The Fist bump

[Agent_Dark]

You'll notice how I've criticized Flanigan and McGillion for this as well. But they're just two men. The people in post production, the director and the writers are many.

So it's all a big pile of men who together decided this wasn't at all objectionable.

What, you're not complaining about Teldy's smug "I picked the best and the brightest. Funny how that turned out?" comment? That's not objectionable to you?

I'm sorry, how does any of that translate into "I'll bump fists with a fellow man whenever I see hot chicks that I can oogle!" how?

because it shows that he's always looking for an angle?

[Reiko]

JM also wrote The Tower. *shudders*

[FallenAngelII]

What, you're not complaining about Teldy's smug "I picked the best and the brightest. Funny how that turned out?" comment? That's not objectionable to you?

Which was a retort to John having a reaction to an all-woman team (which is ridiculous as he's supposedly the military leader of Atlantis). We've already established that this was a shoddily written episode.

But "Well, I picked the best and brightest and they happened to be women. See, women can be kickass warriors, too."-ish comment is not on the same level as "Hey, hot chicks!" fist bumping and "Shut up, girls. I'm not gonna listen to you!" stupidity (seriously, since when does John talk down on and pretty much tell his subordinates to shut up when they're only trying to help him form plans?).

Was that a men vs. women comment? Yes. But it wasn't sexist. It was a men vs. women comment.

because it shows that he's always looking for an angle?

Trying to embellish your achievements and wanting to date attractive women =/= Fist bumping when you see hot chicks

[FallenAngelII]

JM also wrote The Tower. *shudders*

Yes, his resume of badly written episodes hated by large amounts of female viewers is relatively lengthy.

[Flyboy]

It explains why you didn't find it objectionable at all... and probably think we're overracting.


Wait... how did he listen? In what alternate universe is cutting what's-her-name off mid-sentence and going "I think I've made myself clear" listening?

Taldy eller whatever: What if it goes sideways?
Shep: I already told you about my plan.
What's-her-name: What if...
Shep: Be quiet.

Yes, that's real listening right there.


And? Writing a few good episodes does in no way mean you cannot write bad episodes and it also does not mean you get "Get out of Criticism" cards. "Irresponsible" was a shoddily written episode with little insight into how women think. Since this episode also displayed alarming lack of insight into the female mind, I surmised that the writers for both (or at least "Irresistible" and "Whispers") were the same.

Not very surprisingly, they were.

Heterosexual white male here, and I think it was out of order....

[Naonak]

Yes, his resume of badly written episodes hated by large amounts of female viewers is relatively lengthy.

Three?

Which are also hated by most of the male viewers too?

[FallenAngelII]

Heterosexual white male here, and I think it was out of order....

I'm not saying all heterosexual white men think alike. I'm saying that heterosexual while males are the least discriminated against group in the world. They're also the group with the most power globally.

As such, when someone says "Hey, you guys are just overreacting about this sexist/homophobic/racist thing", they're usually heterosexual white males since they often lack empathy for such matters.

It's not something they're born with, it's just something they're conditioned with. They're discriminated against that often, thus they have less understanding of discriminating than minorities (or women).

[Flyboy]

What, you're not complaining about Teldy's smug "I picked the best and the brightest. Funny how that turned out?" comment? That's not objectionable to you?




because it shows that he's always looking for an angle?

I'm complaining about both, difference is, for SHEP, I think the fist bump was realistic, even if I don't approve.

BUT a desire to meet a nice girl, as was expressed by Beckett in Rising does NOT imply always looking for an angle. Beckett strikes me as a gentleman who often does not have the best luck with romance, and would very much like to meet an attractive, but nice girl, as he did with Porter. Not the sort to be "ooo girls SCORE!"

[Flyboy]

I'm not saying all heterosexual white men think alike. I'm saying that heterosexual while males are the least discriminated against group in the world. They're also the group with the most power globally.

As such, when someone says "Hey, you guys are just overreacting about this sexist/homophobic/racist thing", they're usually heterosexual white males since they often lack empathy for such matters.

It's not something they're born with, it's just something they're conditioned with. They're discriminated against that often, thus they have less understanding of discriminating than minorities (or women).

I agree with your general gist, but to call the heterosexual white male the least discriminated against? That's changing. Maybe only in Britain, but there are documented cases of the white straight man not getting a job because the employer has been TOLD to recruit minorities over white men.

The problem is, if you SAY that, you sound like you're with the KKK, but the thing is, this IS real, it's called "The Equality Bill" and in order to "get a more equal work force" employers are supposedly required to employ a minority, ie a black individual, female, homosexual, disabled individual over the white straight male, JUST for numbers purposes.

Sorry to digress, but at least in Britain, the white straight male is becoming very discriminated against.

[FallenAngelII]

Three?

Which are also hated by most of the male viewers too?

You'd be surprised how many viewers (many male) didn't hate them. Whenever "Irresponsible", "The Tower" and "Irresistible" (the three most hated Atlantis episodes of seasons 1-3, two of which were coincidentally penned by Mallozzi) are talked about, the majority of their supporters or "I didn't find it that objectionable/at all" are male.

He also penned "Travelers" (hey, there's this hot warrior chick who'll play around with double-entendres and use her sexiness to defeat men... and John falls for it!) and "Epiphany", which I found questionable because of Teer vapid stupidity ("I can see the future. I've been waiting for you all my life. Take my virginity!" - Well, if you've seen the future, then how come you saw John Ascend with you when he evidently didn't? And what's with the "John gets to bed a girl half his age and take his virginity"-crap?).

So let's see, questionable episodes:
* Epiphany
* The Tower
* Irresponsible
* Travelers
* Whispers

That's 5. Out of 14 episodes for which he's gotten a writing credit. 5 out of 14 of his episodes contain some kind of sexist stupidity (with "Epiphany" possibly just being down-right stupid and not necessarily sexist). Even without "Epiphany", that still makes it 4 out of 14. That's a relatively large chunk.

Then there's the episodes themselves to consider. "The Tower" and "Irresponsible" were voted most hated episodes of all time (of their time, at the time, up to season 3), taking spots 2 and 3 (behind "Irresistible"). "Travelers" stirred up a lot of drama and discussion last year and I think it'd rank pretty badly should we put it up for a vote.

"Whispers" is getting its own share of "WTH just happened?!".

[Jumper_One]

It explains why you didn't find it objectionable at all... and probably think we're overracting.

IDK who we is but yes you're overreacting imo

Wait... how did he listen? In what alternate universe is cutting what's-her-name off mid-sentence and going "I think I've made myself clear" listening?

that's the wrong scene. he actually listened while they were discussing the situation. Shep asked Ok now what? Any ideas?. yup Porter had an idea. not Teldy, not Dusty, Porter.

Taldy eller whatever: What if it goes sideways?
Shep: I already told you about my plan.
What's-her-name: What if...
Shep: Be quiet.

Yes, that's real listening right there.

actually it's...

Teldy: And what's the signal?
Shep: That would be the well blowing sky high
Dusty: And where will you be?
Shep: Well hopefully as far away as possible
Teldy: What if this goes sideways?
Shep: Don't be so negative Teldy
Teldy: I'm serious Colonel
Shep: You take up positions, you sit tight and wait for the signal. You don't move, you don't make a noise until the well blows
Dusty: Colonel...
Shep: I think I've made myself clear Sarge

Shep told her to follow his orders because he'd already made up his mind. so what? he's in charge.

And? Writing a few good episodes does in no way mean you cannot write bad episodes and it also does not mean you get "Get out of Criticism" cards.

I completely agree

"Irresponsible" was a shoddily written episode

it's a bad ep

with little insight into how women think. Since this episode also displayed alarming lack of insight into the female mind, I surmised that the writers for both (or at least "Irresistible" and "Whispers") were the same.

Not very surprisingly, they were.

alarming lack of insight into the female mind? come on this is SG

Yes, his resume of badly written episodes hated by large amounts of female viewers is relatively lengthy.

LOL really? I assume you know every single female viewer?

[Jumper_One]

So let's see, questionable episodes:

in your opinion

* Epiphany
* The Tower
* Irresponsible
* Travelers
* Whispers

That's 5. Out of 14 episodes for which he's gotten a writing credit.

**snip**

JM & PM wrote 65 eps

[FallenAngelII]

I agree with your general gist, but to call the heterosexual white male the least discriminated against? That's changing. Maybe only in Britain, but there are documented cases of the white straight man not getting a job because the employer has been TOLD to recruit minorities over white men.

The heterosexual white male is the least discriminated against group in the world (generally speaking). It's pretty much a fact. I'm not saying they never get discriminated against, it's just not on the same level as, say, gay people or women (the fact that women still makes less than males for the same work in jobs where gender makes absolutely no differences is telling).

This is why so many heterosexual white males were so incapable of seeing the connections to rape to "Irresistible", "Hathor" and "Brief Candle" and some of them thought "It's no big deal!" (Irresistible) or "Hot!" (the other two) about the episodes.

The problem is, if you SAY that, you sound like you're with the KKK, but the thing is, this IS real, it's called "The Equality Bill" and in order to "get a more equal work force" employers are supposedly required to employ a minority, ie a black individual, female, homosexual, disabled individual over the white straight male, JUST for numbers purposes.

Yes, affirmative action is sad. The fact that it's needed at all is sad. I'm still not sure of if I support it.

On one hand, without it, there'd be more discrimination. But with it, you're forcing people to hire potentially less qualified people to make up an arbitrary quota.

But it's not real discrimination, it's affirmative action, a necessary evil (contested) that's a result of discrimination. Because so many people discriminate against minorities (even people who are themselves part of minorities), without affirmative action, work places and schools would be much more (unjustly) homogenized.

Every day, tons of qualified (sometimes moreso than those who take their places) people are denied employment/whatever based solely on gender, race or sexual orientation (or perceived such). If that didn't happen, affirmative action wouldn't have to exist.

[FallenAngelII]

IDK who we is but yes you're overreacting imo

By pointing out that it was immature (for men of 40) and potentially sexist?

that's the wrong scene. he actually listened while they were discussing the situation. Shep asked Ok now what? Any ideas?. yup Porter had an idea. not Teldy, not Dusty, Porter.

I'm sorry, it's the wrong scene? I was the one who brought up the scene where he refused to listen. It was you who thought of the wrong scene. There's a scene where he's blatantly refusing to listen.

In that other scene, he didn't have a plan. He's not stupid enough to disregard other people's ideas when he has none.

Shep told her to follow his orders because he'd already made up his mind. so what? he's in charge.

Because you're supposed to have a backup plan if things go south? Seriously, how long have you watched Stargate? We can only suspend disbelief for so long. John is supposedly the military commander of Atlantis. He's supposed to have backup plans.

alarming lack of insight into the female mind? come on this is SG

Yes, and the SG writers show frequent bouts of lacking insight into the female mind.

LOL really? I assume you know every single female viewer?

No, I was just around when the episodes were aired and all hell broke loose on the boards and the fanbase was divided. And not surprisingly, most of the haters were female and most of the lovers were male.

JM & PM wrote 65 eps

JM only received writers credit for 14 episodes on IMDB. Since there's no other places which lists credits like IMDB does that I know of, I went by IMDB. Otherwise, I have to check each individual episode. Correction, though. According to IMDB, he wrote 15 episodes (up to "Whispers").

[FallenAngelII]

I'm complaining about both, difference is, for SHEP, I think the fist bump was realistic, even if I don't approve.

BUT a desire to meet a nice girl, as was expressed by Beckett in Rising does NOT imply always looking for an angle. Beckett strikes me as a gentleman who often does not have the best luck with romance, and would very much like to meet an attractive, but nice girl, as he did with Porter. Not the sort to be "ooo girls SCORE!"

My thoughts exactly.