Get rid of Sheppard, bring back Ford.

[ShadowMaat]

This isn't meant as an insult or anything, but I've never met anyone as cynical as you... Is there anything you do like about SGA anymore?

I like McKay... when he isn't being heavily spotlighted and turned into a laughingstock. I love Zelenka. I love Lorne. I think one of Atlantis's strengths is its recurring characters. It's probably just me, but TPTB seem to do a better job of developing/handling their secondaries than they do their leads.

I like it when they remember they're in the heart of an Ancient city and decide to explore it (not that they've really done that in S2). I like some of the banter... although it'd be nice if TPTB could remember there's more to dialogue than witty banter and exposition. Or witty exposition.

I like the seemingly rare occasions when TPTB remember that there's more to storytelling than recycling plots form SG-1/Trek/Buffy/whatever.

I love the potential for the show, I just feel that a lot of it is being wasted on cheap, shallow plots and using stupidity to accomplish drama.

[maxbo]

Sheppard and Ford are such different characters and each serves such different functions that I don't believe anyone seriously expects them to be interchangeable. At this point, I don't want to see any more characters removed unless the actors want off the show. It's pathetic that TPTB has forced characters off the show due to lazy, unimaginative writing instead of taking the the novel approach of improving the writing for those characters first.

For instance, I love Ronon, but the same lazy writing is there for him as was in place for Ford, so what did this change really accomplish? IMO, Sheppard should stay and Ford should never have been removed, and, Ronon could still have been added without taking anything away from Sheppard and Ford.

Ford served a purpose that no one covers now as the eager, wide-eyed, surprisingly astute and accomplished regular guy sort of character. He did his job and did it well, but there wasn't anything extraordinary about him. He didn't have the ancient gene, he wasn't super-smart, he didn't have Wraith DNA. etc., he was just loyal and did his job well, that's all. I miss that.

[Linzi]

Sorry, but I don't buy that, either. For many of the same reasons plus a lot of it can be idle curiosity or more interest in what the fans are up to than anything about the actual character/actor.

Is it written anywhere that pageviews are the equivalent of Nielsen ratings?

I understand what you're saying, but idle curiosity doesn't make the thread hit count consistently high. If casual viewers didn't like the character they wouldn't come back on a regular basis, they'd be curious, not enjoy and leave. Of course hits on a character thread aren't like Nielsen ratings, but it's a pretty good indication of how popular a character is, IMO. I could talk about character polls I've seen on other forums as a means of showing how popular certain characters are, but again, that's people who are very involved in the fandom, so it's not a particularly broad view. Funnily enough in every one I've seen so far, Sheppard is the most popular character, with McKay yapping at his heels. (Not polls for physical looks, just the character him/herself).

[ShadowMaat]

I'd say that Ford, Ronon, and Teyla all suffer from skeletal characterization. Replacing Ford with Ronon does seem a little... moot. Granted, I think we're getting an ep about Ronon in S3- and I hope it's REAL character development, but... I dunno. I'm kinda "meh" on a lot of stuff right now.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

Ever heard of too much of a good thing?

Certain characters are great as secondary characters but just because someones great in an relativly minor role doesn't mean they would be great in a major role.

Take Zelenka for example, probably the best loved secondary character, to "promote" him to a main character would call for significant character changes - McKay may be alittle cowardly at times but Zelenka actively hates going off world (he only left for the first time in "Duet") he's a lab rat and it's part of what makes him great. Going of world and fighting the Wraith isn't part of his character


Someone being a great minor character doesn't mean the'll translate well to being a major character and you risk ruining a good thing.


As for Sheppard, yeah the whole "kirking" thing gets irritating but he's by no means a terrible character - here's hoping TPTB give him better stories in S£

[ShadowMaat]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to suggest that EVERYONE be made into secondary characters. They seem to get better development and- to toss the "too much of a good thing" comment back into the fray- it'd be harder for folks to overdose on TEH HEROES if we got a bit less of them. .

[prion]

Actually, I'd be more inclined to suggest that EVERYONE be made into secondary characters. They seem to get better development and- to toss the "too much of a good thing" comment back into the fray- it'd be harder for folks to overdose on TEH HEROES if we got a bit less of them. .

Well, the heroes are the heroes because that's the way the show is. If everybody was secondary, you wouldn't see Jack/Mitchell, Sam, Teal'c and Daniel going through the gate every episode, ditto with the SGA team. And it's also the way much of the audience desires it to be, to have someone to cheer for, etc. It would be like taking the Jack Bauer character on "24" and rotating him with someone else every week. Wouldn't work.

Secondary characters are allowed to be "quirky" becuase if a viewer goes "gah, what an idiot," it won't truly impact their viewership. It's a person who is not in the forefront of most of the episode. They're character actors, basically. Heroes unfortunately must have certain defining qualities (like risking their lives, getting beaten up so that his buddies can get away, etc., etc.) that people have been seeing since the old silent movie days.

However, I think they need to do a better balancing act on McKay and Sheppard, as McKay does seem to get more airtime/dialogue .He's not a hero, per se, so he can have flaws up the whazzoo (and he does) and the writers love writing for him, but it's time for them, now in year 3, to give the fans more on Sheppard.

[Linzi]

Well, the heroes are the heroes because that's the way the show is. If everybody was secondary, you wouldn't see Jack/Mitchell, Sam, Teal'c and Daniel going through the gate every episode, ditto with the SGA team. And it's also the way much of the audience desires it to be, to have someone to cheer for, etc. It would be like taking the Jack Bauer character on "24" and rotating him with someone else every week. Wouldn't work.

Secondary characters are allowed to be "quirky" becuase if a viewer goes "gah, what an idiot," it won't truly impact their viewership. It's a person who is not in the forefront of most of the episode. They're character actors, basically. Heroes unfortunately must have certain defining qualities (like risking their lives, getting beaten up so that his buddies can get away, etc., etc.) that people have been seeing since the old silent movie days.

However, I think they need to do a better balancing act on McKay and Sheppard, as McKay does seem to get more airtime/dialogue .He's not a hero, per se, so he can have flaws up the whazzoo (and he does) and the writers love writing for him, but it's time for them, now in year 3, to give the fans more on Sheppard.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[ShadowMaat]

*sigh* Maybe I should add a tag to all my posts to make it clear when I'm not being serious. Obviously making everyone secondaries would never work. That's idiotic. You can't have a show about nothing! You can't have a show with no focal characters.

I do, however, think that the secondaries tend to get better development. On Atlantis, anyway. Maybe because TPTB aren't trying so hard. Or because we don't see them all the time so it makes them automatically more intriguing. Or because they eat Cheetos. Who knows? But the way the main characters are currently being "developed" leaves a lot to be desired. At least by me. It's too much The Shep and Rodney Show, with little or no attention given to anyone else. And even the attention that's given to Shep and Rodney tends to be on the shallow side. Shep letches after women and Rodney has ego issues. That's pretty much it.

I don't think Shep needs to be written off the show, but he does need to be WRITTEN. Something beyond the shallow and obvious. Something meaty. And something that lasts more than one ep.

[Bragi]

I liked Ford and all.... and I'm dissapointed that they got rid of him....... but.





No.

[Merlin7]

*sigh* Maybe I should add a tag to all my posts to make it clear when I'm not being serious. Obviously making everyone secondaries would never work. That's idiotic. You can't have a show about nothing! You can't have a show with no focal characters.

I do, however, think that the secondaries tend to get better development. On Atlantis, anyway. Maybe because TPTB aren't trying so hard. Or because we don't see them all the time so it makes them automatically more intriguing. Or because they eat Cheetos. Who knows? But the way the main characters are currently being "developed" leaves a lot to be desired. At least by me. It's too much The Shep and Rodney Show, with little or no attention given to anyone else. And even the attention that's given to Shep and Rodney tends to be on the shallow side. Shep letches after women and Rodney has ego issues. That's pretty much it.

I don't think Shep needs to be written off the show, but he does need to be WRITTEN. Something beyond the shallow and obvious. Something meaty. And something that lasts more than one ep.

And a whole heaping WORLD of WORD to you.

[knocknashee]

I liked Ford and all.... and I'm dissapointed that they got rid of him....... but.





No.

That is quite possibly the best response to the original post I've read in this thread so far...

I agree with everyone who says the characters all need better development...too much with the shallow and needs sorting...

[Linzi]

I don't think Shep needs to be written off the show, but he does need to be WRITTEN. Something beyond the shallow and obvious. Something meaty. And something that lasts more than one ep.

No argument from me here.

[O'Neill4prez]

this is a really stupid idea. Sheppard is brillant leader and a brillant character, like a young Jack, Joe Flannigan has filled the role excellently. the gene therapy only worked in fifty per cent of people and Ford is only a lieutenant, he could never be given command and the military wont trust him for a while because he is addicted Ford was great too but no way get rid of Shep

[ShadowMaat]

See, all these comments about Shep being a "Young Jack" might sound like compliments to some, but I see it as proof of the lack in character development/distinction. Granted, maybe the comparisons are impossible to avoid, but I'd like to see Shep being more his own character and less like Jack Lite or Young Jack.