Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[nephtys59]

So, we got a mention in a random sci-fi article:

http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/7311

It's about 'true love' in sci-fi, this being the pertinent part to Sparky:

Spoiler:

I have to be amused because 1) I don't know how much of the 'left the series' part she really knows and 2) of course, we're not an official 'ship' by the show! But it just goes to our point that casual viewers picked up on it!

Yay!!! Sparky is Canon!!!

[Southern Red]

So, we got a mention in a random sci-fi article:

http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/7311

It's about 'true love' in sci-fi, this being the pertinent part to Sparky:

Spoiler:

I have to be amused because 1) I don't know how much of the 'left the series' part she really knows and 2) of course, we're not an official 'ship' by the show! But it just goes to our point that casual viewers picked up on it!

Love it. And she includes all the major pairings in SciFi. This is obviously a very observant and intelligent author. But I shudder to think about the emails she will probably get that correct her misperception. LOL

[Falcon Horus]

Both Metamorphesis and Full Circle are SG1 titles in season 6 (the Jonas-season - *snugglesquishes Jonas*)... Metamorphesis is about Nirrti (a Goa'uld for the unknowing) who's using a DNA-splicing machine to alter the genes of people on the planet she's hiding on. She also uses it on a SG-team, Carter and Jonas, after which she is pretty much laying herself at Jonas' feet for being so evolutionized. He'd make a a good king to her queen. For obvious reasons he denies that gift.

Full Circle is the one where Anubis destroys Abydos, and everybody there ascends. Daniel's making another one of is his appearances and goes up again Anubis (also a Goa'uld by the way).

Just thought you should know.

[Southern Red]

Both Metamorphesis and Full Circle are SG1 titles in season 6 (the Jonas-season - *snugglesquishes Jonas*)... Metamorphesis is about Nirrti (a Goa'uld for the unknowing) who's using a DNA-splicing machine to alter the genes of people on the planet she's hiding on. She also uses it on a SG-team, Carter and Jonas, after which she is pretty much laying herself at Jonas' feet for being so evolutionized. He'd make a a good king to her queen. For obvious reasons he denies that gift.

Full Circle is the one where Anubis destroys Abydos, and everybody there ascends. Daniel's making another one of is his appearances and goes up again Anubis (also a Goa'uld by the way).

Just thought you should know.

Crap. That's why we value your input. Somebody come up with some new ideas.

[Eri13]

I have a couple based on literature:

- Heart of Darkness (and the story is about a journey into 'darkness')
- Solitary

And I'd really really love to see "To Be or Not To Be" tied in here somehow, since the S4 Elizabeth episodes revolved around that soliloquy. The entire thing is below the cut, but here are some ideas pulled from the text:

- To Sleep No More
- What Dreams May Come
- Quietus
- The Undiscover'd country

Spoiler:

To be, or not to be : that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.--Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

EDIT: Hey, check out the definition of "Quietus". It fits pretty nice with the story, too:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quietus

[nephtys59]

Crap. That's why we value your input. Somebody come up with some new ideas.

Well, if nobody likes "Dead Stop" and "Breaking Point" (or BreakPoint) like I suggested before, I offer some "informatics" titles :
- I, Nanobot (or I, Nanite)
- Cold Reboot
- Critical Error
- Control-Alt-Delete
- TakeOver (or Nanite TakeOver)
I'm fond of the first one

[Falcon Horus]

Well, if nobody likes "Dead Stop" and "Breaking Point" (or BreakPoint) like I suggested before, I offer some "informatics" titles :
- I, Nanobot (or I, Nanite)
- Cold Reboot
- Critical Error
- Control-Alt-Delete
- TakeOver (or Nanite TakeOver)
I'm fond of the first one

[Southern Red]

I have a couple based on literature:

- Heart of Darkness (and the story is about a journey into 'darkness')
- Solitary

And I'd really really love to see "To Be or Not To Be" tied in here somehow, since the S4 Elizabeth episodes revolved around that soliloquy. The entire thing is below the cut, but here are some ideas pulled from the text:

- To Sleep No More
- What Dreams May Come
- Quietus
- The Undiscover'd country

Spoiler:

To be, or not to be : that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.--Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

EDIT: Hey, check out the definition of "Quietus". It fits pretty nice with the story, too:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/quietus

As I was reading through the soliloquy, I thought quietus would be perfect. That fits the best so far.

I've added these and the suggestions from nephtys to the list. Here's what we have so far:

Dead Stop
Breaking Point or Breakpoint
Out of the Shell
Mindscape
Impenetrable
Outreach

To Sleep No More
What Dreams May Come
Quietus
The Undiscover'd country

I, Nanobot (or I, Nanite)
Cold Reboot
Critical Error
Control-Alt-Delete
TakeOver (or Nanite TakeOver)

I removed the 2 that were used in SG-1.

[Scary Kitty]

So, we got a mention in a random sci-fi article:

http://www.airlockalpha.com/node/7311

It's about 'true love' in sci-fi, this being the pertinent part to Sparky:

Spoiler:

I have to be amused because 1) I don't know how much of the 'left the series' part she really knows and 2) of course, we're not an official 'ship' by the show! But it just goes to our point that casual viewers picked up on it!

That is a great article! It really goes to show how the 'casual viewers' (who are really the most sought-after part of the audience because they're the ones who swing the ratings) view of what happens on the show is very different from what the showrunners may be shooting for. Hah!

Love it. And she includes all the major pairings in SciFi. This is obviously a very observant and intelligent author. But I shudder to think about the emails she will probably get that correct her misperception. LOL

*snerks* Depends on which misperception it is.

As I was reading through the soliloquy, I thought quietus would be perfect. That fits the best so far.

I've added these and the suggestions from nephtys to the list. Here's what we have so far:

Dead Stop
Breaking Point or Breakpoint
Out of the Shell
Mindscape
Impenetrable
Outreach

To Sleep No More
What Dreams May Come
Quietus
The Undiscover'd country

I, Nanobot (or I, Nanite)
Cold Reboot
Critical Error
Control-Alt-Delete
TakeOver (or Nanite TakeOver)

I removed the 2 that were used in SG-1.

After reading the soliloquy, I also have to agree that Quietus makes the most sense, in terms of both fitting this particular episode and, as Eri mentioned, tying in with the S4 Elizabeth arc.

[Southern Red]

That is a great article! It really goes to show how the 'casual viewers' (who are really the most sought-after part of the audience because they're the ones who swing the ratings) view of what happens on the show is very different from what the showrunners may be shooting for. Hah!



*snerks* Depends on which misperception it is.



After reading the soliloquy, I also have to agree that Quietus makes the most sense, in terms of both fitting this particular episode and, as Eri mentioned, tying in with the S4 Elizabeth arc.

Sounds good. We now need everyone to weigh in on which title you prefer.

And yes, the casual observer would have to be sleeping through most of the show not to see the Sparky connection. But after she left and he grieved, now I feel they are open to a new ship for John. Unfortunately, with no movie that's going to be a problem. I doubt very many casual viewers will bother with the books.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Love it. And she includes all the major pairings in SciFi. This is obviously a very observant and intelligent author. But I shudder to think about the emails she will probably get that correct her misperception. LOL

Hah. You know funny story about that I was just thinking that most of the few sci-fi pairings that I actively support happen to be doomed romances. I was wondering if it was a coincidence or not. Sparky is one of only around 3 or 4. I didn't read the whole article because there are still shows on there that I want to see but the other two that I'd think of first actually were mentioned in that list.

Angel-Cordelia is one of my other favorites, and it actually ended not too dissimilar to John and Elizabeth.

The other is John and Aeryn and that one came preety close to being a tragic ending before they unexpectedly got a happy ending.

Her comment about Weir and Sheppard is really curious though. I have a feeling a lot of casual fans may have noticed because they were consistently around each other playing off the other. And people saw more than the occasional stab at subtle "intentional" romance in the script.

Or maybe I'm way off here because I seriously have a hard time believing that nobody editing the show didn't notice John and Elizabeth, and some of the stuff that was written in just seemed like it was the old "romance teasing" that often makes it's way into TV. It doesn't necessarily prove anything but, I didn't think it was a coincidence that Sheppard had "a big kiss, but not really a real kiss" with both of his females leads over the course the show.

[Scary Kitty]

Sounds good. We now need everyone to weigh in on which title you prefer.

And yes, the casual observer would have to be sleeping through most of the show not to see the Sparky connection. But after she left and he grieved, now I feel they are open to a new ship for John. Unfortunately, with no movie that's going to be a problem. I doubt very many casual viewers will bother with the books.

Indeed. The casual viewers probably don't know about the books (and if they did, they wouldn't go out of their way to read them), the canonists will never accept the books because the books don't come from the producers/showrunners, and the gen fans will never accept the books just on basic principles. So much for a new ship for John, it's the 'eternally star-crossed' Sparky all the way!

Hah. You know funny story about that I was just thinking that most of the few sci-fi pairings that I actively support happen to be doomed romances. I was wondering if it was a coincidence or not. Sparky is one of only around 3 or 4. I didn't read the whole article because there are still shows on there that I want to see but the other two that I'd think of first actually were mentioned in that list.

Angel-Cordelia is one of my other favorites, and it actually ended not too dissimilar to John and Elizabeth.

The other is John and Aeryn and that one came preety close to being a tragic ending before they unexpectedly got a happy ending.

Heh, that is funny!

I seem to be hit and miss with regards to how well my ships fare. Some, like Babylon 5's John and Delenn, were winners, while others like SGA's John and Elizabeth and

Spoiler:

24's Jack and Renee,

apparently were doomed.

Her comment about Weir and Sheppard is really curious though. I have a feeling a lot of casual fans may have noticed because they were consistently around each other playing off the other. And people saw more than the occasional stab at subtle "intentional" romance in the script.

Or maybe I'm way off here because I seriously have a hard time believing that nobody editing the show didn't notice John and Elizabeth, and some of the stuff that was written in just seemed like it was the old "romance teasing" that often makes it's way into TV. It doesn't necessarily prove I didn't think it was a coincidence that Sheppard had "a big kiss, but not really a real kiss" with both of his females leads over the course the show.

'Consistently.' That's it, in a nutshell. Out of all the potential ships presented to us, Sheppard/Weir really seemed to be the most consistent over a sustained period of time in terms of the mix of personal teasing and angst in the writing and the chemistry and body language conveyed in the actors' performances. So no, I don't think you're way off.

[SMB_BOOKS]

I like "Quietus". Sorry, that's all I got. It was one of those days......

[Southern Red]

Hah. You know funny story about that I was just thinking that most of the few sci-fi pairings that I actively support happen to be doomed romances. I was wondering if it was a coincidence or not. Sparky is one of only around 3 or 4. I didn't read the whole article because there are still shows on there that I want to see but the other two that I'd think of first actually were mentioned in that list.

Angel-Cordelia is one of my other favorites, and it actually ended not too dissimilar to John and Elizabeth.

The other is John and Aeryn and that one came preety close to being a tragic ending before they unexpectedly got a happy ending.

Her comment about Weir and Sheppard is really curious though. I have a feeling a lot of casual fans may have noticed because they were consistently around each other playing off the other. And people saw more than the occasional stab at subtle "intentional" romance in the script.

Or maybe I'm way off here because I seriously have a hard time believing that nobody editing the show didn't notice John and Elizabeth, and some of the stuff that was written in just seemed like it was the old "romance teasing" that often makes it's way into TV. It doesn't necessarily prove I didn't think it was a coincidence that Sheppard had "a big kiss, but not really a real kiss" with both of his females leads over the course the show.

I don't think you're way off at all. I have watched a lot of shows in my life, in fact most of the ones she mentioned in the article and I think she was dead on in her analysis. Taking all those other pairings into consideration, how could you look at Sparky and not think it fit the pattern? The lack of logic involved in that conclusion would be....well...illogical. I don't care what TPTB thought they were doing, the majority of the viewers saw a Sparky connection beyond the surface one. And that kind of thing cannot possibly be accidental. When I think of how it would have burned up the screen if it had been scripted, I get weak in the knees. LOL

I like "Quietus". Sorry, that's all I got. It was one of those days......

Quietus is in the lead with 3 votes. Everyone else needs to speak up.

[pkprd869]

Another vote for "Quietus." Sorry, no fairy tales tonight. I won't quote everybody, but I think star-crossed is a good description. The UST, body language, and rapport was all there and stayed there. C'mon, you don't agree to take on the consciousness of a stranger just him and his wife can say "bye" in "private" just to be a nice guy!