Dr. Keller to return for season five...

[PG15]

Does "Michael" count?

[Briangate78]

I remember seeing that in full force when Sheppard killed Bob in the Seige and then not again until Miller's Crossing unless I've forgotten about something big. So, yeah, it took them three years.

But it's something.

This is what I got from Sheppard's darker personality. He'll usually um what's the word "Push the envelope" when trying to solve a problem. Sheppard said he would do anything for his friends, but how far would he go, and what sacrifices does he make to save someone else. Here are a few examples I can think of....

Rising Part 1 : Killing Col Sumner
The Eye: Sheppard goes on a killing spree thinking Weir is dead
Seige: Killing Bob the Wraith
Seige Part 2: Going on a suicide mission to save Atlantis
Common Ground: Teams up with the enemy to survive
Return: Disobeys direct orders and put entire team at risk.
Adrift: Order's Mckay to shut off the nanites knowing it will kill Dr. Weir
Lifeline: Orders Mckay once again to shut off the nanites.
Miller's Crossing: Pursuades another person to take their life inorder to save Mckay's sister's life.
This Mortal Coil: Agrees to allow repli-team to sacrifice themselves. Talk about moral decisions.

I see Sheppard as taking more risks and will do something over the top. The moment he shot Col Sumner told me what kind of character he was, and is one of the reasons why he is my favorite character. Sheppard will take the risks, he would sarcrifice someone if it meant saving the lot of other lives. Weir being a perfect example. Now how close was Sheppard and Weir? It makes me feel like sometimes I am the only one who sees this drama.

[chensuu]

This is what I got from Sheppard's darker personality. He'll usually um what's the word "Push the envelope" when trying to solve a problem. Sheppard said he would do anything for his friends, but how far would he go, and what sacrifices does he make to save someone else. Here are a few examples I can think of....

Rising Part 1 : Killing Col Sumner
The Eye: Sheppard goes on a killing spree thinking Weir is dead
Seige: Killing Bob the Wraith
Seige Part 2: Going on a suicide mission to save Atlantis
Common Ground: Teams up with the enemy to survive
Return: Disobeys direct orders and put entire team at risk.
Adrift: Order's Mckay to shut off the nanites knowing it will kill Dr. Weir
Lifeline: Orders Mckay once again to shut off the nanites.
Miller's Crossing: Pursuades another person to take their life inorder to save Mckay's sister's life.
This Mortal Coil: Agrees to allow repli-team to sacrifice themselves. Talk about moral decisions.

I see Sheppard as taking more risks and will do something over the top. The moment he shot Col Sumner told me what kind of character he was, and is one of the reasons why he is my favorite character. Sheppard will take the risks, he would sarcrifice someone if it meant saving the lot of other lives. Weir being a perfect example. Now how close was Sheppard and Weir? It makes me feel like sometimes I am the only one who sees this drama.

Nice description of Sheppard and episode play by play. Shep's my favorite character too and now I like him even more!

I just don't agree that all the episodes you mentioned showcase his personality as "dark" although they do present him as complicated, desperate, intelligent, calculating, vulnerable, cold and certainly able to make the hard decisions. I agree that Seige and Miller's Crossing were quite questionable and that Sheppard does give up a lot of himself in some of the decisions he makes. Miller's Crossing was like a punch in the gut and took me by surprise. I really enjoyed being shocked by the outcome.

That said...my main problem with Keller is that I felt like I was being inundated with too much information too soon and to me it felt like cheating. With Sheppard we weren't told many definites and therefore like with your descriptions and my ideas, we were able to "infer" a lot of what we enjoy about his character. With Keller I feel like I'm being instructed on how I should feel about her, who she likes, what she does, her family life, her past etc and all before she was even a full time character. So in closing this great Sheppard discussion let me say that yes, I think Keller had a lot of screentime in season 4. More than I think was warranted as a recurring character.

[Pic]

Perhaps part of that is that s4 had such a large character shake-up that it seemed to push Keller to the forefront.
I'm thinking that it's a matter of Weir & Carson being gone and RL's pregnancy that lent the recurring characters more screen time in a practical sense. We still had a lot of the McKay/Sheppard episodes in s4.
Yes, they could've possibly done more with Radek and/or Lorne, but they chose Keller and I'm not opposed to their decision in that regard.

[chensuu]

Perhaps part of that is that s4 had such a large character shake-up that it seemed to push Keller to the forefront.
I'm thinking that it's a matter of Weir & Carson being gone and RL's pregnancy that lent the recurring characters more screen time in a practical sense. We still had a lot of the McKay/Sheppard episodes in s4.
Yes, they could've possibly done more with Radek and/or Lorne, but they chose Keller and I'm not opposed to their decision in that regard.

Cool, that's your opinion. Personally I would have much rather seen Radek or Lorne. They've been on the show for three to four years as recurring characters and never had one big ep, let alone two big eps, in a season like Keller had in season 4, or been linked romantically with not one but two characters, or sat down to breakfast witht the gang. I would have much perferred team episodes to be honest. I don't see Keller as part of the team and those are the episodes I enjoy best!

[maxbo]

Cool, that's your opinion. Personally I would have much rather seen Radek or Lorne. They've been on the show for three to four years as recurring characters and never had one big ep, let alone two big eps, in a season like Keller had in season 4, or been linked romantically with not one but two characters, or sat down to breakfast witht the gang. I would have much perferred team episodes to be honest. I don't see Keller as part of the team and those are the episodes I enjoy best!

I agree. Some of Keller's Season 4 screen time should have been split between Radek and Lorne. After all, they had been recurring characters for years, yet never had an episode devoted to them - while Keller has been the focus of several episodes.

The only reason I can see for this Keller-focus is that TPTB loved the character and believed the audience would also love her - once we got to know her. So, they decided to make sure we got to know her as quickly as possible by overloading Season 4 with her. Unfortunately, this strategy backfired with me because the more she was featured, the less I liked her. Mainly because TPTB didn't seem to have a handle on the character.

In Season 3's First Strike, I thought they did a good job in writing Keller as a young woman who was out of her element as CMO, but dedicated enough to take on the role when no one else wanted it. I saw a character who was probably a lot stronger than she thought she was and was looking forward to seeing her story unfold. Unfortunately, by the end of Season 4, TPTB seemed to forget the First Strike Keller in favor of using the character as a plot device.

IMO, they should have figured out who Keller was first and then slowly introduced her to the audience. As it stands now, I feel like I'm supposed to love Keller because TPTB believes I should and that doesn't work for me.

[elliecat]

Cool, that's your opinion. Personally I would have much rather seen Radek or Lorne. They've been on the show for three to four years as recurring characters and never had one big ep, let alone two big eps, in a season like Keller had in season 4, or been linked romantically with not one but two characters, or sat down to breakfast witht the gang. I would have much perferred team episodes to be honest. I don't see Keller as part of the team and those are the episodes I enjoy best!

I totally agree! If the main cast members were unavailable for one reason or another (babies etc) then why couldn't we have had Radek or Lorne in these episodes instead of Keller? They are both very popular characters from what I can tell reading these boards and have been on Atlantis for 3/4 years. I would have loved an episode about Zelenka, seeing things from his point of view for a change maybe. But no we get this new character Keller shoved down our throats because she is a 'shiny new toy' and can be shipped with main characters.

[chensuu]

In Season 3's First Strike, I thought they did a good job in writing Keller as a young woman who was out of her element as CMO, but dedicated enough to take on the role when no one else wanted it. I saw a character who was probably a lot stronger than she thought she was and was looking forward to seeing her story unfold. Unfortunately, by the end of Season 4, TPTB seemed to forget the First Strike Keller in favor of using the character as a plot device.

IMO, they should have figured out who Keller was first and then slowly introduced her to the audience. As it stands now, I feel like I'm supposed to love Keller because TPTB believes I should and that doesn't work for me.

Yes, definitely. I didn't really take notice of Keller in First Strike but she seemed okay enough in Adrift so I decided to take a wait and see attitude. Then suddenly in Doppelganger she was sitting down to breakfast with most of the team talking about nightmares as if she'd known them forever and I guess I'm shallow on some level because it completely rubbed me the wrong way. Sadly this seemingly innocuous move was the beginning of what I felt to be too much too soon Keller.

[elliecat]

Yes, definitely. I didn't really take notice of Keller in First Strike but she seemed okay enough in Adrift so I decided to take a wait and see attitude. Then suddenly in Doppelganger she was sitting down to breakfast with most of the team talking about nightmares as if she'd known them forever and I guess I'm shallow on some level because it completely rubbed me the wrong way. Sadly this seemingly innocuous move was the beginning of what I felt to be too much too soon Keller.

That was the turning point for me aswell. When she sat down to breakfast with the team I was like, woah what's going on? Even Liz and Carson never sat with the team and that didn't sit well with me either! It might not be much to some people but it really was a major thing for me.

In first strike I didn't hate her at all, I wasn't interested in her either, she was just there doing her job. But shoving her in with the team before even getting to know her and deciding whether or not I liked her character? That was a bad move on TPTB's part imo.

[Arica12]

That was the turning point for me aswell. When she sat down to breakfast with the team I was like, woah what's going on? Even Liz and Carson never sat with the team and that didn't sit well with me either! It might not be much to some people but it really was a major thing for me.

In first strike I didn't hate her at all, I wasn't interested in her either, she was just there doing her job. But shoving her in with the team before even getting to know her and deciding whether or not I liked her character? That was a bad move on TPTB's part imo.

I remember writing at the time that she was okay in First Strike but unless handled carefully could become annoying very quickly.

[elliecat]

I remember writing at the time that she was okay in First Strike but unless handled carefully could become annoying very quickly.

Ah, how right you were.

[Pic]

Like I said, perhaps they could have given more screen time to Radek or Lorne (which I would've applauded) but didn't. Radek scenes are almost always full of humor and it's good to see that Sheppard isn't the only capable earth-military-man on base.

Now that Keller is to be a regular in s5, do you think that was what they were leading up to when featuring her in so many eps during s4?

I hadn't thought about the whole 'joining the team' in the mess hall angle. Part of me sees your symbolism, like the character is being pushed into a close knit group of people who've been through a lot together. Part of me is reminded of cliques in high school. I'm going to go with the symbolism aspect and say that TPTB must've been making a conscious decision to indicate to the audience that there are new players in Atlantis and that the structure of all things may not be as stable as one thinks. Think about it ~ they had SG-1 to run with a new team after many years and perhaps wanted a way to have the SGA team seem more fluid and not as entrenched as SG-1 had become before s8.

Just rambling thinking out loud, not meant to step on anyone's toes or bash anyone's opinions. Maybe the angst of not knowing if the team will remain intact or not is meant to add an element here. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Arica12]

Ah, how right you were.

Yeah I wasn't wild about her, but nor did I find her terribly annoying at that stage either and again while I had reservations in the first couple of episodes of Season 4 I didn't detest her.

No for me Missing delivered a crippling wound, by Quarantine the character was on life support for me and Trio....well the less said the better

[Arica12]

Like I said, perhaps they could have given more screen time to Radek or Lorne (which I would've applauded) but didn't. Radek scenes are almost always full of humor and it's good to see that Sheppard isn't the only capable earth-military-man on base.

Now that Keller is to be a regular in s5, do you think that was what they were leading up to when featuring her in so many eps during s4?

I hadn't thought about the whole 'joining the team' in the mess hall angle. Part of me sees your symbolism, like the character is being pushed into a close knit group of people who've been through a lot together. Part of me is reminded of cliques in high school. I'm going to go with the symbolism aspect and say that TPTB must've been making a conscious decision to indicate to the audience that there are new players in Atlantis and that the structure of all things may not be as stable as one thinks. Think about it ~ they had SG-1 to run with a new team after many years and perhaps wanted a way to have the SGA team seem more fluid and not as entrenched as SG-1 had become before s8.

Just rambling thinking out loud, not meant to step on anyone's toes or bash anyone's opinions. Maybe the angst of not knowing if the team will remain intact or not is meant to add an element here. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

You know you raise some really good points, however, and it's a big however, whatever the rationale, I just don't like this character, for me the damage is done and I honestly don't think it can be undone. And I think a lot of people feel that way. Others like her and that's great, but I don't think we're ever going to get to the point we're at with most of the other characters where while not universally popular they are at least popular with a CLEAR majority. But as I say just my opinion.

[maxbo]

Yes, definitely. I didn't really take notice of Keller in First Strike but she seemed okay enough in Adrift so I decided to take a wait and see attitude. Then suddenly in Doppelganger she was sitting down to breakfast with most of the team talking about nightmares as if she'd known them forever and I guess I'm shallow on some level because it completely rubbed me the wrong way. Sadly this seemingly innocuous move was the beginning of what I felt to be too much too soon Keller.

That was the turning point for me aswell. When she sat down to breakfast with the team I was like, woah what's going on? Even Liz and Carson never sat with the team and that didn't sit well with me either! It might not be much to some people but it really was a major thing for me.

In first strike I didn't hate her at all, I wasn't interested in her either, she was just there doing her job. But shoving her in with the team before even getting to know her and deciding whether or not I liked her character? That was a bad move on TPTB's part imo.

You two were quicker on the draw than I was because I didn't realize until the second half of Season 4 that Doppleganger was the first sign of Keller overload. At the time, I thought it was a good idea to try to integrate Keller into the team because I believed that, as a recurring character, she wouldn't get much screen time.
Boy, was I wrong!

In fact, I had to be hit over the head with a hammer because I didn't even have a problem with her in Missing, even though that episode was more about her than about Teyla. Again, I told myself that as a recurring character she wouldn't get much screentime, so I didn't begrudge her that time in the spotlight.

It didn't sink in for me that there was too much Keller until Quarantine. After that, there was no turning back. That was when I realized that I just wasn't that interested in the character and didn't understand why she had been featured so much.