite my determination to love S7, I was finding it incresingly difficult to watch and enjoy the show. It was for a wide variety of reasons which I don't think are necessary to detail in this thread, but one of the main reasons was the writing.

Another reason, and a fairly big one, was the "vibe" I got from the characters/actors. It managed to sublimate itself a little better in eps like Fallout and Heroes, but overall I didn't feel that the characters had any more cohesion as a team. Maybe that, too, is a factor in my disliking of Sam's development, although I cannot at the moment think of any instances where I felt that "Amanda" leaked through into Sam. Still, it's a possibility.

The point is, I guess, that you're right- it isn't just the writers. But they aren't entirely lacking in blame, either. Not from where I sit.

I'm glad folks are enjoying my posts, even if they don't always agree with me. Stick around. I'll brainwash the lot of you eventually.

[bcmilco]

Stick around. I'll brainwash the lot of you eventually.

Yeah, you just keep trying, but it wont work

[Dani347]

I mean, everybody is free to state their opinion (and you have done so very well in this thread and elsewhere ), but is it really that TPTB are just doing a crappy job or is it that a few (or a lot) fans don't like an aspect of the show anymore because it has become different?

Not when fans are saying they dislike the way totb are handling things. You can't just say it's because they don't like it simply because it's different when people are stating their reasons. Why is it so hard to believe that some people don't like the direction that tptb have taken with aspects of the show, and it has nothing to do with the flat out simple thing as "you just don't like change?" I have a problem with the particular directions tptb are taking. I think they're doing a lousy job. Feel free to disagree. This is for anyone. Feel free to think that tptb are doing an absolutely fabulous job. But, please, no matter what you think of my reasons, do me the courtesy of not reducing them to the one note "you just don't like change." And, no, this wasn't directed specifically at me. But, in a way it was. Since it is about the people that are upset with the changes made, and I'm one of those people upset with them. I can only answer for myself, so I am. In fact, why don't people just stop telling people what they feel and why they feel it? I'm sure we all know our own feelings well enough.

I wouldn't say that I love her current development, but neither do I see much of a reason why I should hate it. She is my fave character of the show, and I will either join you next year or I'll say that I don't see why so many fans made a fuss about her development. At the moment, I just don't like to read the really nasty posts (not from you) that say that TPTB suck for doing what is their job. (I know, I'm just too much of a positive person too look for the fault in me before I doom everyone else ).

Does reason come into it? Since when does reason come into liking or disliking anything? They're emotional responses. As for saying tptb suck, maybe it's that people are criticizing tptb, because they think they're not doing their job as well as they have.
And, again, to people in general, please don't throw out the old "do you have a tv show? Well, then what right do you have to say they aren't doing their jobs well?" Movie critics criticize movies without ever having produced or acted in one. Book reviewers criticize books without writing one. Everytime someone goes into a clothing store and decides not to buy an outfit because they think it's ugly, they're making a critique, and probably haven't picked up a needle and thread.

I'm fine with change. Change in and of itself doesn't bother me. I don't dislike it just because it's change. On the other hand, I don't like change simply because it's change. It has to be what I consider good change. And, that's a decision that is up to each individual. I'd also wager that anyone who has made complaints about the changes doesn't live in some unnatural fear of change, but just has objections to these particular ones.

[epiphany]

Why is it so hard to believe that some people don't like the direction that tptb have taken with aspects of the show, and it has nothing to do with the flat out simple thing as "you just don't like change?" I have a problem with the particular directions tptb are taking. I think they're doing a lousy job. Feel free to disagree.

I agree.

I'm fine with change. Change in and of itself doesn't bother me. I don't dislike it just because it's change. On the other hand, I don't like change simply because it's change. It has to be what I consider good change. And, that's a decision that is up to each individual. I'd also wager that anyone who has made complaints about the changes doesn't live in some unnatural fear of change, but just has objections to these particular ones.

I agree again.

[the dancer of spaz]

Just wanted to second you on this. I'm getting a little tired of always getting dumped on for saying less-than-positive things. I do make positive posts here, I do say nice things. It takes an equal amount of time to post anything. Why is the negative stuff bad, but the positive stuff is OK? Just because people don't wanna hear about the bad stuff?

No. There's room for negativity. I'll agree with that. There's ALWAYS room for negativity. I just don't think that it's been so overwhelmingly HEAVY, like someone said earlier, those first few years. Also, I guess it's because the fandom wasn't so big, but, either way, I don't remember it being this crazy even when people made the references to Season Six ("The Season Which Will Not Be Mentioned" or something like that).

Exactly! Negative comments are no more or less valid than the positive ones and it doesn't make us any less of a fan if we occasionally have complaints to make.

No. Fan does not = loving, adoring, all-worshipping shipper or anything of that sort. Again, I recognize that fact as well. Did I say that I thought otherwise? No.

Wow. I missed spazz's comment on this. Guess I should read more carefully.

Was that a not-so-subtle dig at me? Nice. For the record, I worked yesterday and couldn't "retort." Sorry.

And to think, all this time I thought Gateworld was a board for ALL fans- past, present and future. Thank goodness Spazz came along and showed me the error of my ways. Gateworld is ONLY for CURRENT fans. Gosh, well, OK, if that's the way it is. I guess Spazz would know better than I would. I should just pick up my toys (and Luke) and shuffle on outta Dodge, 'cause I'm not a CURRENT fan so I have no place here. Huh. Who'd'a thunk it?

More digs... again, very appreciated. Thank you! Whereas you just ASSUMED that I believed you fell into all of those "generalizations," you have taken it upon yourself to include ME (not other posters; just me) in your snide comments and sarcastic remarks. I suppose mudslinging is next on the agenda, eh? Why not? It'd be appropriate. Look, I read your post over and over again, trying to decide whether or not I should bother replying, because I don't want you to think that I can't take sarcasm. I've LIVED with sarcasm- that's not the problem. The problem I have occurs when people single posters out and bash them unashamedly. Like WE ALL AGREE, this is about your, my, our opinions. I haven't intentionally bashed YOURS, ShadowMaat, and if I have, please let me know so I don't do it again.

Anyway, now I'm getting angry, so I'm gonna get this thread back on topic.

Apparently it's not that hard for you. And thanks for taking upon The Charge, as it is, to "get this thread back on topic." No one is more grateful than I.

...Or, as a non-current fan, am I not allowed to have hope? Am I not allowed to think the show can be improved? Am I not allowed to post my thoughts in ANY direction because I haven't watched all of S7? Maybe the folks who refuse to watch S6 should be banned from the board, too. And all those "new" fans who haven't caught up yet shouldn't post here until they actually know what they're talking about (and yes, folks, that's sarcasm and not an actual statement or opinion).

Wow, ShadowMaat! You agree with me? Awesome!
(Yes, also sarcasm.)

I'm sorry if anyone has a problem with that, but I didn't come here seeking approval. I'm not going to grovel, I'm not going to change my views just to fit the groupmind, I'm going to post MY thoughts, MY feelings and MY opinions...

Fantastic.

I hope Sam surpasses ALL expectations in S8. I hope she becomes the definitive leader of SG-1 and takes the team to previously unknown levels of excellence. So there.

Excellent. On this, ShadowMaat, you and I do agree.

[Dani347]

I think this is what Shadow and I (well I know I was) were referring to from one of your posts:

I guess my problem is when people get on these threads (you know, the threads for supposedly CURRENT fans)

The stress on current fans was yours. That the thread is for current fans. And, I don't feel that way. I think the entire board and every thread is for all fans and all people who want to discuss it (except protected threads that clearly state -This is only for S/J shippers, or Daniel fans, or Sam fans, or what have you).

Also, from the same post and in the same sentence:

and talk about how bad the show is, how sucky a character suddenly is, how baseless the writing is.

That makes it seem that if people are saying negative things about the show, they aren't fans. Why can't someone be a fan and think a character is sucky at the same time? Why can't someone feel the writing is baseless and still be a fan?

I just don't think that it's been so overwhelmingly HEAVY, like someone said earlier, those first few years.

Have you thought that it's maybe because the people who complain now felt those first few years the show was better? That, maybe, possibly, in some deep dark corner of the universe, for some people something has gone wrong with the show lately? And, I'm not even going to bother with the whole change argument, since I've stated my views on that numerous times.