Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Perfect. Then I say we add him to the main cast.

Paul will be thrilled!

[Probie]

I will be OT again sorry but I want to share the good news. My nephew had his operation today. He's fine and I had a little talk with him. Of course he's tired but he's fine.

End of my OT

[Eri13]

I will be OT again sorry but I want to share the good news. My nephew had his operation today. He's fine and I had a little talk with him. Of course he's tired but he's fine.

End of my OT

That's wonderful news! Congrats to your family and a swift recovery for your nephew. My prayers for all of them!

[Southern Red]

Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. I believe that life is in the choices we make. The point of this episode would be how Teyla's life could have been different, had she chosen different things for herself.

Spoiler:

The John/Teyla AU part I'd place in S1 of Teyla's flashbacks, because that is when the physical attraction, the way some episodes were writtng, pas played up. I S2 I think it's already defined that they are friends and team - mates and that's all. I believe that John's devotion to duty and difficulty with his own emotions would initially be a bigger problem than cultural differences which can be even interesting in the beginning. Athosians reaction could possibly be - you first joined them and now you paired off with one of them, this is not our people's way; would probably be painful for Teyla, but wouldn't go further. The expedition finding out, especially in the first year would probably have led to john transferring Teyla to another team. If that happened, then, in a way, she would have lost the team, which is like a mini family. Would John be a sufficient replacement? What if she wasn't there on crucial and important missions? How would she have felt if a mission went bad because she wasn't there? I'm wondering about those.

I don't want to do negative, but I do want her to doubt her decisions a little bit and wonder 'what if I chose this'. And then go through the cahnges and see if the happiness she finds is enough. Teyla is very zen IMO, she is one of those characters who know how to accept their fate, their role in grand scheme of things and lead a meaningful life, no matter what. It would be foolish to think she wouldn't be happy with John - but it's the kind of happiness I'm wondering about (and if I know anything about him, he'd do impossible to make her happy. cliche, but that's how John works - he'd rather be somewhere else than be there and hurting the person he cares about.) If we look at the canon, Teyla is a leader, teammate, friend, lover, mother. (I'd say she is satisfied with ahving multiple roles) Which of these she'd lose for John? And would that be a kind of life she prefers? Would John agree to that? There are many things to consider, and the whole thing is fascinating.

I apologize for bringing this up - I can't get the idea out of my head.

It has to be dealt with because the will they/won't they/maybe in S1 was canon. If they did get involved, in no way could she remain with the team. This would change the whole dynamic of her relationship with Ronon and Rodney and she might not like the place she ended up without them as family.

I see Teyla as being very happy in S5 and satisfied with her decisions. There is a bond with John, yes, but beyond knowing she is family and that he'd always come to rescue her I don't see it being deeper. I think we need to make a concerted effort to show that they would not have worked together as a couple because the attraction is more familial than man/woman.

Perfect. Then I say we add him to the main cast.

Agreed. We have quite the long cast.

[Scary Kitty]

I will be OT again sorry but I want to share the good news. My nephew had his operation today. He's fine and I had a little talk with him. Of course he's tired but he's fine.

End of my OT

That is great news! I'm glad to hear your nephew is doing well!

It has to be dealt with because the will they/won't they/maybe in S1 was canon. If they did get involved, in no way could she remain with the team. This would change the whole dynamic of her relationship with Ronon and Rodney and she might not like the place she ended up without them as family.

I see Teyla as being very happy in S5 and satisfied with her decisions. There is a bond with John, yes, but beyond knowing she is family and that he'd always come to rescue her I don't see it being deeper. I think we need to make a concerted effort to show that they would not have worked together as a couple because the attraction is more familial than man/woman.

Indeed. Alongside our main theme for this season of 'finding home,' the theme of family is one of the key components of home. We should see that idea of family, both within Team Shep, as well as the entire expedition, explored throughout this season.

Agreed. We have quite the long cast.

Gotta love ensembles.

[Southern Red]

I will be OT again sorry but I want to share the good news. My nephew had his operation today. He's fine and I had a little talk with him. Of course he's tired but he's fine.

End of my OT

Good news indeed.

[Eri13]

It has to be dealt with because the will they/won't they/maybe in S1 was canon. If they did get involved, in no way could she remain with the team. This would change the whole dynamic of her relationship with Ronon and Rodney and she might not like the place she ended up without them as family.

I see Teyla as being very happy in S5 and satisfied with her decisions. There is a bond with John, yes, but beyond knowing she is family and that he'd always come to rescue her I don't see it being deeper. I think we need to make a concerted effort to show that they would not have worked together as a couple because the attraction is more familial than man/woman.

Agreed. We have quite the long cast.

That is great news! I'm glad to hear your nephew is doing well!

Indeed. Alongside our main theme for this season of 'finding home,' the theme of family is one of the key components of home. We should see that idea of family, both within Team Shep, as well as the entire expedition, explored throughout this season.

Gotta love ensembles.

Hmmm...

Spoiler:

I agree that the familial emphasis is most important, but I do see a possibility that Teyla could have been happy romantically with John in one sense. They're both good people, and Teyla seems to me to be the kind of person who goes 'all in'. A little like Marianne Dashwood in Sense & Sensibility, she couldn't love with half a heart. If they'd started, she would have fought to make it work, and love him. And I just can't see John treating her badly. His failing would be in not being able to be fully devoted to her. Which I think she would understand, but it would hurt her, yet she would hang on, unlike Nancy. In the end it's not 'unable to love' so much as 'imperfect love'.

I feel the same with that as I would with Ronon/Teyla. I think they also could have been romantic, especially early on in S2. I think the possibility of a relationship was there early on, and probably should be another AU timeline. But Ronon is also different for her, enough so that his love, too, would be imperfect.

But the problem with both of them is they would not be the best case scenario. There would have been imperfections, whereas Kanaan is best case scenario. And maybe that is sort of the answer of what we're looking for in BOD--like maybe Teyla fears that she's not loving him wholly because she has doubts or 'what if' questions. By the end, she realizes that her love with Kanaan is as great as it might have been with anyone else and is actually deeper and stronger and truer for her because of how deeply connected they are in culture and understanding. Not just with Torren, but with everything. Her AU answers all our questions about Kanaan (that biggest one for both Teyla and the viewers being 'did she really love him or was he convenient because she accidentally got pregnant?')

And in having that love with Kanaan, she realizes everything she might have felt for the other boys no longer exists for her--that she has the love of John and Ronon as family and she is perfectly satisfied with that. And maybe that realization is what she gains from this AU to complete her happiness.

And answers our questions too!

[Falcon Horus]

1 - Joe Flanigan
2 - David Hewlett
3 - Rachel Luttrell
4 - Jason Momoa
5 - Jewel Staite
6 - Robert Picardo
7 - AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir.

Yes? No? Maybe?

*shuffles with the credits*

1 - Joe Flanigan
2 - Rachel Luttrell
3 - Jason Momoa
4 - David Hewlett
5 - Jewel Staite
6 - Robert Picardo

7 - AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir.

Paul McGillion only getting a Special Guest Star title when he appears?

And other guest actors like Nykl, Smith, Rankin... like it was done on the show, after the main credits at the beginning of the episode, but before the executive producers?

As a Lemming PA I have a duty to look after my charge after all...

[Eri13]

*shuffles with the credits*

1 - Joe Flanigan
2 - Rachel Luttrell
3 - Jason Momoa
4 - David Hewlett
5 - Jewel Staite
6 - Robert Picardo

7 - AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir.

Paul McGillion only getting a Special Guest Star title when he appears?

And other guest actors like Nykl, Smith, Rankin... like it was done on the show, after the main credits at the beginning of the episode, but before the executive producers?

As a Lemming PA I have a duty to look after my charge after all...

I think David may be too big a name to stick behind Rachel and Jason *ducks flying lemmings* I think he'd either have to get second billing or "the and" since he has so much more screen time than pretty much anyone else.

Of course, we could also make him be the 'with':

Joe Flanigan, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, Jewel Staite, Robert Picardo...

*pause* *glitzy special effects*

WITH David Hewlett

AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir...

Paul either way is fine with me. And of course, all recurrers will come in the title card credits.

[Erin87]

Good afternoon, Sparkies! Happy Lazy Sunday!

I'd also like to see an episode like this eventually. And yeah, it'd have to be in S7.


There was that kind of wistful 'I know what you mean' he said in response to Rodney complaining about how Elizabeth wasn't answering her phone in The Return Part 1.


Oh, you betcha.

Cannon fodder...

Perfect solution! After all, New Athos, like the rest of Pegasus, is still vulnerable to attack by the Wraith (or someone else), and it would be foolish to go anywhere without some way to defend oneself.

Eeee! Telling tales of their childhoods around the fire! Hey, maybe that could even be a part of the preparation for the ritual that the adult participants do the night before, or something...

I figured this was going to be set on New Athos, and yeah, they had a ground gate, so all they have to do is walk. Didn't someone suggest that our Athosian Wolfman pulls some of the crystals out of the DHD?

Yeah, that was part of my original plan.
And that was a very thorough copy and paste on the LJ. *whistles*

I will be OT again sorry but I want to share the good news. My nephew had his operation today. He's fine and I had a little talk with him. Of course he's tired but he's fine.

End of my OT

Glad to hear it!

I'm really loving all the deep ideas for 'Box of Dreams'. I'm really looking forward to that episode.

[Scary Kitty]

Hmmm...

Spoiler:

I agree that the familial emphasis is most important, but I do see a possibility that Teyla could have been happy romantically with John in one sense. They're both good people, and Teyla seems to me to be the kind of person who goes 'all in'. A little like Marianne Dashwood in Sense & Sensibility, she couldn't love with half a heart. If they'd started, she would have fought to make it work, and love him. And I just can't see John treating her badly. His failing would be in not being able to be fully devoted to her. Which I think she would understand, but it would hurt her, yet she would hang on, unlike Nancy. In the end it's not 'unable to love' so much as 'imperfect love'.

I feel the same with that as I would with Ronon/Teyla. I think they also could have been romantic, especially early on in S2. I think the possibility of a relationship was there early on, and probably should be another AU timeline. But Ronon is also different for her, enough so that his love, too, would be imperfect.

But the problem with both of them is they would not be the best case scenario. There would have been imperfections, whereas Kanaan is best case scenario. And maybe that is sort of the answer of what we're looking for in BOD--like maybe Teyla fears that she's not loving him wholly because she has doubts or 'what if' questions. By the end, she realizes that her love with Kanaan is as great as it might have been with anyone else and is actually deeper and stronger and truer for her because of how deeply connected they are in culture and understanding. Not just with Torren, but with everything. Her AU answers all our questions about Kanaan (that biggest one for both Teyla and the viewers being 'did she really love him or was he convenient because she accidentally got pregnant?')

And in having that love with Kanaan, she realizes everything she might have felt for the other boys no longer exists for her--that she has the love of John and Ronon as family and she is perfectly satisfied with that. And maybe that realization is what she gains from this AU to complete her happiness.

And answers our questions too!

I love this explanation of Teyla's search in BoD, especially with how it pertains to her feelings for Kanaan and the doubts she might have about the path she's on now. That totally makes sense to me!

Paul McGillion only getting a Special Guest Star title when he appears?

Again, it depends on how many episodes he's in. I think the minimum requirement to trigger a slot in the main credits is somewhere around ten (don't know the exact number). We'll have that with Torri, but we're also doing the seekrit special thing with returning her to the opening credits following Weir's official return.

And other guest actors like Nykl, Smith, Rankin... like it was done on the show, after the main credits at the beginning of the episode, but before the executive producers?

As a Lemming PA I have a duty to look after my charge after all...

Yup, just like that. And that's probably how we'll do Torri's credits in Box of Dreams and Primum Movens 1 & 2, perhaps with a 'Special Guest Star' (though the credit in Primum Movens 1 might be a single card at the beginning of the end credits for spoiler reasons, ala BAMSR).

I think David may be too big a name to stick behind Rachel and Jason *ducks flying lemmings* I think he'd either have to get second billing or "the and" since he has so much more screen time than pretty much anyone else.

Of course, we could also make him be the 'with':

Joe Flanigan, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, Jewel Staite, Robert Picardo...

*pause* *glitzy special effects*

WITH David Hewlett

AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir...

Paul either way is fine with me. And of course, all recurrers will come in the title card credits.

Give David the 'with' and Torri the 'and'? Perfect! *rubber stamps it*

[Erin87]

I think David may be too big a name to stick behind Rachel and Jason *ducks flying lemmings* I think he'd either have to get second billing or "the and" since he has so much more screen time than pretty much anyone else.

Of course, we could also make him be the 'with':

Joe Flanigan, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, Jewel Staite, Robert Picardo...

*pause* *glitzy special effects*

WITH David Hewlett

AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir...

Paul either way is fine with me. And of course, all recurrers will come in the title card credits.

I definitely like the really cool opening credits idea.

As for the order...
I like either giving David the second spot or doing the 'with' thing. They've had two people in that last spot before haven't they? Didn't Paul and David have it for S3?

[Falcon Horus]

... *ducks flying lemmings* ...

Umbrella's can do miracles when it's raining lemmings.

Of course, we could also make him be the 'with':

Joe Flanigan, Rachel Luttrell, Jason Momoa, Jewel Staite, Robert Picardo...

*pause* *glitzy special effects*

WITH David Hewlett

AND Torri Higginson as Dr. Elizabeth Weir...

Give David the 'with' and Torri the 'and'? Perfect! *rubber stamps it*

What SK says. DEAL!

[Scary Kitty]

I definitely like the really cool opening credits idea.

As for the order...
I like either giving David the second spot or doing the 'with' thing. They've had two people in that last spot before haven't they? Didn't Paul and David have it for S3?

You're right, they did do that with Paul and David for S2 and S3:

'with Paul McGillion as Dr. Carson Beckett'

'and David Hewlett as Dr. McKay'

They didn't put in McKay's first name, but they did put in Beckett's first name. Odd.

[Erin87]

You're right, they did do that with Paul and David for S2 and S3:

'with Paul McGillion as Dr. Carson Beckett'

'and David Hewlett as Dr. McKay'

They didn't put in McKay's first name, but they did put in Beckett's first name. Odd.

Huh. That is strange.