Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[astronomicalchick]

I got to see Seige III for the first time last night.

Here's a thing. The writers are definately putting in a S/W relationship of some description (which might just be friendship) there's no doubt. They may also be setting up a S/T relationship, but it seems to be awfy scrappy and bitty (which is a bit ominious I suppose given the way they dealt with S and J). *shrugs*. I like how they have Sheppard treat Weir, it's respectful, it's adult to adult, it's a very modern equal relationship. And that's not looking at it particulary with my ship goggles on. It's there, it's clear.

S/T on the other hand, I'm mystified with.

Spoiler:

There's hardly any scenes where they are together as far as I can make out,

and when he does speak to her it's hardly with the same respect and regard as he does with Weir. Somebody on LJ put it, he treats Teyla like she's a girl and at times disrespectfully (the thing I dislike about Sheppard's character most actually) - hardly like she's an equal. Now that might be the PTB's idea of romance (*bites her tongue fiercely*), and I suppose horses for courses about what you find romantic in your ship, but I know what I prefer.

[snoopoony]

S/T on the other hand, I'm mystified with.

Spoiler:

There's hardly any scenes where they are together as far as I can make out,

and when he does speak to her it's hardly with the same respect and regard as he does with Weir. Somebody on LJ put it, he treats Teyla like she's a girl and at times disrespectfully (the thing I dislike about Sheppard's character most actually) - hardly like she's an equal. Now that might be the PTB's idea of romance (*bites her tongue fiercely*), and I suppose horses for courses about what you find romantic in your ship, but I know what I prefer.

I have not seen season 2 though I've heard a lot about it.

Spoiler:

I've heard that S and T did not have a lot of scenes together but I think that it might have something to do with the appearance of Ronon's character. TPTB said before season 2 begins that the dynamic in the different relationships were going to change radically and that's what we saw. I'm not sure though if we can say that Sheppard treats Teyla like you said he does (don't know enough about season 2 to affirm that), it would be surprising. I liked Sheppard and Teyla's relation like it was in Suspicion or in The Gift : he trusted her, was willing to take care of her but more in an amical way. I loved that.
But I think that in season 2 Teyla has matured a lot, she is familiar with the people of Atlantis now so she does not need Sheppard's help as she needed before. That's maybe why they're not that close or why we don't see them much together.

[seetheship]

Snoop...my PC did not want to quote your post #43 as well.... but I just wanted to say that NO POST is ever TOO LONG Not in this thread anyway!

Like your perspective on John.
Yes!! John Sheppard is afraid , very afraid and should be with good reason because one Dr Elizabeth Weir is more than what he expected when he signed up for the Atlantis Expedition! Being a passionate man he realised that here`s also a passionate woman who shares with him a sense of adventure, has earned his trust and respect and well..mmm.. sorta gets him! Yeah! he`s thrown because that`s the last thing he expected ...falling for Elizabeth Weir. And I think the same as happened to Liz. John is the one person she can turn to in difficult times and one can already see that when she`s about to make important decisions for Atlantis. A woman in a powerful position like Eliz does not do that with anyone unless there`s deep trust and respect. See how they defend each other when their respective leadership roles are questioned in Siege 1 and Intruder. I know that TPTB has picked up a lot of flak over the years in SG 1 fandom with SJ ` ship. Perhaps with JE they`ll do a better job and I already like the fact that they giving us JE ship development in small increments. Like Bama said..."slow and simmering"...that is always good! Combined with the fact that they both passionate people in their own right , their relationship will have its fair share of "fieriness" at times. I`m strapped in for this wondrous journey to that discovery about each other and come Friday , Sparky! (TM) will get thrown a bone and here`s to 4th attempt in trying to post .....

[florence]

When I heard that they were going to show the spin off of Stargate I made some researches on the web and I took a look at what was said and I read that Teyla was originally Sheppard's love interest. Then I saw the episode and I thought that I didn't care that much if Sheppard and Teyla went together if the character of Teyla get more developpement from the writers. And then I saw Thirty Eight minutes and wondered a long time about that "I'd like to say something while I still can". And I found it strange but not getting more in the subject. And then I watched The Storm and The Eye and I was "oh my God, what's this idea of getting him with Teyla, he just wants Weir !!!" and as I kept seeing the show, I just understood that Sheppard and Weir were my ship !!

When I first got the chance to see Atlantis, I didn't know anything about that show, only that it was a spin off of SG1. I knew nothing about the story or the characters. I just told myself "It's a spin off of SG1. Let's give it a chance !"
At that time, I was completely into SJ ship and I thought I wouldn't be able to have another ship at the same time, at least another one in which I could get as involved as I was into SJ ship. How wrong I was !

So when I watched Rising, it was with an open mind. And I NEVER saw anything between Shep and Teyla, even in that scene in the cave. On the contrary, between Shep and Weir, I swear I saw sparks flying from the beginning. Well maybe not when they first met cause there were other sparks flying at that moment But when they first put foot on Atlantis, it was there... And I've never been disappointed since that moment

I love how their relationship is described. Unlike SJ relationship where it was like one step forward, 2 steps behind (and even more at some times ! ), Shep/Weir relationship is growing slowly but surely. IMO it feels like a stronger and stronger relationship of trust, shared responsabilities, friendship and maybe something more
As long as it goes on like this, I won't feel frustrated if we don't see some kind of 'physical' proof in the next seasons. I was a Mulder/Scully shipper so I know how to wait patiently for my ship, as long as we get some hints along the way...

[snoopoony]

You're all so great guys!!! You could be satisfied with so little. Well I could be too, but if I could choose, wouldn't mind a bit of physical contact (me.... depraved ? Not at all... what are you talking about ). But hey, don't misunderstand me, I'd continue watching that show even if nothing happened between them, even if they get someone else... I love Stargate Atlantis others characters and story too much to stop watching it !!!

But still... it's not that I lack patience but when I watched Stargate and X Files and other shows like that where they were evidences of love and nothing happened, I just wanted to throw my head against a wall. I l know the situations are sometimes complex but still.... when it's as clear as it was for those two pairs, don't understand why .... (well I do, nasty writers who wanted to create suspense.. ). Florence, I'll need your strength if S and W had to keep a platonic relation for years !!!!

[Bama]

You're all so great guys!!! You could be satisfied with so little. Well I could be too, but if I could choose, wouldn't mind a bit of physical contact (me.... depraved ? Not at all... what are you talking about ). But hey, don't misunderstand me, I'd continue watching that show even if nothing happened between them, even if they get someone else... I love Stargate Atlantis others characters and story too much to stop watching it !!!

But still... it's not that I lack patience but when I watched Stargate and X Files and other shows like that where they were evidences of love and nothing happened, I just wanted to throw my head against a wall. I l know the situations are sometimes complex but still.... when it's as clear as it was for those two pairs, don't understand why .... (well I do, nasty writers who wanted to create suspense.. ). Florence, I'll need your strength if S and W had to keep a platonic relation for years !!!!

Well, I most *certainly* can understand that. I was wall headbangin right along with you and screaming at the tv-"ARE YOU BLIND!?" ; ) But, there are some good signs with shep/weir. Shep seems to be an affectionate guy. He does those little arm touchies at times and I could so see him giving comfort huggies or encouragement huggies if the time is right. And, imo, a big moment was getting to see Elizabeth break down her 'no touch' barrier just for the one man who has gotten to her heart. I can't see her doing what she did in siege 3 for *anyone* else on atlantis. Can you? I do think they need to keep it slow though I'm not an end shipper by any means. I love to watch well-done adult relationships unfold onscreen slowly. You ask me, they should have taken more natural steps with sam/jack and let the characters slowly come to their own conclusions about each other. But, there is something to be said for ust. however, I think with atlantis being the type show it is, that it doesn't have to *rely* on ust only to get thru an ep so I do very much so hope they take a more natural and adult-like progression route.

And did you guys notice the anti-weir/shep thread? heh. guess I spoke too soon. looks like we've got a few people spooked. Well, not us really but the major league hotness that is elizabeth and john on the screen together...

-B ; )

[Bama]

I have not seen season 2 though I've heard a lot about it.

Spoiler:

I've heard that S and T did not have a lot of scenes together but I think that it might have something to do with the appearance of Ronon's character. TPTB said before season 2 begins that the dynamic in the different relationships were going to change radically and that's what we saw. I'm not sure though if we can say that Sheppard treats Teyla like you said he does (don't know enough about season 2 to affirm that), it would be surprising. I liked Sheppard and Teyla's relation like it was in Suspicion or in The Gift : he trusted her, was willing to take care of her but more in an amical way. I loved that.
But I think that in season 2 Teyla has matured a lot, she is familiar with the people of Atlantis now so she does not need Sheppard's help as she needed before. That's maybe why they're not that close or why we don't see them much together.

Agree. I loved the shep/tey relationship in 'the gift'. He was concerned about her but obviously only on a friendship/teammate level. Even with her going thru all the crap she was, he never had an intimate bedside convo or grabbed her hand and held on. I contrast that to the way he behaved with Elizabeth in danger in BIS or Storm/Eye or Hot Zone.

And I agree. I'm enjoying teyla much more this season. She does seem more in control of herself and determined to take serious steps to do what she can to make life better for her people. You have to appreciate her dedication to them. And those yummy zings with ronon and hot looks...let's just say there's a world of difference in her natural chemisty with him as compared to hers with john.

-B ; )

[Bama]

I got to see Seige III for the first time last night.

Here's a thing. The writers are definately putting in a S/W relationship of some description (which might just be friendship) there's no doubt. They may also be setting up a S/T relationship, but it seems to be awfy scrappy and bitty (which is a bit ominious I suppose given the way they dealt with S and J). *shrugs*. I like how they have Sheppard treat Weir, it's respectful, it's adult to adult, it's a very modern equal relationship. And that's not looking at it particulary with my ship goggles on. It's there, it's clear.

S/T on the other hand, I'm mystified with.

Spoiler:

There's hardly any scenes where they are together as far as I can make out,

and when he does speak to her it's hardly with the same respect and regard as he does with Weir. Somebody on LJ put it, he treats Teyla like she's a girl and at times disrespectfully (the thing I dislike about Sheppard's character most actually) - hardly like she's an equal. Now that might be the PTB's idea of romance (*bites her tongue fiercely*), and I suppose horses for courses about what you find romantic in your ship, but I know what I prefer.

Man, you guys are on a roll this morning. I like this post. Some good points here AC. As for the ship they're obviously installing...well, it has been more than obvious this year. However, there are hints and big ones that there will eventually be *more* develop than just friendship between shep/weir. First off, we see that huge level of trust you speak of being developed. Why take the time to develop that so much if it isn't going to be eventually taken to another level? I mean, Shep and Weir are 'friends' with other crewmates so why is TPTB going so hard out of their way to develop that deep abiding trust and respect between just shep and weir? They are laying a rock-solid foundation for more things later if you ask me. And then, people can say that the

Spoiler:

hug was just a hug but Elizabeth Weir doesn't TOUCH other people in Atlantis.

She doesn't obviously have her heart racing and her pulse jumping when others are in trouble the way she does with shep. Why let the camera 'linger' on their eye contact? Why make a point to show that they seek each other out first? And this may be SO 19th century of me, but I do live in the south where we still believe in romance so I'm going to say it anyway and just put on my flame resistant suit. Elizabeth and John are too attractive for the other not to have noticed them in a male/female way. A lot of people will yell, 'oh, but they can just be good FRIENDS!' or they whine about 'Why can't men and women just be good friends?' Folks, I'm quite certain that stats would bear me out on this. Women generally seek out women as 'just friends' and males generally do the same. When you have a male and female trying as hard as shep/weir are to 'look' for each other and 'understand' each other and 'trust' each other, then you're watching a male and female that are flat out INTERESTED in each other on more than a platonic level.

Flame away but that's the old-fashioned Bama view of it. ; )

-Bama

[Bama]

That was an excellent post Bama. I think that they will realize slowly how much they cared for each other before putting a name on that special caring. And the deniyal from John will appear on that level I think (I had a good night sleep so I can talk of John again) : as I said before, I think the main problem for John is his status but not as you may have talked on your post.

I'll just add that angle : I've been very surprised while rewatching some episodes by John's attitudes sometimes, especially when he is confronting to enemies. I mean, look at

Spoiler:

The Eye, he is completely pityless. He does not show any remorses when he thinks we're attacking what he thinks he is right. Most of the time, in any series, there's a reluctance from the hero to kill someone if he is not forced to. John wasn't forced to kill all the people he killed in The Eye. He could have simply attach them or knock them. Teyla didn't kill Sora even if she was trying to kill her. In a similar case what would John have done ? I remember also The Brotherhood : When at the end, Kolya tells John that it woud be better to kill him right now, John tells him that he won't kill him now but that if he tried again something like this, he will.

.
For me, John is not a typical soldier, he is tougher than most. And we can see that when you touches the ones he cares for, he became that pityless man (cf. The Eye). That attitude I think is shown when John does not think clearly anymore. Let me explain : Most of the time, Sheppard is a guy who thinks clearly, who thinks straight ("everything is straight in Sheppard's world McKay said in Underground), he does not need to think things for hours, he knows what to do, what to think immediately. But when he get confused, angry, he does not try to control his anger but let it come out.

Spoiler:

He was in control of himself in the Brotherhood, that's why he did not kill Kolya but in the Eye he was not in control of himself anymore and he killed all the people he could. Why that ?

Well I just think that when it comes to Weir, he does not know what he thinks that easily . If I remember correctly and if I'm not very mistaken, she's the only one who succeeds in disturbing him : first, because she is as strong headed as he is and I think she's the only one who can measure to him or surprise him (

Spoiler:

the hug in The Siege III

), then because he cares differently about her. In the Eye, his disproportionate attitude is a reaction to her 'death'; when she's in danger, he does not react calmly as he should or usually does (I may be wrong, I have not seen all the episodes).

I'm coming to my point : all this analysis to say that he'll realize surely at one point what she made him do, how he react to her safety and everything else, and I think he will be afraid of that power, because I'm quite sure that he is a man who likes to be in control and this woman makes him lost all his self control ! I'm not sure John really cares that much about the nature of their job. I'm sure he will use it as an excuse not to go further with her but inside, the only reason of his denyal would be the fear of his own feelings. (because by realizing how much he cares for her, he'll think that the more he gets involved with her, the more it would break his heart if something happened to her)

Sorry for the long post.

Snoopoony

Wow, ICAM! What a great 'John' post! As I said I do most certainly believe his 'denial' with is feelings for eliz. will be more personal of nature than hers are. I sort of agree with some others on here, I think eliz. may have acknowledged that she is attracted to him but I really, really think she believes she can control that attraction to him. Of course, we all know she's wrong, wrong wrong and it'll be fun watching her find that out! ; ) But boy, I look forward to more of john's backstory which hopefully will allow us to see just how he came to be the sort of man he is. There is a merciless edge to him it would appear. I think teyla caught it when she gave him that line about how she expected more from him than he could give. But then, I also agree with what someone wrote about elizabeth being the only person to really 'get him'. She does seem to understand him. Perhaps due to her superior people skills, she can see beneath the surface with him. John is the sort that cares deeply about his friends and loved ones. I think he'd take a bullet for any of them-including rodney. But the only one that gets under his skin, that makes him really challenge himself, that can pull the absolute best from him- is elizabeth. His feelings for her are on another level and it is going to be fun watching him figure that one out. ; )

-B

[Melyanna]

Well, I'd disagree on the whole matter of men and women being friends. My best friend is male, and there's really never been a sexual spark between us. We've been through horrible relationships with others and always ended up coming back to each other as friends. I'm not nearly as close with other girls as I am with this guy. And, well, yes, he is very attractive. But he's my best friend. I love him dearly, but I'm not in love with him.

That said, I think that's the kind of relationship we're seeing with Weir and McKay. With Sheppard and Weir, yes, a friendship of a sort has formed, but it's far more strained. And part of what I think is straining it is the sexual energy. I think Elizabeth is aware that her relationship with John is very different from her relationship with any of the other men on the base, but most of the time it's easy to excuse that. He's the closest to her professionally; their relationship has to be somewhat different. But at times she seems aware that there's something else at play. I think it was particularly evident at the end of Hot Zone, when she seemed to be hurting more personally than professionally. But at the moment it's easy enough to put all that back in the box once the moment has passed. Yes, I think others around them have noticed, but it'll probably take John figuring things out before we see anything overt.

[astronomicalchick]

And did you guys notice the anti-weir/shep thread? heh. guess I spoke too soon. looks like we've got a few people spooked. Well, not us really but the major league hotness that is elizabeth and john on the screen together...

-B ; )

Yep, we've finally arrived, our bright and shiny new Anti-thread.

That means we're serious!

[SallyLizzie]

There actually was a Sam/Jack hug at the beginning of Season Two...if you squint, they hug at the end in Seprent's Lair. But you're right, it doesn't have the same oomph as the Seige III

Spoiler:

hug - no lip licking for a start! You don't need binoculars to see it either.

I just hope we don't get too much too soon. /pessimism.

Infact there is a hug in Season 1 in Fire and Water, but again, nothing like S3.

Now i'm off home so i'll be back to post on topic later

I've just scrolled through quickly and man, you guys have been chatty.

[JxHarrison]

I might be...okay I am completely deluded (most of the time) but I swear to TPTB that I remember reading somewhere that in the character descriptions before Atlantis first premiered that Weir and Sheppard were going to have some...history.

Obviously, things change during the production of a show and there was a helluva lot of speculation about Atlantis before it aired but this is one piece of information that I think came from a reliable source.

I remember, quite clearly, reading a post that said that Sheppard used to be Weir's chickadee and that it would cause tensions in the city. Anyone else remember the tidbit?

There's been no canon confirmation though, so maybe it was just a red herring. Makes me think though - maybe Sheppard/Teyla wasn't what it appeared to be.

Gah!

I'm going to go and take some pills that will help me tell the difference between reality and fan fiction.

[JxHarrison]

Infact there is a hug in Season 1 in Fire and Water, but again, nothing like S3.

Ah! How could I forget?! *sigh*

[FoolishPleasure]

Yep, we've finally arrived, our bright and shiny new Anti-thread.

That means we're serious!

Ugh. I'm not even going to grace that thread with my presence. I took a peek today - in the last 10 posts, 2 different names belonged to the same person. I've had enough of 3, 4, 5 "people" ganging up on me in a thread, only to find out later "they" were all the same person trying to make their own "ship" look more popular.

Frankly, I'm with Shep's Socks:

I think this thread should be renamed the Anti-Shep/anyone thread. Despite the initial lunatic post, just because people are anti-Sheppard/Weir, it doesn't mean they're automatically pro-Sheyla (woof!).