Keller in "Missing" good or bad??

[Aginor37]

You know, another thing came to me while I was reading over some of these responses. I think I finally, really understand why I think some of the Keller hate in this thread is a bit speculative (Everyone is entitled to their opinions, of course, and I do respect them; I just think that there's a bit of an unfair standard being applied).

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no non-military person period, doctor or otherwise, would have been equally terrified. I realize I said that earlier, but here's what I think people aren't getting.

I am sure that the full scope of a medical officer's duties on Atlantis were brought up before she signed on. Dealing with new viruses and diseases, going to other worlds to provide medical support as part of a team, even battlefield medicine, again as medical support along with soldiers and other team members.

The events in Missing were completely outside the scope of anything any non-SG team member has ever encountered offworld. I doubt the possibility of that happening was ever presented to her, because let's face it; Nobody ever thinks "well, there's always a possibility that on a routine trip to friendly territory, you could be hunted by previously-unknown cannibals for a day or so, with an encounter with a wraith worshipper thrown in for spice" because hey, who thinks stuff like that is ever going to happen?

Seriously though, she isn't a part of the exploratory team (Sheppard, other teams; personnel), she is support staff who was caught in a one in a million situation. Note that she did perform her actual job (stitching up a supposedly innocent man) with due skill and diligence while under the pressure of being hunted. It's the other, unforeseeable stuff that got to her, which is completely understandable.

So I would say that if she ever goes offworld into a situation similar to the one Dr. Frasier died in ala Heroes and cracks up, then it's time for the criticisms. But in this case, I think Keller deserves some slack.

[CalmStorm]

<snipped>

Um just a question but who? Kinsey and any other civilian would have to sign a non disclosure aggrement. Just as would all military personell and any guests ie, Teal'c, Vala, Jonas, etc..This comes from expiernce mind you. Anyone who is let in to a top secret or above program either signs an NDA or a blind commitment.

Neither can I but you say plenty others just exactly who? It is possible that many like the military would already know but Carson was the one that said that and it makes sense for the civilian screening. However regardless it is higlhy possible she didn't look before she lept. In other words didn't realise just what she got herself into.

<snipped>

In regards to my comment that it is not as big a secret as it once was, there are plenty of people aware of the stargate now as opposed to when it was first discovered. Yes, they sign a non-disclosure, but as time has gone on, many more know about the program and have signed the non-disclosures.

As for who, many more governments and their scientist are aware of the stargate. Any non-military scientist on Atlantis is aware of the stargate. As the stargate program continues to grow, so do the number of people involved. Many more military personnel are aware of the stargate than previously. The IOA and its members are aware of the stargate.

Hence, more people are aware of the secret beyond military personnel.


I have no disputes with NDAs. I do question how 'blind' the blind commitment is and the purpose it serves. However, I realize now that I have moved away from the topic of this thread and will try to bring my focus back to the topic.

Of course, one of the possibilities is that Keller leaped before she looked. Another possibility is that, as Keller said, she knew exactly what she was signing up for. Perhaps, like others, she signed a non-disclosure and was informed of the position and given an opportunity to accept or decline. Or perhaps, she was already a doctor at the SGC and was given the opportunity to transfer. Regardless of the situation with which she found herself in the Pegasus Galaxy (known or unknown), she should have developed at the very least, basic self-defense skills to prepare her for off-world travel since her arrival.

[jelgate]

]l ?* Regardless of the situation with which she found herself in the Pegasus Galaxy (known or unknown), she should have developed at the very least, basic self-defense skills to prepare her for off-world travel since her arrival.

Why would a medical doctor who would normally not go into hostile territories need to learn self-defense situation. The name of the episode escapes me at the moment, the one where Micheal made giant Iratus bugs, began with Ronan to teach McKay self-defense. McKay still couldn't defend himself in hand to hand combat like Dr. Keller

[CalmStorm]

Why would a medical doctor who would normally not go into hostile territories need to learn self-defense situation. The name of the episode escapes me at the moment, the one where Micheal made giant Iratus bugs, began with Ronan to teach McKay self-defense. McKay still couldn't defend himself in hand to hand combat like Dr. Keller

They are in a hostile environment in the Pegasus Galaxy, that is the norm. As the doctor, she will undoubtedly need to go off-world from time to time and it seems likely that she would encounter hostile situations. Beyond off-world, we have seen the inside of the city itself play-out some hostile situations.

McKay's defense skills do leave something to be desired, but at the very least he is getting the training.

In my opinion, anyone thrown in that type of environment should be required to have self-defense training, regardless of their primary function on the base. Not all of them will be the best at, but at least they will have been trained and exposed to the very basics of self-defense.

[jelgate]

They are in a hostile environment in the Pegasus Galaxy, that is the norm.?* As the doctor, she will undoubtedly need to go off-world from time to time and it seems likely that she would encounter hostile situations.

It was mentioned by someone else and I beleive it still has merit. If Dr. Keller panics while atttending to a patient then I'll agree with you. I can speak from experence that when you a trying to help?* a friend that you forget about your personal well-being ?*

Beyond off-world, we have seen the inside of the city itself play-out some hostile situations.

We have seen Dr. Keller behave rationally when there have problems in the city ie Adrift and Tabula Rasa.

McKay's defense skills do leave something to be desired, but at the very least he is getting the training.

?* McKay should have defense skills. He is a member of Sheppards (they should give those teams names) and should be able to defend himself because he is dangerous situations quite often

[CalmStorm]

It was mentioned by someone else and I beleive it still has merit. If Dr. Keller panics while atttending to a patient then I'll agree with you. I can speak from experence that when you a trying to help?* a friend that you forget about your personal well-being ?*

I'm not sure I understand this paragraph.

We have seen Dr. Keller behave rationally when there have problems in the city ie Adrift and Tabula Rasa.?* McKay should have defense skills. He is a member of Sheppards (they should give those teams names) and should be able to defend himself because he is dangerous situations quite often

I believe the Atlantis offworld teams are referred to as AR1, AR2, etc , for Atlantis Reconnaissance.

As far as problems in the city, I was referring to incursions, such as when the Genii entered the city to attack and on the numerous occasions the wraith have been present in the city. This situation has not occurred while she has been there, but it's a possibility that something of that nature could happen again.

I am not looking for Keller and the other scientist to be able to fight successfully against a wraith or a trained Genii soldier. I am looking for her and the others to be exposed to basic self-defense tactics so that they are at least, a little familiar with defense when those situations arise. Also, so they are not as great a liability to those who are suited for combat.

I believe that Keller would have benefited from basic self-defense and survival training, especially in this situation.

I guess in the end, I would think that anyone going to another galaxy would not only be required to train in basic self-defense and survival skills, but would want to do so.

[Agent_Dark]

keller owned, get over it. kneecapping noobs 9mm represent

[jelgate]

You are 100% correct

[Agent_Dark]

no doubt

[Avenger]

They are in a hostile environment in the Pegasus Galaxy, that is the norm. As the doctor, she will undoubtedly need to go off-world from time to time and it seems likely that she would encounter hostile situations. Beyond off-world, we have seen the inside of the city itself play-out some hostile situations.

McKay's defense skills do leave something to be desired, but at the very least he is getting the training.

In my opinion, anyone thrown in that type of environment should be required to have self-defense training, regardless of their primary function on the base. Not all of them will be the best at, but at least they will have been trained and exposed to the very basics of self-defense.

All the training in the world can only prepare you so much for what happens in the real world. I started EMS training las fall and wildland firefighting training in the spring. It was great. I learned a lot. However, all the practice patient assessments I did in class didn't properly prepare me for the first time I had to deal with a patient who was in bad shape. All the training I did to fight fires certainly helped, but I was shaky out on my first fire because of a lack of real fire line experience.

Any one who thinks that training would really prepare someone to deal with what Keller had to deal with in Missing is sadly mistaken and has never done a job that can even be considered close to life threatening. Training can not replicate the stress of a real world life and death situation. You have to experience it and learn from it.

[jelgate]

Avenger, picture two hands. Those two hands are cappling because of your post. To futhur explain, I kinda know what your saying. Four years ago, when I was in high school, I got CPR certified. Practicing on this manichins helped but it isn't the same when you have to try to rescitate a person. I actually had to do it once.

[Avenger]

And that's where you really learn. When you put those skills into real world use.

[CalmStorm]

All the training in the world can only prepare you so much for what happens in the real world. I started EMS training las fall and wildland firefighting training in the spring. It was great. I learned a lot. However, all the practice patient assessments I did in class didn't properly prepare me for the first time I had to deal with a patient who was in bad shape. All the training I did to fight fires certainly helped, but I was shaky out on my first fire because of a lack of real fire line experience.

Any one who thinks that training would really prepare someone to deal with what Keller had to deal with in Missing is sadly mistaken and has never done a job that can even be considered close to life threatening. Training can not replicate the stress of a real world life and death situation. You have to experience it and learn from it.

Of course there is nothing to truly prepare you like experience. However, how much more shaky would you have been without the training and the knowledge that training provided? Was the training completely useless?

I wouldn't particularly want a fresh faced, brand new EMT treating me, especially if that EMT did not go through any kind of preparation or training. I would expect that EMT to have training, and then to continue that training in the field. I would expect that EMT to be apprenticing with one who had field experience.

As I said previously, I would not expect Keller to be able to go out and kick a**. I would expect her to be just as shaky as she was. This is one experience that she will be able to build upon. At the same time, I still believe that training would be advisable for anyone in that position.

To me, some basic self-defense training and survival skills training would seem to be a no brainer. However, at this point, I'll just have to move along and agree to disagree.

[wraith form Replicator]

I like her.

[Mitchell82]

In regards to my comment that it is not as big a secret as it once was, there are plenty of people aware of the stargate now as opposed to when it was first discovered. Yes, they sign a non-disclosure, but as time has gone on, many more know about the program and have signed the non-disclosures.

As for who, many more governments and their scientist are aware of the stargate. Any non-military scientist on Atlantis is aware of the stargate. As the stargate program continues to grow, so do the number of people involved. Many more military personnel are aware of the stargate than previously. The IOA and its members are aware of the stargate.

Hence, more people are aware of the secret beyond military personnel.


I have no disputes with NDAs. I do question how 'blind' the blind commitment is and the purpose it serves. However, I realize now that I have moved away from the topic of this thread and will try to bring my focus back to the topic.

Agreed and you're right we have no idea how blind those commitments are.

Of course, one of the possibilities is that Keller leaped before she looked. Another possibility is that, as Keller said, she knew exactly what she was signing up for. Perhaps, like others, she signed a non-disclosure and was informed of the position and given an opportunity to accept or decline. Or perhaps, she was already a doctor at the SGC and was given the opportunity to transfer. Regardless of the situation with which she found herself in the Pegasus Galaxy (known or unknown), she should have developed at the very least, basic self-defense skills to prepare her for off-world travel since her arrival.

I see your point but I still disagree that she should have had training when her field doesn't require it.