Tempus (401)

[tagger]

Hi everyone!

Haven't read the comments yet as didn't want my comments influenced. =)

Loved Tempus. What a powerful premiere! Team Sanctuary is so talented - well written story, great characterizations, fantastic acting by all, set dec and costumes unbelievably beautiful, VFX great, whole cast and crew rock!

Loved the way AT played the different timeline Helens - great job - could see the joy/ innocence in Victorian Helen, and the anger in unhinged future Helen. Saw the symbolism in the costumes - dark and light. What was the tipping point in Helen's character? She wasn't this unhinged at the end of last season... what was the proverbial last straw?

Hated to see younger Helen abused/controlled by Druitt and can't believe older Helen still lets Druitt around.

I am completely confused by the timeline stuff. Are there 2 Helens until 113 years from this episode, but then events repeat and there are 3 Helens, then 4, to infinity? All eventually travelling a very worn out 113 year line of time? I gotta be missing something, and my measly brain is not cooperating in helping me figure it out. Also, if I was Helen sitting around for 113 years, I might not be as quick to judge Adam Worths' drive to save his daughter. 113 years of thinking about my daughters' death and I'd be pretty tempted to alter Ashleys' timeline. Helen will presumably have to live through her daughters' death again. Horrid.

From a purist standpoint, the future has already been altered to an unknown degree - it was altered the instant time travel occurred, right? Let alone the multitude of effects from Helen beating up John, speaking with children, shooting, interacting with Watson, etc... Butterfly effect - molecule oscillating here makes a hurricane there...? Are multiple time lines scattering out from when Helen's two timelines crashed into each other? Then part of me agrees with Worth in saying how do we know future Helen's timeline is the best?

Speaking of Worth, Ian Tracey is such a great actor - the scenes with Worth and Helen (future or past) were all riveting. Men's club scene was wonderfully done.

Past Helen does not have a gun bum.
(hehe loved that future Helen took past Helens' gun, then kicked Johns' okole later.)

Future Helen kicks arse, masters a number of weapons, and EVEN fits into the same clothes she wore 113 years ago. Crud.

[Skydiver]

entrophic cascade failure had to do with two people from separate universes in one, not time lines.

as to the timeline, helen A was born, lived, went to praxis, went back in time, stopped adam, went to seclusion
meanwhile she ran into helen B in the past, who lived, went to praxis, went back in time, stopped adam, went to seclusion

and we have an endless loop where from 1898 to 2010 and Praxis, there are two helens on teh planet, one as helen, another as whomever, then there is only one to live out the rest of her life from 2010 forward

[Steff]

entrophic cascade failure had to do with two people from separate universes in one, not time lines.

as to the timeline, helen A was born, lived, went to praxis, went back in time, stopped adam, went to seclusion
meanwhile she ran into helen B in the past, who lived, went to praxis, went back in time, stopped adam, went to seclusion

and we have an endless loop where from 1898 to 2010 and Praxis, there are two helens on teh planet, one as helen, another as whomever, then there is only one to live out the rest of her life from 2010 forward

Why doesn't she just get to the cave earlier and kill Adam before he goes back to the past. He would be dead and then would be just one helen. Yeap.... problem solved.

[Dinoman]

Why doesn't she just get to the cave earlier and kill Adam before he goes back to the past. He would be dead and then would be just one helen. Yeap.... problem solved.

Then there would be no Season 4 and no Tempus!!

[Steff]

Then there would be no Season 4 and no Tempus!!

Hum?..... You are right. *Cancel Plan*

[majorsal]

Why doesn't she just get to the cave earlier and kill Adam before he goes back to the past. He would be dead and then would be just one helen. Yeap.... problem solved.

yep, problem solved for sure! helen should have *you* as her proti... prota... her second in command

[Steff]

yep, problem solved for sure! helen should have *you* as her proti... prota... her second in command

I would be her "number one" and she would be my "Captain Picard"

[fems]

I love that Magnus wouldn't let him toast the iPhone. Wonder if she wanted to see her pictures one last time?

She was the one who eventually tossed it into the fire, he wanted to hold on to it, Like Kaylyne said:

I thought she did toss it. He was hesitant to put it in the fire as he was still in awe looking at it and she said "don't even think about it" - meaning don't think about keeping it. Didn't she grab it from him & toss it in the fire herself?

Funny how Watson is so mesmerized by her smartphone in 1898, but still reverts to telegrams in 2009 for communication. Poor guy must be disillusioned

Entropic cascade failure is a Stargate construct to tell a story. It doesn't exist here. No problem!

Yep, like Skydiver said:

entrophic cascade failure had to do with two people from separate universes in one, not time lines.

Just think of Continuum where two Daniels, the one from the original timeline and the one from the altered timeline could both live in the same time.

Future Helen kicks arse, masters a number of weapons, and EVEN fits into the same clothes she wore 113 years ago. Crud.

Yeah, not a lot of people can say that. Most can't even with into clothes from 20 years ago, especially after having had a baby What we've seen from the trailers means she'll also still fit her future/present clothes, so she has basically been able to wear the same size for over 230 years!

Why doesn't she just get to the cave earlier and kill Adam before he goes back to the past. He would be dead and then would be just one helen. Yeap.... problem solved.

No, she can't. If all goes as it should, PastHelen will try to track him down and is probably in/around Praxis too. We don't know exactly when Adam starts setting up shop there with his time travel device so FutureHelen would have to be there for quite some time to anticipate his arrival, since she wasn't able to shoot him once the experiment had started. Not to mention that if either of the Helens manage to kill him, there would still be two Helens in the present, meaning FutureHelen can't take back her (rightful?) place as head of the Sanctuaries with PastHelen there.

[Mandysg1]

Like Steff said if Helen kills Adam before he goes back to the past, there would not be any time travel, hence no 2 Helen's, and true problem solved.

[Rocky89]

After finally seeing the episode in peace, I must say, I was very impressed. The episode had everything, a good story, action, mystery and it was a great Helen episode, and Amanda did a great job. I loved Helen's interactions with Watson, and I notcied that the picture of her on one of her cards was one of Amanda's S3 promo pics. I liked seeing Watson examine Helen's things from the future, he look so fascinated by them, and I also liked that he figured out that Helen was from the future so fast.

The scene with PastHelen almost catching FutureHelen in her room was so cool, and PastHelen's hair reminded of Sam Carter. Even though we only got 2 scenes with PastHelen/FutureHelen with John, I thought they were very well done, and the fight with them really showed how tough Helen is, and also showed John that she's not a pushover. The Spring heeled Jack story was OK, and it gave fans something to talk about on twitter. Oh, and of course, the Helen/Adam story was done well, and I thought that in the end, his daughter wouldn't live, and it'd be Adam, and not Helen to kill her. When I saw Helen kill him, I was like "FIANLLY".

Overall, it was a great episode, strong and smart, and it'll be interesting to see how our Helen is when she gets back to her present, and how 113 of "vacation" has changed her. Season 4 is off to a good start.

Oh, and as a tribute to the episode and Amanda's acting, I made this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXX9tkhH6qU

[Julian]

Like Steff said if Helen kills Adam before he goes back to the past, there would not be any time travel, hence no 2 Helen's, and true problem solved.

But there WOULD be two Helens.

FutureHelen (our Helen) would stop PastHelen from going back to 1898, meaning there would be two Helens in the timeline still, and nothing to rectify that.

[Steff]

But there WOULD be two Helens.

FutureHelen (our Helen) would stop PastHelen from going back to 1898, meaning there would be two Helens in the timeline still, and nothing to rectify that.

If FutureHelen didn't vanish into thin air these 2 would be the last of the repeating Helens. It would stop the loop.

[KayLyne]

to confuse myself even further - if Present-Helen carried out her original plan of suicide after Imogene and present-Adam were killed, that would mean we'd never have a Helen Magnus anytime after this episode, because she'd always be going back in the time loop. ... right?

[Steff]

to confuse myself even further - if Present-Helen carried out her original plan of suicide after Imogene and present-Adam were killed, that would mean we'd never have a Helen Magnus anytime after this episode, because she'd always be going back in the time loop. ... right?

Yeap, but every time-loop Helen would have the option of suicide or not.

[NumberSix]

Wow. Great episode and gives us a LOT to think about and wonder what else is coming up in S4. Lots of great discussion in this thread and I've been trying to catch up but I wanted to rewatch the ep first and now it's 10 pages already!!! arrrgh!

Feast of the Muse: I bet he'll do something else nuts. Even though Helen had nothing to do with Imogene's death, did you see that 1898 Adam still blamed it on her? She wasn't there in time. Seriously! He's got it out for her no matter what.

Makes me wonder if now he'll go back in time again to try to somehow stop the bricks (I know they called them something else but can't remember the word) from falling on her.

Mackandal: So John was Jack, but Jack was also Jack, but not the Jack that killed Jerry or the Jack that save James who is known as John and finds Jack, not the James who is Jimmy.

I'm totally confused now.

Steff: Helen to John: "And now Jealousy? For whom?"

Wow, I just caught that line.

Yes, at least three of The Five seem to have woven a very tangled web.

Evenstar: I also thought Ian Tracey did a great job with the two Worths, one more confident and driven, but still gentle with Imogene, and the past version that starts rather gentle and heads towards the hardness the future one has because of her death.

It's a testament to Ian's acting skill and the writing of this episode. He's a madman one minute, but then we also see him as a father who very clearly loves and will do anything to save his daughter. I can actually feel some empathy for his character that I didn't before, when I saw him look at Imogene and say it was all worth it.

lastrequest: Maybe she travels the world setting up the different sanctuaries?? Or maybe she makes a lot of contacts for future use? Maybe she sends the odd anonymous tip off to herself

?

She just might. But then again she seems dead set against altering history in any way so she might be afraid that even sending a tip to herself would somehow change something.

RealmofX: Actually it's not, though it will look like an endless loop if you only look at the period 1898 to 2011. If you look at the longer time line you'll see see Helen born in 1850 (I think) and live through to 2011 then jumpback in time for 1 loop then proceed to live past 2011. There's only one Helen but due to time travelling there are two instances of her for a period.

This is the part that gives me a headache. Present Helen travels to the past and can't get back, so from the revised 1898 to 2011 there are 2 Helens. So when the altered history Helen gets to 2011 does she go back in time too? Or maybe she won't have to depending on what Adam does? How do we not end up with 2 Helens after 2011? I think I need to reread comments and think some more.