Keller in "Missing" good or bad??

[jelgate]

In some cultures Aye is an another way to say yes

[SG13-NightOps]

In some cultures Aye is an another way to say yes

I know.. I wasnt asking why he says Aye, I was pointing out that the transcript has written him as saying "Why", and it irks me because he says "Aye", like a good scotsman.

and its totally OT now! LOL

[BoyNamedSue]

Sure enough, there it is. Gateworld also has transcripts available too, including this episode at:
Intruder Transcript

I would be surprised if it is a totally "blind commitment." To me, I think it means, that if they go through the selection process, their blind commitment of one year, is a commitment to be able to dedicate their time for that year. To be able to walk away from their life and everything in it for a year. I would think that they would have to know at some point that they are being sent to another galaxy where life sucking aliens will threaten their very existence. If they cannot dedicate a year or do not want to, they can be removed from consideration without the need to divulge the info on assignment or the stargate.

In regards to Keller, perhaps she did take part in the blind commitment, however, it also sounds like she made a conscious commitment as well. I think anyone singing a blind commitment has two commitments to make. The initial one that is required, and then a second one to themselves and the situation once they learn what it is.

That's exactly what my beef with Keller is - she's been thrust into Atlantis (and the viewers/fans) without rhyme or reason.

It would be reasonable to assume that the Pegasus expedition team was hand-picked after careful deliberation and review of their qualifications (including psych evaluations, special training, etc.). One would think that a secret project of this magnitude would require the best and brightest, people who are naturally predisposed to dealing well with unexpected and threatening situations, not just anyone who cares to join. That's why Keller as a CMO of Atlantis - especially after viewing Missing - is a very questionable choice.

[BoyNamedSue]

Which is exactly how the character was supposed to be. Keller was supposed to be frail and self-doubting in the episode and if that's how people found her, then all the more credit to Jewel Staite for portraying the character that way.

It also would have been completely absurd for her to be completely calm and collected in the situation given that she's a civilian doctor. The only way I could fathom Keller reacting differently than she did would have been if she was a military doctor who had served time in Iraq or some other combat zone, treating wounded soldiers under fire.

This whole frail, self-doubting shtick is getting a little old after 5 of 8 episodes she's supposed to be in this season. I think it's expected that the CMO may be required to treat wounded off-world and in combat situations, and that they should be able to deal with it. Maybe that's the problem, maybe Atlantis needs a military doctor (one like Janet Fraser), someone with experience of dangerous, high-pressure situations. PG is not for the faint-hearted.

Someone else said that confidence comes with experience - CMO is a senior position, and it's reasonable to think that it would be filled by someone with experience. I understand that appointing Keller as a replacement was necessary because of the crisis they were in at the time, but it's not like Atlantis is STILL cut off from Earth and lacking access to an experienced replacement. Carter arrived from Earth to replace Weir after all. Military leader for a civilian one, so maybe same should have been done with the CMO.

[blue-skyz]

I think it's expected that the CMO may be required to treat wounded off-world and in combat situations, and that they should be able to deal with it. Maybe that's the problem, maybe Atlantis needs a military doctor (one like Janet Fraser), someone with experience of dangerous, high-pressure situations. PG is not for the faint-hearted.

I agree that most of the non-scientists should be military. The reasons are economics and practicality. Beckett was part of the original group, however they came together. And, besides, he was a scientist, too. The other doctors should have been military, as well as all of the nurses and all of Atlantis’s support personnel. Top secret clearance investigations are very expensive and take a long time. It would be much more economical to perform them for personnel already contracted to the government, e.g. the military. I have often wondered what the logistics are for hiring a cook or a janitor for a beyond top secret facility in another galaxy. Drawing from government services, the military, is the most expeditious and economical method. Best for security, too, to have employees that can also defend the city.

[jelgate]

I agree that most of the non-scientists should be military. The reasons are economics and practicality. Beckett was part of the original group, however they came together. And, besides, he was a scientist, too. The other doctors should have been military, as well as all of the nurses and all of Atlantis’s support personnel. Top secret clearance investigations are very expensive and take a long time. It would be much more economical to perform them for personnel already contracted to the government, e.g. the military. I have often wondered what the logistics are for hiring a cook or a janitor for a beyond top secret facility in another galaxy. Drawing from government services, the military, is the most expeditious and economical method. Best for security, too, to have employees that can also defend the city.

When your in a placce like Atlantis sometimes you need the best of the best in terms of sciencetist. Sometimes these people aren't military.

[blue-skyz]

When your in a placce like Atlantis sometimes you need the best of the best in terms of sciencetist. Sometimes these people aren't military.

I agree that most of the non-scientists should be military.

Ordinary medical doctors would not be scientists.

[CalmStorm]

I agree that most of the non-scientists should be military. The reasons are economics and practicality. Beckett was part of the original group, however they came together. And, besides, he was a scientist, too. The other doctors should have been military, as well as all of the nurses and all of Atlantis’s support personnel. Top secret clearance investigations are very expensive and take a long time. It would be much more economical to perform them for personnel already contracted to the government, e.g. the military. I have often wondered what the logistics are for hiring a cook or a janitor for a beyond top secret facility in another galaxy. Drawing from government services, the military, is the most expeditious and economical method. Best for security, too, to have employees that can also defend the city.

Yes, the stargate program is primarily a U.S. military operation, which is why on SG-1 you had a heavy presence of military scientist and doctors. The program was not exclusively military personnel only, but they seemed to account for a very large percentage of the program.

The Atlantis expedition is a joint venture of sorts with other countries. While it may be a bit more costly in terms of clearance investigations, that cost should also be distributed among the participating countries.

Regardless, of military versus non-military, all those in the program should go through regular self-defense training. The scientist have defended the city on countless occasions through their knowledge, not their brawn (or lack of). It is the job of the military to protect the city and its inhabitants from physical assaults and attacks. That is the primary purpose of any military, to serve and protect those who cannot protect themselves.

I think it is good that the expedition is a well rounded mix of military and non-military. As for Keller, she and any other non-military personnel who will potentially go off-world, should go through self-defense and basic training techniques to protect not only themselves, but to help from becoming a liability to those they are with.

Keller, being the CMO, should have already been exposed to self-defense knowing that she would have to go off-world at some point. It would only make sense. So do we blame the character for not being trained in self-defense, or the leader of the expedition for not requiring and seeing to it that the scientist and non-military are properly trained, or the head of the military contingent for not fighting harder to have those people trained? Whose responsibility is it to ensure that everyone on the base has some self-defense training?

[blue-skyz]

Keller, being the CMO, should have already been exposed to self-defense knowing that she would have to go off-world at some point. It would only make sense. So do we blame the character for not being trained in self-defense, or the leader of the expedition for not requiring and seeing to it that the scientist and non-military are properly trained, or the head of the military contingent for not fighting harder to have those people trained? Whose responsibility is it to ensure that everyone on the base has some self-defense training?

The writers.

[BoyNamedSue]

I agree that most of the non-scientists should be military. The reasons are economics and practicality. Beckett was part of the original group, however they came together. And, besides, he was a scientist, too. The other doctors should have been military, as well as all of the nurses and all of Atlantis’s support personnel. Top secret clearance investigations are very expensive and take a long time. It would be much more economical to perform them for personnel already contracted to the government, e.g. the military. I have often wondered what the logistics are for hiring a cook or a janitor for a beyond top secret facility in another galaxy. Drawing from government services, the military, is the most expeditious and economical method. Best for security, too, to have employees that can also defend the city.

I'm working on a fanfic that explains that

*snipped*

Keller, being the CMO, should have already been exposed to self-defense knowing that she would have to go off-world at some point. It would only make sense. So do we blame the character for not being trained in self-defense, or the leader of the expedition for not requiring and seeing to it that the scientist and non-military are properly trained, or the head of the military contingent for not fighting harder to have those people trained? Whose responsibility is it to ensure that everyone on the base has some self-defense training?

The writers.

LOL!!! blue-skyz, you're so in my head! That was my answer as soon as I've read CalmStorm's comment. I blame TPTB, JM and Co. The average Stargate fan is quite analytical and insightful, IMO, and they keep ignoring that. Yeah, yeah, I know it's just a tv show, and we're discussing a secret expedition fighting the Wraith in the Pegasus Galaxy, but would it hurt if the grounds for picking a certain person for a certain job would be explained and based on reason?

[CalmStorm]

LOL!!! blue-skyz, you're so in my head! That was my answer as soon as I've read CalmStorm's comment.

It is also the answer I had in mind. The character is a result of the lines provided. If people want to complain about the characters whiny nature, then that is a result of the writers providing whiny lines. If people want to talk about the lack of training for the characters, it is because the writers are not incorporating training into the characters.

To critique Keller as good or bad, is to critique how she is written. If Keller was written as strong and confident, would there be as much criticism on how good or bad she is, with the focus being on the bad?

Lack of confidence seems to be a plague throughout the series. McKay, generally speaking, has a whiny 'this is impossible, we're all going to die' attitude, and then always pulls out a miracle. They wrote Weir as someone who at times seemed confident and put on a strong appearance, but showed her as someone who also questioned her abilities. They wrote Beckett and Keller much the same way. Carter, for the most part, knows she is brilliant, but at the same time was always doubting her leadership abilities. Perhaps now that has changed for the Carter character, but how many years did that take?

This is a group of brilliant, successful people. Why can they not be written with a lot more confidence and trust in their abilities? If this is the best and the brightest of military and scientist, then why is basic self-defense even an issue? Why has it not been incorporated into the program? You would think it would be common sense to train those going into a possibly hostile environment the very basics of self-defense.

[Mitchell82]

Why the need to apologize?

I was playing it safe as it seems it is easy to offend some these days. I'd rather appolagise in advance just in case.

As far as the 'beyond top-secret' nature of the stargate that is understandable. However, plenty of people seem to be aware of the stargate and many without signing a blind commitment. The stargate is not as big a secret as it might have once been.

Um just a question but who? Kinsey and any other civilian would have to sign a non disclosure aggrement. Just as would all military personell and any guests ie, Teal'c, Vala, Jonas, etc..This comes from expiernce mind you. Anyone who is let in to a top secret or above program either signs an NDA or a blind commitment.

The bottom line is that Keller said she knew what she was signing up for. So, to me, it is entirely believable that she meant just that. From the information that has been provided, we I cannot be certain without a doubt that she had to sign a blind commitment. There are plenty of others who did not have to do so.

Neither can I but you say plenty others just exactly who? It is possible that many like the military would already know but Carson was the one that said that and it makes sense for the civilian screening. However regardless it is higlhy possible she didn't look before she lept. In other words didn't realise just what she got herself into.

It is hard to imagine the SGC forcing someone to travel to another galaxy without their consent upon knowing what they would be doing. I don't see Landry, Oneill, Hammond, or any one else in that position doing such a thing. Even Weir gave everyone at the start of the journey the chance to back out of it.

Yeah and the trip to the SGC was after said documents were signed and yes the military would do that as a safeguard. They would sat just enough to entice someone and give them the option. In order to know more you must sign otherwise they point to the door. That is usually standard with non military. As said in "secrets" civilians sign NDA. I know from experience that if they are unaware of what they are going to see will sign before they are shown and if they are it is for insurance.

[jelgate]

Ordinary medical doctors would not be scientists.

My point still applies, you want the best doctors in Atlantis, sometimes the best isn't military

[Avenger]

This whole frail, self-doubting shtick is getting a little old after 5 of 8 episodes she's supposed to be in this season. I think it's expected that the CMO may be required to treat wounded off-world and in combat situations, and that they should be able to deal with it. Maybe that's the problem, maybe Atlantis needs a military doctor (one like Janet Fraser), someone with experience of dangerous, high-pressure situations. PG is not for the faint-hearted.

Someone else said that confidence comes with experience - CMO is a senior position, and it's reasonable to think that it would be filled by someone with experience. I understand that appointing Keller as a replacement was necessary because of the crisis they were in at the time, but it's not like Atlantis is STILL cut off from Earth and lacking access to an experienced replacement. Carter arrived from Earth to replace Weir after all. Military leader for a civilian one, so maybe same should have been done with the CMO.

She was unsure of being given the CMO position after Carson was gone. She was scared when she was being chased by cannibals. It was her first off-world mission. Your real issue is why they chose a civilian doctor instead of military doctor with field experience, which is a legitimate question that should be directed at TPTB. The character of Dr. Keller reacted just as a regular person would have.

[jelgate]

She was unsure of being given the CMO position after Carson was gone.?* She was scared when she was being chased by cannibals.?* It was her first off-world mission.?* Your real issue is why they chose a civilian doctor instead of military doctor with field experience, which is a legitimate question that should be directed at TPTB.?* The character of Dr. Keller reacted just as a regular person would have.

I Agree 100%. Dr. Keller acted like any civilian given?* her situation. I know I would panic if canibals were chasing me.