Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

it's actually this one

Ford looks pretty good in red.

[Nolamom]

doesn't he just?

[Southern Red]

doesn't he just?

*snort*

[gateraid]

Are you being sarcastic here or for reals?

Cause err.... I didn't watch SGU out of spite, but not necessarily out of spite for the cancellation of SGA, just a general out of spite.

Since then I've watched a few minutes here and there, and got all woozy in the head from the shaking camera.

***

I watched SG1 from the beginning as it aired on Belgian TV and was a huge fan. Still am to this day, though SGA did take first spot.

^ same. Spite for me too. It helped that it didn't air on tv here until much later, and even when it did it was in a much later timeslot. The fact that I watched through til the end of s1 was only due to me getting it out on dvd. If I were tuning in each week, it would have failed the 3ep test for me too.

I must say I was surprised that they did manage to get the 'names' they did though - Robert Carlyle, LG Jnr, Rhona Mitra, Ming Na. Mind you, I guess they were all recognisable but not A list per se. Still, casting like that must have run the production costs up somewhat

I personally prefer the last seasons of SG1, i have watched all the episodes from seasons 7 to 10 (although i have watched many episodes from the other seasons, but i know there are still quite a few that i missed.) I think SG1 become more interesting when they begun searching for things related with the Ancients.

That's an interesting point to watch from. IMO a lot of s7 was boring (not counting Heroes - one of the best episodes they've done, although I wish they hadn't done it) because it was exposition/setup for The Lost City, their season ender. Had I started from that point, it would have failed the 3ep test too

I was being serious. I didn't realize that anyone actually did that, but if that's the way you felt, you probably wouldn't have liked it no matter what. We started watching it out of curiosity, hoping that it would be good but the more we watched the less we liked it.

I did resent the fact, though, that they seemed to think we would continue watching even if we didn't like it just because it was Stargate. Everybody I know in RL who was a Stargate fan was very disappointed in SGU. The lack of humor and unlikable characters were the main complaints.

I was insulted by that too. It was even more glaring when they added in O'Neill and Carter - not only did they both seem like they were phoning it in, they seemed out of place in that universe.

And you only need to look through this thread to see that not everyone's tastes are the same. There's no way I could convince you to watch Family Guy for me (there's probably a better example than that but it was the first one to pop into my head) because its infantile, profane and silly, just like none of you could convince me to watch Castle (beyond the snippets I have seen) because....well I didn't like it, no need to insult the show for no reason

I think I may join you in that. Mr. SR and I have established a strict "no more J.J.Abrams shows" policy now that Fringe is going off because his shows start out great and then get too complicated. TPTW for SGA, however, fall into a different category.



Very well said. I think the problem was that they did expect a different audience but didn't get one. They were hoping to keep the Stargate fans and add new viewers, but I guess it didn't happen.

If they wanted to keep the same audience, they needed to make a similar type of show. A new audience would have required a completely different premise. Trying to push a sci-fi show into the mainstream is an uphill battle at the best of times.

I've noticed too that there don't seem to be very many SGU actors at cons these days. Chicago, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't have anyone from SGU scheduled.

This is probably a bit judgmental, but they probably weren't as typecast as others were. I suspect they probably picked up smaller parts elsewhere. I think most people would recognise Ming Na from ER, not SGU.

[JT-2]

The bit in Reunion was being played for laughs, that may explain why not much thought went into characterisation. Not a very good call IMO

Oh yeah. I listened to the commentary where Mallozzi thought it was just hilarious. Sorry, but that's not my Rodney who always respected and liked Elizabeth.

I personally prefer the last seasons of SG1, i have watched all the episodes from seasons 7 to 10 (although i have watched many episodes from the other seasons, but i know there are still quite a few that i missed.) I think SG1 become more interesting when they begun searching for things related with the Ancients.

I've watched all the Vala episodes (just loved her) and a smattering of others.

I was being serious. I didn't realize that anyone actually did that, but if that's the way you felt, you probably wouldn't have liked it no matter what. We started watching it out of curiosity, hoping that it would be good but the more we watched the less we liked it.

I did resent the fact, though, that they seemed to think we would continue watching even if we didn't like it just because it was Stargate. Everybody I know in RL who was a Stargate fan was very disappointed in SGU. The lack of humor and unlikable characters were the main complaints.

Or how we were supposed to keep loving Seasons 4 and 5 even when they turned to drek?

I think the idea was that it was insulting on a general level because they blamed spite for being powerful enough to kill the show. And the implication being that there's no way that the fans wouldn't have disliked the show enough to kill it if they weren't bitter about SGA.

That might be a little unfair I suppose because in the past they seemed to understand that not all fans of one show necessarily will love the other too (one of them said as much on a SGA commentary. The Return Part 2, I think), but they certainly did seem to expect their new show to succeed based on brand loyalty.

But even if someone did want to support the Stargate in general, no fan should be expected to be watching something they don't like in order to support a franchise they do.

I think If one wants to make a different show fine. Expect a different audience.

Now that all the dust has settled, and I occasionally see SGU mixed in with other Stargate tributes on youtube and so forth, I've been sometimes struck by how little I miss that show.

Which is to say, I suppose technically I do, but not very much.

Nicely said. It also overestimates the online fan base. We're a tiny fraction of the entire audience who watches the shows. The vast majority of people who watched the shows had no idea of the BTS stuff with SGA being cancelled "because" of SGU.

Also, it was a lame excuse for the producers. Like they had zero blame for not making a product that people wanted.

I think I may join you in that. Mr. SR and I have established a strict "no more J.J.Abrams shows" policy now that Fringe is going off because his shows start out great and then get too complicated. TPTW for SGA, however, fall into a different category.

OMG, that was Alias. Started off so strong, but got so freaking convoluted.

SK I'm just not a big LOTR fan in general. I tried to read and watch Fellowship and couldn't get through it. . . altho Liv Tyler makes a cute elf and the music is fantastic

I'm going to shock everyone and admit I've never seen any of the LOTR movies or read any of the books.

a little something I whipped up...

[]http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/Nolamom/Shippiness/Nearlyakiss.jpg[/IMG]

Awesome!!!!

And you only need to look through this thread to see that not everyone's tastes are the same. There's no way I could convince you to watch Family Guy for me (there's probably a better example than that but it was the first one to pop into my head) because its infantile, profane and silly, just like none of you could convince me to watch Castle (beyond the snippets I have seen) because....well I didn't like it, no need to insult the show for no reason

Family Guy!! I love Family Guy! It's based in my home state of RI. The places they mention on the show are real places. Like Barrington is a rich town. But the actors always pronounce Pawtucket wrong.

[gateraid]

Oh yeah. I listened to the commentary where Mallozzi thought it was just hilarious. Sorry, but that's not my Rodney who always respected and liked Elizabeth.

No, it wasn't Rodney. Not when only a few episodes prior he'd gone out of his way to show his loyalty to her, and then went to extraordinary measures to save her life (which then lead to her getting captured, but I digress)

Nicely said. It also overestimates the online fan base. We're a tiny fraction of the entire audience who watches the shows. The vast majority of people who watched the shows had no idea of the BTS stuff with SGA being cancelled "because" of SGU.

^ this. I don't know how I would have reacted to some of the s4 stuff had I not been on GW, but I suspect I would have given up on s4 because the early eps made no sense. If one needs to look 'outside' of the show in order to watch it, then they've made a boob somewhere

I'm going to shock everyone and admit I've never seen any of the LOTR movies or read any of the books.

Here was I thinking I was the only one

Family Guy!! I love Family Guy! It's based in my home state of RI. The places they mention on the show are real places. Like Barrington is a rich town. But the actors always pronounce Pawtucket wrong.

The first few seasons were terrible though, I can see why it got cancelled. Also, all that hype about Ted - it was just Family Guy with a bear, fcol! (still funny though - the deposit in the lounge had me in stitches)

[Scary Kitty]

I think I heard that on one of the gen threads. Something about how EatG was supposed to be more than one part - that's why it seemed so rushed - and they were going to stay on earth a while. Also that Ronon was going to stay dead because Jason only had a contract til the end of s5 and wanted to leave to do 'other projects'.

Sounds like it was probably more speculation, rather than any known facts about S6/Extinction. The bit about Atlantis sticking around a while does seem plausible-- the beginning of Extinction was supposed to show that Atlantis had been moved to the far side of the moon, which does seem to imply they had been there for a while.

Plausible. But its a bit of a stretch for TPTW to use that plot device so long afterwards.

Not really. Put it on a delayed timer and catch whoever "stole" Atlantis off guard when they think the coast is clear, so to speak.

That may have been why the numbers dropped off after its premiere (some SG fans tuning in, and then tuning out because the show was so 'different') but I don't think that's why it failed. IMO it failed because s1 was so.....bad (bad characterisations and bad storylines). S2 was a vast improvement. Anyone who tuned in from about maybe the last two (?) eps of s1 and then watched from that point onwards would have had a better viewing experience.

Regardless, the shows (SGU v SG-1 & SGA) aren't comparable. Liking one won't translate to liking the others, and I think it was probably a little arrogant of TPTW to assume that viewers would just follow them over.

...

It did get better (especially the characterisation) but if you didn't like it at all at that point, you made the right call by ditching it

I stuck around for the first six episodes of SGU, then bailed when I realized that I was bribing myself with episodes of another show I found more interesting (Defying Gravity) after I watched each episode of SGU. Didn't come back until the second half of SGU S2 in order to do timeline research for Atlantis Rising (since some of our early episodes would be taking place at the same time as events on SGU). I definitely agree with you that S2 seemed to achieve a better balance between character moments and storytelling/worldbuilding. (As opposed to S1, which (at least, those episodes I watched) felt more like 'fix the broken system of the week before everyone on the ship DIEZ' sort of thing.) I think one of their problems was that TPTW waited too long to start unfolding some of the season-spanning storyarcs; the discovery of why the Ancients sent out the Destiny and Rush's obsession with completing that mission was fascinating to me and I always thought it was a shame they waited until S2 to really kickstart it.

Since then I've watched a few minutes here and there, and got all woozy in the head from the shaking camera.

Yeah, the camera work also didn't endear me to SGU.

I think the idea was that it was insulting on a general level because they blamed spite for being powerful enough to kill the show. And the implication being that there's no way that the fans wouldn't have disliked the show enough to kill it if they weren't bitter about SGA.

That might be a little unfair I suppose because in the past they seemed to understand that not all fans of one show necessarily will love the other too (one of them said as much on a SGA commentary. The Return Part 2, I think), but they certainly did seem to expect their new show to succeed based on brand loyalty.

But even if someone did want to support the Stargate in general, no fan should be expected to be watching something they don't like in order to support a franchise they do.

I think If one wants to make a different show fine. Expect a different audience.

Now that all the dust has settled, and I occasionally see SGU mixed in with other Stargate tributes on youtube and so forth, I've been sometimes struck by how little I miss that show.

Which is to say, I suppose technically I do, but not very much.

Indeed. I found that attitude from TPTW to be very irritating. Expecting the audience to be loyal to the brand when the makers themselves aren't even being loyal to it made no sense to me. Classic Coke vs. New Coke, anyone?

a little something I whipped up...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...earlyakiss.jpg

*flails and zooms around the room squeeing happily*

Oh yeah. I listened to the commentary where Mallozzi thought it was just hilarious. Sorry, but that's not my Rodney who always respected and liked Elizabeth.

So much so that when he was trying to ascend or die, he wrote a 500-page book about her because he thought someone needed to stick up for her and all the good she did as leader of the expedition.

OMG, that was Alias. Started off so strong, but got so freaking convoluted.

But was just cracky enough that I stuck it out to the end for the lolz. And to see what crazy disguise(s) they'd put Jennifer Garner in that week. Never again, though.

I'm going to shock everyone and admit I've never seen any of the LOTR movies or read any of the books.

^ this. I don't know how I would have reacted to some of the s4 stuff had I not been on GW, but I suspect I would have given up on s4 because the early eps made no sense. If one needs to look 'outside' of the show in order to watch it, then they've made a boob somewhere

Well said.

[drewandian]

a little something I whipped up...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...earlyakiss.jpg

oh the feels!!!!!!

[gateraid]

Sounds like it was probably more speculation, rather than any known facts about S6/Extinction. The bit about Atlantis sticking around a while does seem plausible-- the beginning of Extinction was supposed to show that Atlantis had been moved to the far side of the moon, which does seem to imply they had been there for a while.

I would suggest that any of the 'known facts' that are in the public domain now have been distorted by the passage of time

Not really. Put it on a delayed timer and catch whoever "stole" Atlantis off guard when they think the coast is clear, so to speak.

It would have to have been *really* clear at that point, most of the population (of whichever planet they went to) would have been dead.

I stuck around for the first six episodes of SGU, then bailed when I realized that I was bribing myself with episodes of another show I found more interesting (Defying Gravity) after I watched each episode of SGU. Didn't come back until the second half of SGU S2 in order to do timeline research for Atlantis Rising (since some of our early episodes would be taking place at the same time as events on SGU). I definitely agree with you that S2 seemed to achieve a better balance between character moments and storytelling/worldbuilding. (As opposed to S1, which (at least, those episodes I watched) felt more like 'fix the broken system of the week before everyone on the ship DIEZ' sort of thing.) I think one of their problems was that TPTW waited too long to start unfolding some of the season-spanning storyarcs; the discovery of why the Ancients sent out the Destiny and Rush's obsession with completing that mission was fascinating to me and I always thought it was a shame they waited until S2 to really kickstart it.

Agreed. I understand they 'sped up' their five year plan during s2 as ratings fell. It would have been interesting to see what that plan actually was.

[Nolamom]

another angle...

[McBecklover]

Hello Sparkies!

a little something I whipped up...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...earlyakiss.jpg

another angle...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...e_Together.jpg

Oh these are great Nola!

[McBecklover]

[Sequoia Hope]

Here was I thinking I was the only one

Well, that makes the three of us. The music is amazing, though.

And Nolamom, that work of yours is breathtaking.

Interesting discussion about SG-1 and SGU. Unfortunately, I don't have anything I can really add, but it's nice to learn more about what was going on behind the scenes of those two shows and how they related to SGA. Like a couple of others commented, I wasn't attracted by the mythology of SG-1, which is why that show didn't appeal to me. From what I know, SGU also took on a completely darker tone, so while it was character-driven, I don't think that I would have enjoyed that show, either. But Atlantis was just... wow. Aside from a very diverse and very strong cast, I think that I was most impressed by the sense of adventure and wonder the city brought. The idea of uncovering the mysteries of the city and travelling off-world to meet new cultures was simply awe-inspiring, and there was a sense of comfort whenever off-world teams came back home to Atlantis at the end of the day. I like how Atlantis was home to the expedition.

Compared to SG-1, Atlantis doesn't really have a mythological background, so I also appreciated how everything about Atlantis was just... believable, you could say. I felt that everything in the show could happen in real life. It's a bit difficult to explain, but I can just imagine, in real life, that an expedition comprised of ordinary humans from Earth, be they scientists or military, travels to another galaxy to discover a lost technologically-advanced city. I say "ordinary humans" to emphasize that these were just normal people like us who just happened to place themselves in extraordinary circumstances. They didn't have any superpowers, only their own knowledge and wits that they used to help them survive. And that's also why the characters appealed to me, because the problems they encountered were so similar to those we deal with in our lives, and I've always felt that I could easily connect to and empathize with them.

[Raelis]

What pisses me off immensely is the fact that when the Stargate franchise is mentioned somewere in the press, it's SG-1 and SGU that are mentioned, and SGA gets ignored.

[Southern Red]

^ this. I don't know how I would have reacted to some of the s4 stuff had I not been on GW, but I suspect I would have given up on s4 because the early eps made no sense. If one needs to look 'outside' of the show in order to watch it, then they've made a boob somewhere

Me neither. Usually when someone leaves a show, I wonder what they did to get fired, if they are pregnant, or if it's some other reason. I would have thought that about Torri. I have friends who watched it but never went online. The husband in particular is a huge Sci Fi fan and they used to eat popcorn and have "SciFi friday" back in the day, She would email me and ask questions in S4-5 about what the hell was happening and tell me how mad her husband was. So, if that was a typical reaction, I'm thinking the casual fans weren't happy for the most part.

The first few seasons were terrible though, I can see why it got cancelled. Also, all that hype about Ted - it was just Family Guy with a bear, fcol! (still funny though - the deposit in the lounge had me in stitches)

I actually liked the first few seasons. Loved Brian and Stewie, but they just got too vulgar, even for Mr. SR and he can tolerate a lot. So, we stopped a few years ago. Same goes for South Park, which JF said recently is his favorite show. LOL

Oh yeah. I listened to the commentary where Mallozzi thought it was just hilarious. Sorry, but that's not my Rodney who always respected and liked Elizabeth.

Proving how shortsighted and clueless they were.

I've watched all the Vala episodes (just loved her) and a smattering of others.

Oh yeah, I forgot. We loved her too, especially Mr. SR, but he's had a crush on CB since the Farscape days.

OMG, that was Alias. Started off so strong, but got so freaking convoluted.

Lord, don't get me started on Alias. Mr. SR declared that if what's his name wasn't really dead, he was done. So, that's when we were done. LOL It was SR Jr. who lured us into Fringe. I dearly love Walter and Aspen Astro Astrid, but won't miss the show.

another angle...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...e_Together.jpg

You are killing us, you know. *drools*

What pisses me off immensely is the fact that when the Stargate franchise is mentioned somewere in the press, it's SG-1 and SGU that are mentioned, and SGA gets ignored.

It's the red-headed stepchild. And even when they mention it, it seems to be David Hewlett who gets all the attention. I love him, but he's not the only one on the show.

All you people who don't like LOTR are dead to me. Just sayin'. I've been a fan of Tolkien since high school, when along with my nerdy friends read the books and wrote "Frodo lives" on our notebooks to annoy and confuse the jocks. We've waited lo these many years for a good movie treatment, and now we are in fantasy nerd heaven. We never thought we'd have to wait until we qualified for the senior discount.