Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[nephtys59]

OT - I need to share this, guys, because I am in state of slight shock - my husband just had a car accident, and thank God he is okay, but our car is completely trashed.

Oh no! Thanks God, he's ok! *Hugs*

About the darkness in the last two seasons:
I like darkness in certain shows. It's very fitting in BSG and I absolutely love that show.

I like darkness too, if written in the right way. BSG is an example of "the right way". Babylon 5 is my number one as to dark situations and character growth. I like desperate situations, because they may bring out the best (or the worst) in every person.
In Star Trek Enterprise I *loved* Season 3 just because it was darker, but I hated the way they killed everything in Season 4, bringing the characters back to normal in a way that was too easy and stupid.
I think SGA had a good start in Season 4 for darkness, but everything was ruined by what happened next.
Only John was coherent (and I give credit to Joe Flanigan for this) and showed us how the events of Adrift/Lifeline changed his life forever.

One of the reasons I can't see SGU as part of the Stargate universe (pun not intended) is because of the darkness. Stargate isn't supposed to be that dark.

SciFi must have some darkness, otherwise it wouldn't be interesting.
I think Star Trek in general was a good mix of good moments, dark moments, comic moments, interesting stories, friendly aliens and enemy aliens.
Stargate SG1 and SGA were a good mix as well, but SGU is too much dark and not interesting.
I still have to finish Season 1 and I don't know if I 'll feel inclined to complete watching this season or not. Maybe just for Rush, because it's the only character I like. The rest is ... cannot find the words to describe how bad I feel about the rest of the cast.

[nephtys59]

We have this here in France. John and Elizabeth= vous/ Rodney and John= vous/ Teyla and John= vous.....Always "vous". I was frustrated at the beginning by this but I don't think it's very important if we want to value the relationship between people. I used "you" (voi) for my parents. It's strange but it's like this and we are very close. I use "you" (voi) with some of my coworkers (and bosses) and call them by their first name and we laugh very much but it's "you". It's not a sign of distance but just of respect.
Elizabeth is his boss so "you" can work for me. I can't explain it very clearly.

In Italy we had the "vous" only for John and Elizabeth. All the other characters used the personal form "tu" between them.
That's why I hated it, it was like they wanted to put some "distance" between Sheppard and Weir only.

[Probie]

In Italy we had the "vous" only for John and Elizabeth. All the other characters used the personal form "tu" between them.
That's why I hated it, it was like they wanted to put some "distance" between Sheppard and Weir only.

Oh ok. This is weird but you can think when we use "vous" it's also for someone very important for you.
Words are not important, action is (....this sentence is horrible lol). And you can also think that it's an american show. No "vous" or "tu". Everybody is in the same level.
By the way, thank you americans. It was very good to learn your language and not be worry by "vous" or "tu".lol

[Anuna]

Everyone! If you are in need of sparky fic recs, I just made a post, consisting of ten fic recs here. Those are some of mine FAVORITE fics. I stress the word 'some'. Listing all of them, or even top ten, would be nearly impossible.

[Fionnait]

In english, the fact someone calls you by your first name brings to a more personal level of relationship.
In italian, we still use "Voi" = You and "Tu" = Thou and that makes the difference between a formal and a friendly relationship with another person.
What I didn't like in the Italian dubbing was the fact that John and Elizabeth, even if they used their first name, used the "You" and not the "Thou" (except for GITM). I don't understand why the translators chose not to change to "Thou" when John started to call her Elizabeth and no more Dr. Weir.
I don't know if this happened also in France or Germany, also their languages have the You = Vous = Sie and the Thou = Tu = Du differences.
Maybe I made a little confusion trying to explain this, please forgive me

I think they you the "Sie"-Form (polite form) in German, but I'm not sure, I haven't watched it in German since I can't remember when.
Which is always quite ridiculous, they used the polite form on the X-files even when they already had a baby...

[Anuna]

We have the same in Croatian, "Vi" as the polite form, and "ti" as the more personal form. SGA was never shown on Croatian tv networks, and this never translated, but I can imagine John and Elizabeth using the more personal form.

[Probie]

I think they you the "Sie"-Form (polite form) in German, but I'm not sure, I haven't watched it in German since I can't remember when.
Which is always quite ridiculous, they used the polite form on the X-files even when they already had a baby...

Lol it's so true.

Rising on french tv. I leave you

EDIT/ Strange to hear french voices.

[Falcon Horus]

Falcon: Oh my......did you say "Jonas Brothers"?......

I told you not to look at me like that. Hey, they have some great songs.

[Probie]

I told you not to look at me like that. Hey, they have some great songs.

I'm not convinced.lol

Hide and Seek now. They are all so young and the hair is a disaster.

[Scary Kitty]

I hope you like it. It was definitely Sparky inspired because we always have good discussion about that scene. But I thought it would be fun to see how John would react when someone hits him with his exact words (At the moment I'm envisioning Elizabeth using them verbatim "It's better for the both of us"). -----> *slightly ebil*

That's so ebil it's good!

It won't be resolved in PM exactly, but it will establish them, because we need to have those lingering doubts for Quietus. But considering the two Elizabeths, the end result with Mayel and the whole Asuras reborn thing, you can bet John's gonna be a little messed up at this point. Poor John. We're really gonna hurt him this season.

*whump whump dance*

Heheheh... *joins in the whump whump dance*

OT same topic since two weeks.

Spoiler:

MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Bye France!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Hmm....sorry.....In two weeks I will be focus on Sparky. I swear.lol

*cackles*

As to your question about fics where we learn something about Elizabeth's past... hmm, that's something that really hasn't come up. Every fic seems to be dealing with pretty much the here and now of both Elizabeth and John.

Since you've brought that up, I think I'd like to try to get something on Elizabeth's pre-Stargate past into Season 6...

Everyone! If you are in need of sparky fic recs, I just made a post, consisting of ten fic recs here. Those are some of mine FAVORITE fics. I stress the word 'some'. Listing all of them, or even top ten, would be nearly impossible.

Impossible because there would probably be three-way ties for each of those ten slots.

[Falcon Horus]

I'm not convinced.lol

You should try listening to some songs on their 4th CD - Lines, Vines and Trying Times. Not at all like what they released in Europe some couple years ago, cause there I agree... not worth wasting space on my iPod for.

That song I took the lyrics from - even though from the Camp Rock soundtrack - totally rocks and when played in the morning makes the rest of the day awesome cause it makes sure I'll be in a very good mood.

Don't judge these guys on one CD or number... ...which I did and then was pleasantly surprised.

[Probie]

As to your question about fics where we learn something about Elizabeth's past... hmm, that's something that really hasn't come up. Every fic seems to be dealing with pretty much the here and now of both Elizabeth and John.

Since you've brought that up, I think I'd like to try to get something on Elizabeth's pre-Stargate past into Season 6...

I would love to see a story about her past. I hope you will do it for season 6.

You should try listening to some songs on their 4th CD - Lines, Vines and Trying Times. Not at all like what they released in Europe some couple years ago, cause there I agree... not worth wasting space on my iPod for.

That song I took the lyrics from - even though from the Camp Rock soundtrack - totally rocks and when played in the morning makes the rest of the day awesome cause it makes sure I'll be in a very good mood.

Don't judge these guys on one CD or number... ...which I did and then was pleasantly surprised.

I will try tonight but please don't tell me I have to listen Justin Bieber too.lol

[ddc]

As to your question about fics where we learn something about Elizabeth's past... hmm, that's something that really hasn't come up. Every fic seems to be dealing with pretty much the here and now of both Elizabeth and John.

Since you've brought that up, I think I'd like to try to get something on Elizabeth's pre-Stargate past into Season 6...

I remember reading a fic that had John & Elizabeth meeting when she was doing some negotiation in the Balkans and he flew her around. Not sure whether it was on FFNet of somewhere else.

You're welcome to use the little background I wrote that long fic I posted last year (Reclaiming Her Life). Not much but I did include some school friends for both of them and an acquaintance from Elizabeth's diplomatic days.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Screw the Angst Wednesday!

Wow, it's kinda quiet out there today...

I would love to see a story about her past. I hope you will do it for season 6.

With everything else we've got planned, I'm pretty sure it won't be a full story, probably just some details slid into a conversation or two.

I remember reading a fic that had John & Elizabeth meeting when she was doing some negotiation in the Balkans and he flew her around. Not sure whether it was on FFNet of somewhere else.

You're welcome to use the little background I wrote that long fic I posted last year (Reclaiming Her Life). Not much but I did include some school friends for both of them and an acquaintance from Elizabeth's diplomatic days.

Hmm, I think I vaguely remember that Balkans one... it might have been an AU, which is probably why I didn't think of it at first.

[Eri13]

Alright, opinions from the thread!

Since Primum Movens is our big two-parter, I've been trying to make it as solid a story as possible. Having now watched Season 5, I think some of what we brainstormed (located on our journal, look for the link in my sig) is a little too much for the story, so I'm simplifying it.

Since this is a big episode, I want the thread's approval on the major details. So here goes:

Spoiler:

The plotline will involve the Wraith (or rather, what the team thinks are the Wraith.). The Vanir, or Renegade Asgard, will have no involvement. When the story starts out, the Wraith have 'kidnapped' Franibeth and are trying to use her to find out where the Replicator "Primus" is, a weapon that is supposedly super powerful and capable of destroying all Wraith.

- The team will still think the replicators were unbonded in the Pegasus Coalition Episode.

- The story starts out with them getting contacted by Franibeth, who is prisoner on board a Wraith Hive ship. She informs Atlantis that the Wraith are trying to use her to find something called "The Primus" but that they are having difficulty accessing that information within her nanites because she isn't a true Asuran replicator but a 'copy' manipulated by Rodney. She has managed to escape her captors within the Hive Ship--long enough to send Atlantis a message and warn them-- but is likely to be recaptured soon.

- After a lengthy debate, Atlantis decides to send out a small party for rescue. Rodney and Teyla want to save Elizabeth because she's still alive and Elizabeth; John reluctantly agrees, though not wholly trusting Franibeth, but because the "Primus" might also help in the war with the Wraith. Plus, he's feeling a little reckless after what happened with Mayel.

- They land on the Hive and capture Franibeth, but they note that the rescue was relatively easy. They question her about how the Wraith found her and she mentions that they have not one, but two replicators captive--the second being the Replicator that McKay was toying with, and who escaped, in Reunion.

- McKay hacks into Franibeth's code and finds the location of the Primus. They journey to this location, discovering it looks 'Ancient' and find a stasis pod with a 'true' version of Elizabeth, who IS the Primus. As they're unearthing it the Wraith hive ship appears and starts firing on the Atlantis team; they have no choice but to wake Elizabeth from stasis, stun her, and take her back to Atlantis. They don't know how the Wraith found them, but we'll see it implied that Franibeth had something to do with it, unbeknownst to our team.

- On Atlantis, both the 'real' Elizabeth and Franibeth are confined. The group tries to figure out how this version of Elizabeth is the "Primus" and what that means. In the meanwhile, Elizabeth, whose memory only goes through her capture by Oberoth in Lifeline, is trying to cope with the Atlantis team distrusting her and the fact that two years have passed.

- In the meanwhile, the Hive Ship Franibeth was prisoner on appears over Atlantis and makes a seemingly foolish attempt to attack Atlantis. In the Melee, Franibeth escapes her prison and enters Elizabeth's cell, connecting to her through a mind probe. In Elizabeth's mind, we discover she is truly the original Elizabeth and that Franibeth--who has long been 'overriden' by Altus, the replicator from Reunion--needs the nanites within Elizabeth because they're the only ones remaining that have the original replicator 'base code' required to both reform the Collective and to attack the Wraith. (As both she and the replicator from Reunion were tampered with by Rodney). Franibeth was kept alive by Altus because he knew he could use her to manipulate the Atlanteans. She uses the mind probe to steal the base code, but Elizabeth demonstrates enough strength to prevent Franibeth from destroying her completely, though she does go into convulsions because of the strain on the nanites keeping her alive.

At the end of part I, Franibeth, with the stolen base code now downloaded into her system, steals a jumper (a hint that replicators can control Ancient technology) and makes her way to the Hive ship, which actually wasn't being controlled by the Wraith, but by Altus, who assimilated the Wraith crew and faked the entire scenario to make the Atlanteans think the Wraith were involved. With their original base code now downloaded, Franibeth and Altus head off to use their newly collected code to rebuild Asuras and reform the replicators.

In Part II, Atlantis is still reeling from Franibeth's betrayal and everyone, John in particular, is uncertain of exactly what role the 'real' Elizabeth played in all of this. They want to trust her, but no one truly knows if they can. This frustrates Elizabeth because she knows the danger they are in.

- As the group knows what Altus is planning, they know they have to make a preemptive strike, and quickly. They contact Earth to get their hands on the newly created PWARG, which is hooked up to the Daedalus (along with a smokin hyperdrive) which will put the Daedalus in Pegasus in a few days time.

- They contact the Pegasus Coalition to let them know what's up. Resources are offered (perhaps Travellers' ships as well) to help with the battle. This is one way the Coalition and Atlantis attempt to make peace following Mayel's betrayal of John (whether Mayel is in this episode or not I haven't decided--if it makes sense to see her, she will be).

- Thanks to some McKay dazzle, they are able to track Altus's Hive ship. In heading out, Elizabeth asks to be allowed to go with them. John is hesitant, but McKay and Woolsey (and Caldwell) all agree that she should be allowed to go as she's the only one who can get inside the Collective.

- When they arrive at the location where the Hive Ship is, they are shocked to find that Asuras II is mostly complete. A preemptive strike with the PWARG finds the planet shielded from a PWARG attack. In addition, Asuras begins an attack on the attacking ships. The only choice is to send a jumper down and disable Asuras's shield. Elizabeth wants to go and John refuses to allow her--this leads up to the argument in which she asks him to disable her nanites, because if she's that much of a threat she doesn't want to cause them any more pain by having her around if she's a danger. Her words, coupled with what he felt he owed her for his decisions in Adrift/Lifeline, convince him to allow her to go.

- They make their way onto Asuras II, getting past the defenses thanks to Elizabeth and her 'wireless' connection. While the city is intact, though, Altus has not been able to build up a huge number of replicators because reprogramming the base code has been tricky. Franibeth and a small army are sent to stop John and the rest.

- As John, Ronon and Teyla battle the replicator army near the shield generator's power room, Elizabeth realizes that Altus is close to reforming Oberoth and knows she's the only other entity that can connect to the Collective. She asks Rodney's permission to head into the City this time and tells him to activate her kill switch if he loses communication with her. He reluctantly agrees.

- Elizabeth makes her way to the Asuran Tower, where Altus is feverishly working to morph himself into Oberoth and make new replicators. She surprises him by making the connection with him, freezing the Collective, including the Replicator army and the drones being fired at the Daedalus. Altus has just managed to become Oberoth, and Elizabeth holds him at bay.

- At the replicator battle, Franibeth suddenly leaves, leaving her army to battle John and the others. John uses the opportunity to set the charges at the shield generator's power source, finding out in the meanwhile that Elizabeth has gone directly to confront Oberoth.

- Franibeth arrives and uses her abilities to connect to Elizabeth and surprise her enough to lose control of the Collective. It is enough time, however, for the shield generator to be destroyed by John's C4. As Team Sheppard makes their way back, Elizabeth fights for control of the Collective. The explosion disrupts Franibeth's control and she and Franibeth enter into a standoff for control of the Collective.

- John, in the meanwhile, finds out where Elizabeth's at. With the shield down, the Daedalus can hit the planet with the PWARG and destroy everything with Nanites in it--including Elizabeth. They cannot beam her up because, of course, her tracking beacon has been removed since Lifeline and they did not 'fit' her with another. John decides 'not again' and, following true to his 'leave no man behind' mantra, instructs Rodney to pilot the jumper away, and goes after Elizabeth. If he can find her, he'll instruct the Daedalus to beam them both up or he'll fly an Asuran jumper away.

- Elizabeth is starting to weaken with both Oberoth and Franibeth attacking her, but after a lengthy discussion, manages through talk to convince Franibeth that she's enough 'Elizabeth' to help her escape. With Franibeth's help, they overpower Oberoth and freeze him and the Collective long enough to prevent any power redistribution to the shield. Elizabeth accepts her fate as dying with the replicators.

- John, however, arrives just in time. Franibeth tells Elizabeth to go with him, promising she'll keep the Collective frozen long enough to allow the PWARG to be used. John reminds Elizabeth that he doesn't leave 'his people' behind, and because of his encouragement, and the trust he seems to be placing in Franibeth, she agrees. The Daedalus beams them up. True to her word, Franibeth keeps the Collective frozen long enough for the PWARG to be used, and the entire planet is unbonded.

- At the end, we have Elizabeth still under guard, on the balcony with John coming out to talk to her. Though he seems convinced she's the real thing, he can't find much to talk about. This hesitancy in him we see reflected in Elizabeth's quiet demeanor. Though they have her back, there are still many issues to be worked through and they both know it. He leaves her on the balcony with a sad face on both parts, which will lead us into Quietus.