Get rid of Sheppard, bring back Ford.

[jenks]

This is just what I think before I get flamed:

Good Characters:
Mckay
Ronon
Lorne
Ford
Zelenka
Beckett
Cadman
Caldwell
Novak
Hermiod

Bad Characters:
Weir (not particulary, but she doesn't seem like the ideal leader)
Sheppard
Teyla

[AtlantisForever]

This is just what I think before I get flamed:

Good Characters:
Mckay
Ronon
Lorne
Ford
Zelenka
Beckett
Cadman
Caldwell
Novak
Hermiod

Bad Characters:
Weir (not particulary, but she doesn't seem like the ideal leader)
Sheppard
Teyla

ok m8 let me change this around alittle for you so u get the idea...

Good Characters:
Mckay
Ronon
Lorne
Zelenka
Beckett
Caldwell
Novak
Hermiod
Sheppard
Teyla

Bad Characters:
Weir (not particulary, but she doesn't seem like the ideal leader)
Cadman
Ford

there ya go all betta

[gatelover12]

Um, you DO realize that everyone is entitled to their own opinion right? His is just as valid as your's, even if your's came off slightly condescending.

[ShadowMaat]

Well ya know what, mate, that list may work for YOU but the rest of the world is under absolutely NO obligations to kowtow to YOUR point of view.

There is no right or wrong when it comes to an OPINION so please stop implying that YOUR way is the only "right" interpretation.

[ShadowMaat]

OK, so we'll just step away from the kid with the giant "ban me" target painted on his forehead. I imagine the splatter is going to be significant.

Let's face it, ALL the characters on Atlantis need more development, except maybe McKay. Shep, Weir, Teyla, Carson, Lorne, Zelenka, FORD...

Maybe if the writers spent more time on developing their characters and less time on trying to fulfill their fanboy fantasies, folks wouldn't feel the need for "Kill Shep" kinda threads and fans wouldn't bait each other with "that character was a nothing" comments.

edit: hee! Of course, I suppose I should temper all that by saying that it's just my opinion. With trouble-seeking missiles about, I don't wanna come across as a target.

[ShadowMaat]

You honestly think Lorne will be around forever? Military leader we see every once in a while. In my experience with these shows, it's only a matter of time before they kill him off. Not trying to scare you, but I've seen happen all the time.

Alas, no, I have a dismaying feeling that Lorne's days are numbered. Perhaps very numbered. But if I let that kind of stuff get in my way I'd never be able to say anything positive because the characters I love the most are all tagged as expendable. *sigh*

Besides, after the months of paranoid agony after Joe Mallozzi's ominous rumblings about Lorne's fate in... a certain S2 ep, I've more or less come to terms with Major Hottie's mortality.

[prion]

*gives GL a cookie* Good boy.

Unfortunately, I don't think confining Shep to Atlantis would help. He's too full of himself and his own superiority/immortality to heed warnings from anyone.

Well, I realize this is the Anti-Sheppard thread (so why not just rename it to that? Kill is just so... well, bloodthirsty, and not in the whumping kind of way). Anyway, I'm here to defend the poor fictitious character

I don't see Shep as full of himself. Confident, yes. Show me any military pilot who ISN'T. It's basically a job requirement. I seriously doubt he's full of his own 'immortality' as he was seconds away from nuking himself in the hive ship in "Siege III". Superiority? Hmm, sorry, you've confused him with McKay Really. If you want to talk ego and "I can do anything," it's Mr. blow up 5/6th of a galaxy But I still like Rodney despite his faults.

Now if you want a near perfect leader, just go to Stargate SG-1. You want Jack O'Neill (except for the pod-Jack version). Jack took the job as leader, but remember, just like Shep, it wasn't really willingly. He could fess up to NOT obeying orders (the horrors!) of blowing up Abydos and save Daniel and the rest, or keep his mouth shut. He did the former. It's hardly SHep's fault he's got the gene and the Colonel whatshiname got sucked dry.

[Trialia]

Oh, by the way, girls and boys, this is an anti-Sheppard thread, not an anti-Weir thread, so please quit bashing her and save that for a different thread. She's my favourite character and it irks me to no end to read bashing comments.

As for Painted Target... yes, I agree with you Shadow.

I want season 1 John back.

[ShadowMaat]

I don't see Shep as full of himself. Confident, yes. Show me any military pilot who ISN'T. It's basically a job requirement. I seriously doubt he's full of his own 'immortality' as he was seconds away from nuking himself in the hive ship in "Siege III". Superiority? Hmm, sorry, you've confused him with McKay Really. If you want to talk ego and "I can do anything," it's Mr. blow up 5/6th of a galaxy But I still like Rodney despite his faults.

Maybe Shep's been hanging around McKay too long, then.

Now if you want a near perfect leader, just go to Stargate SG-1. You want Jack O'Neill (except for the pod-Jack version). Jack took the job as leader, but remember, just like Shep, it wasn't really willingly. He could fess up to NOT obeying orders (the horrors!) of blowing up Abydos and save Daniel and the rest, or keep his mouth shut. He did the former. It's hardly SHep's fault he's got the gene and the Colonel whatshiname got sucked dry.

And if we were talking bare-bones action, yes. But it's the attitude behind the actions I have trouble with. With O'Neill, I could more or less accept it (although I didn't always like him ,either), but with Shep... he just rubs me the wrong way. *shrug* Maybe I feel like O'Neill has "earned" the right to behave the way he does, but with Shep... I just have a hard time accepting it.

The superiority/immortality thing may have been overstating things a bit, but I do still feel that Shep is pretty full of himself.

I think another part of it is that I often agreed with O'Neill's course of action when he disobeyed orders, but I sometimes feel that Shep is wrong- even if he winds up "winning" in the end.

And the kirking thing really really really really really really REALLY grates on my nerves. REALLY.

[ShadowMaat]

Oh, by the way, girls and boys, this is an anti-Sheppard thread, not an anti-Weir thread, so please quit bashing her and save that for a different thread. She's my favourite character and it irks me to no end to read bashing comments.

I wasn't aware this was an anti-Sheppard thread. I thought it was a discussion about whether or not we wanted Shep in S3 and in what capacity we wanted him. There was also talk of bringing Ford back in his stead and this spawned a long and interesting discussion about "Leadership!" as McKay would say and about which characters were liked and disliked and who should be on which team.

Unless the mods come in and limit the topic, I don't see why Weir can't be discussed here as well. I haven't seen nearly as much "bashing" of her as I have of Sheppard, but since she IS in command of Atlantis (more or less) and is involved in the decision-making and has a good bit of interaction with Sheppard, I should think she's as fair game as anyone.

I'm sorry if you don't like to see people "bashing" her, but since this isn't (currently) a protected thread and it definitely isn't pro-Weir only, differring opinions are going to crop up.

[prion]

[QUOTE=ShadowMaat]I wasn't aware this was an anti-Sheppard thread.
[QUOTE]


Uh, perhaps it's the title "KILL SHEPPARD"???? That sounds just a wee bit on the anti- side to me, wouldn't you say??

Sure wouldn't call it a lovefest...

[ShadowMaat]

I've seen a fair bit of defense of Sheppard as well, and quite a number of suggestions for improvement of the character. Most people, even those who aren't fond of Shep, have said that they don't want him dead. Some want changes, many like him but have specific gripes, and a few have offered alternate means of getting rid of him- some meant in all seriousness and others just in fun, I think.

[prion]

Quote:
Originally Posted by prion
I don't see Shep as full of himself. Confident, yes. Show me any military pilot who ISN'T. It's basically a job requirement. I seriously doubt he's full of his own 'immortality' as he was seconds away from nuking himself in the hive ship in "Siege III". Superiority? Hmm, sorry, you've confused him with McKay Really. If you want to talk ego and "I can do anything," it's Mr. blow up 5/6th of a galaxy But I still like Rodney despite his faults.

Maybe Shep's been hanging around McKay too long, then.

Hmm, I woudln't think McKay could influence anybody. Repell, maybe, but not influence


Quote:
Now if you want a near perfect leader, just go to Stargate SG-1. You want Jack O'Neill (except for the pod-Jack version). Jack took the job as leader, but remember, just like Shep, it wasn't really willingly. He could fess up to NOT obeying orders (the horrors!) of blowing up Abydos and save Daniel and the rest, or keep his mouth shut. He did the former. It's hardly SHep's fault he's got the gene and the Colonel whatshiname got sucked dry.

And if we were talking bare-bones action, yes. But it's the attitude behind the actions I have trouble with. With O'Neill, I could more or less accept it (although I didn't always like him ,either), but with Shep... he just rubs me the wrong way. *shrug* Maybe I feel like O'Neill has "earned" the right to behave the way he does, but with Shep... I just have a hard time accepting it.

I work with what I'm given on the show, although would desperately like to see more. I've seen Shep do a few things that make me smack my head, but honestly, no more than Jack, or any other SG character has done. THey're all imperfect. God forbid if they were perfect, but you have different likes than me, so, ce, oh, heck, I didn't do well in French, that phrase...

The superiority/immortality thing may have been overstating things a bit, but I do still feel that Shep is pretty full of himself.

I think another part of it is that I often agreed with O'Neill's course of action when he disobeyed orders, but I sometimes feel that Shep is wrong- even if he winds up "winning" in the end.

Can you cite some examples? Cuz it's been a long day and I'm trying ot wean off coffee so I'm fading. "Hot ZOne," but that did go in his record. I recall that. I woudln't say "Defiant One" had a cheery ending....

And the kirking thing really really really really really really REALLY grates on my nerves. REALLY.

Well, the only awful bit of kirking was in THE TOWER. And they'll do the opposite of kirking - what would they call it - in season three with that gawdawful IRREISTIBLE episode, if the spoilers are any indication... at least Shep won't be affected from what we can tell.

[Trialia]

I wasn't aware this was an anti-Sheppard thread. I thought it was a discussion about whether or not we wanted Shep in S3 and in what capacity we wanted him. There was also talk of bringing Ford back in his stead and this spawned a long and interesting discussion about "Leadership!" as McKay would say and about which characters were liked and disliked and who should be on which team.

Shadow, honey, despite our defence of him as a character, the original post subject of this thread defines it as anti-Shep.

Unless the mods come in and limit the topic, I don't see why Weir can't be discussed here as well. I haven't seen nearly as much "bashing" of her as I have of Sheppard, but since she IS in command of Atlantis (more or less) and is involved in the decision-making and has a good bit of interaction with Sheppard, I should think she's as fair game as anyone.

I'm sorry if you don't like to see people "bashing" her, but since this isn't (currently) a protected thread and it definitely isn't pro-Weir only, differring opinions are going to crop up.

Whatever, Shadow. As I said before, that's got nothing to do with the original post subject, which only involved Sheppard and Ford.

And I doubt that you're sorry, so please, don't be hypocritical by saying so.

EDIT: And for the love of sanity, could we PLEASE get the title of the thread corrected? It's driving me bats.

[ShadowMaat]

Can you cite some examples? Cuz it's been a long day and I'm trying ot wean off coffee so I'm fading. "Hot ZOne," but that did go in his record. I recall that. I woudln't say "Defiant One" had a cheery ending....

Hmm. On closer examination, Hot Zone could be it. I don't think I realized myself just how much he pissed me off in that ep. He has been involved in making a number of supremely stupid decisions. Michael being an example that springs most readily to mind. Although his willingness to help out in The Tower is another example. There was more stupidity in Critical Mass. And Coup d'Etat. And Allies. But that could probably be more of a general complaint about the show rather than specific to Sheppard. Although he did blatantly ignore Teyla and her concerns in Michael and Allies.

Well, the only awful bit of kirking was in THE TOWER.

What I saw of Inferno seemed to be leaning heavily towards the "Shep letches after some sweet young thing" and a bit in Epiphany as well. And while some (including Teyla herself) may be able to forgive what Shep did in Conversion, I can't. And I'm sick of the "alien influence" BS excuse.