Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

[ShadowMaat]

It seems kinda weird that a show which is so gay/bi friendly and which was so insistent on creating gay/bi scenes (more so last year) is now doing a 180 and trying to promote a straight relationship... especially after already setting up a great pairing between Jack and Ianto.

I just hope this doesn't mean we're heading toward an eventual threesome.

[Flyboy]

It seems kinda weird that a show which is so gay/bi friendly and which was so insistent on creating gay/bi scenes (more so last year) is now doing a 180 and trying to promote a straight relationship... especially after already setting up a great pairing between Jack and Ianto.

I just hope this doesn't mean we're heading toward an eventual threesome.

I think it's trying to recognise that in promiting bisexuality and homosexuality as facts of life, you can NOT forget that heterosexuality is an even larger part of life. And thus, whilst admirable to include characters who are gay or bi without that being their defining trait (as is an unfortunate trap many shows fall into) you HAVE to recognise that some, if not most of the characters will have to be straight, because such is the world.

[ShadowMaat]

Yeah, but that's why they have Gwen and Rhys. And Owen, too, unfortunately. Just keep up with the Tosh/Owen thing and you have your main character straight pair all lined up without making Gwen seem like even more of a scum than she already is.

[BruTak]

Just got #2 of the Torchwood magazine.

In the episode preview for ep #9 "Something Borrowed" we learn that

Spoiler:

Gwen and Rhys get married

(hence the title), and that

Spoiler:

Nerys Hughes

is playing Rhys's mum.

Why does this put me in mind of the first line from Nat King Cole's "Let's Face the Music and Dance"?

"There may be trouble ahead..."

[Reefgirl]

It seems kinda weird that a show which is so gay/bi friendly and which was so insistent on creating gay/bi scenes (more so last year) is now doing a 180 and trying to promote a straight relationship... especially after already setting up a great pairing between Jack and Ianto.

I just hope this doesn't mean we're heading toward an eventual threesome.

Unless they're trying to appease the American Market

[ShadowMaat]

I am so sick of the "American Market" being used as an excuse for anything crappy done in a British show. Maybe it's just TPTB themselves.

[Guest]

I doubt it's a play for the American market. Torchwood, with all its homoerotic and bisexual overtones, was a hit here before they started obviously shipping Jack and Gwen. The first season/series wasn't as overt as they are making it this time. Of course, Gwen was fascinated with Jack. Everyone is. But now they've pushed it past fascination and called it love. Don't like that. On Gwen's part. I think Jack loves his whole team.

And the whole Owen/Gwen thing... Well, I would forgive once or twice after the things they went through. A heated release based on common traumatic experience is not an unusual concept.

The whole beg forgivness then retcon Rhys thing turned my stomach. She didn't have the guts to admit what she'd done and deal with it like any other couple having problems. Or just keep her mouth, and her legs, shut and get on with her life with Rhys. Even her attempt was rather stupid. She gave him the retcon before she got her answer.

Nope, not sure why they insist on shipping Jack and Gwen. I'm perfectly content with Jack and Ianto and want to see more! Of course, I'm a serious slasher as evidenced by my writing preferences. *cackle*

[magickalmama]

It seems kinda weird that a show which is so gay/bi friendly and which was so insistent on creating gay/bi scenes (more so last year) is now doing a 180 and trying to promote a straight relationship... especially after already setting up a great pairing between Jack and Ianto.

I just hope this doesn't mean we're heading toward an eventual threesome.

But they haven't done a 180. Since series two began, they've heated up the relationship between Jack and Ianto, Gwen is now engaged to Rhys, and Gwen this series seems even more in love and committed to Rhys than in series one. Hence the whole 'I'd rather be retconned and quit, than retcon Rhys' bit. There has always been a bit of tension between Jack and Gwen. That doesn't mean they're going to dump their respective partners and have sex on the invisible lift.

Episode Nine

Spoiler:

is the wedding episode (Something Borrowed). It's supposed to be a comedic episode with a dark undertone. Kai Owen says there is a wedding, but teased there wouldn't necessarily be a marriage. But, JB says nothing happens this series between Jack and Gwen and EM says that Gwen is faithful to Rhys this series.

As for a threesome, I have no problem with that. I have no problem believing that Jack can love both Ianto and Gwen at the same time. I'm not convinced it would work for either Ianto or Gwen, however. And, before someone gets ticked, I also believe that Jack is capable of monogamy under the right circumstances. For all of Jack's omnisexuality, we haven't been shown much about how he handles his love life. Innuendo, flirting and quips - yes. Long term relationships (and really, even short term relationships) - no. Even his relationship with Estelle was only a matter of, at most, a few years.

[ShadowMaat]

My only issue with the threesome is still that Gwen is supposed to be in a committed relationship and would be having sex with two guys who are not Rhys.

Now, if it was a threesome with Jack, Gwen, and Rhys... I dunno, my mind kinda boggles at the thought, but I suppose I wouldn't have any huge objections other than maybe feeling sorry for poor Ianto.

[Guest]

Soooo... A foursome? *cackle* *snort*

[Willow'sCat]

People seem hell bent on seeing this ship thing, yet for the life of me I can't see it for anything more then the one side Gwen!Crush on Jack that it so is... Gwen is the "Rose/Martha" of Torchwood. End of story.

Jack is a big old flirt, who probably thinks monogamy is a nice kind of um...er...wood. I would find it odd if Jack stopped flirting and kissing peeps, men hopefully but peeps of any gender or persuasion is fine.

Honestly I cannot see Gwen/Jack outside of the fanfics (even if Russell wants to go there)... just like I can't see Rose/The Doctor or Martha/The Doctor. Each to their own and all but the canon so far in series two is Ianto/Jack and Gwen/boring bf.

For the record I hate Martha because she is Martha. I liked Rose because she reminded me of ACE, and I liked Donna because it seemed to piss others off that I did. lol

[Elizabeth Bartlett]

People seem hell bent on seeing this ship thing, yet for the life of me I can't see it for anything more then the one side Gwen!Crush on Jack that it so is... Gwen is the "Rose/Martha" of Torchwood. End of story.

Jack is a big old flirt, who probably thinks monogamy is a nice kind of um...er...wood. I would find it odd if Jack stopped flirting and kissing peeps, men hopefully but peeps of any gender or persuasion is fine.

Honestly I cannot see Gwen/Jack outside of the fanfics (even if Russell wants to go there)... just like I can't see Rose/The Doctor or Martha/The Doctor. Each to their own and all but the canon so far in series two is Ianto/Jack and Gwen/boring bf.

my thoughts on the subject exactly.


Watched the showing of 'Adam' on BBCA last night and

Spoiler:

it was nice to see what the team would've been like if they had a complete overhaul of their personalities and that Owen got a feel for what Tosh has been going through these last couple of episodes (when he could remember it). I also felt sorry for Rhys when Gwen couldn't remember him. If he was any more loyal to her he'd be Lab Retriever.

Or as my friend put it if Rhys was real he'd be one hell of a catch; "He does dishes! He tries! He buys you ice cream! He doesn’t wear pants! I want a relationship like that! Where do I buy one?"

[Madeleine]

Odd one, this. They seem to have found a huge load of ideas and elements - Owen the living dead, Owen the king of weevils, creepy little tarot girl, Death, Buffy-esque quasi-religious legends, the second gauntlet, Martha still being there - and bunged them all in half cooked. The result is a story that flits from one place to the next with hardly any time to take things in, let alone give them attention or savour them.

It's got lots of good stuff but it doesn't hang together and it doesn't really satisfy.

Especially with the weevil fight club story last year, more could've been made of the weevil element: why would they revere Owen just because he was becoming a conduit for Death? Less food for them, surely so maybe there's more to weevildom than we know... but what?

I hope that the slapdash approach to the bits and pieces of the story is so that when the rest of the story is told (with deeper examination of issues raised) we've had our appetites whetted; but I'm suspecting there may not be more to the story. (I haven't got BBC3 today so I don't know if the follow-up ep... followed stuff up )

No one should EVER have a disembodied hand come alive if they are not intending to make a comic scene (and tread carefully even then.) It looks naff-but-witty in a really good comic scene. It just looks naff in anything else.

I've been more critical than I had expected to be. I really did like DMW, I just felt that, more than any other ep this year, it had potential to be much more than it was, so I'm being harder on it.



Unfortunate coincidence alert: Anyone here watch That Mitchell & Webb Look? Anyone see the camerawork where Owen went out on the town (camera fixed on Owen from below, close-up, while the background bumps along as Owen walks/runs) and think "Digby Chicken-Caesar!"...?

[Pitry]

a Day in the Death (this whol airing thing is madness, three episodes aired simoulatnouosly to differnet people!)

Spoiler:

Damn beautiful this one. I'm still unhappy that it seems they want to keep Owen as a Zombie rather than cure him - and after this last episode, he damn well deserves it!
People on other television shows, take heed - now that's called character development.

Needless to say, loevd it to bits.
Bu I'm still waiting for that much bneeded DEM that'll turn Owen alive again. *hgus Owen...*

[AvatarIII]

Spoiler:

it's a shame martha is gone now, she was 10 times better in TW than she ever was in DW