Tempus (401)

[Kilgharrah]

That doesn't really work. You're counting as if she was born with longevity, which she wasn't.

She was injected with the source blood at age 38 (I believe she was born in 1850, right? And then source blood in 1888?) So from 1888 to 2011 she's only aged, at most, a few years. Say four or five. (They do try to make her appear a little younger in flashbacks to the Oxford days, I think, using makeup and lighting, but it's definitely not a huge difference. I would say 2011 Helen looks early-forties-ish.)

If we say that, physically, 2011 Helen has aged about four years in the past 123, then in the 113 years she spends re-living time (1898-2011) she'll only age about the same amount, actually a bit less. Another four years older at most, which would take her to mid-forties as opposed to early-forties. So not really a big difference in appearance at all!

Both Helen and Gregory had longetivity when injected with the source blood, which means it's something genetic. The source blood only activated it. They had a trace of longetivity which means she still was an abnormal in some way. She still wasn't aging in the normal way.

[Altariel]

If she really was already 38 or maybe 37 then she aged in 123 years maybe 3 or 4 years! 2011 Helen looks like she was 40-43. (I think she even looks younger, maybe 30, but I think Helen is supposed to look like she is 40, is that right, I think Amanda looks way younger than she is.)

You really made a point, if the event with source blood would have been in 1880 they would, when the ripper killings began already have been married. So it is save to assume that she was 38 when she began slowly to age and until 2011 she aged 4 years. So the Helen who traveled back would age maybe three years in 113 years when she aged 4 in 123. Does that make sense? OK I saw lillypilly just said the same but two are better than one.

Huh, Gregory was too injected with the source blood? Did I miss something again? :-)

[lillypilly]

The Praxians gave Gregory and Adam their longevity, right? (Lol, they just give the stuff away like candy, apparently, no big deal!)

I'm not sure what you mean, PrometheOSS -- where has it ever been said that Helen was anything other than a normal human before the source blood? Helen was 38 in 1888, and looked it. The only one of the Five who had a genetic predisposition that was activated by the source blood was Nikola, as far as I know.

[kes]

It was played by Fraser Aitcheson.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1568712/
Got that info from: http://www.tv.com/shows/sanctuary/tempus-1400102/

No. IMDB is wrong. He's one of the refugees from Hollow Earth.

[Kilgharrah]

The Praxians gave Gregory and Adam their longevity, right? (Lol, they just give the stuff away like candy, apparently, no big deal!)

I'm not sure what you mean, PrometheOSS -- where has it ever been said that Helen was anything other than a normal human before the source blood? Helen was 38 in 1888, and looked it. The only one of the Five who had a genetic predisposition that was activated by the source blood was Nikola, as far as I know.

They all had genetic predisposition. Why else would each one get a unique ability?
Gregory and Maguns had a longetivity genetic predisposition. Think about the time when Gregory left the sanctuary for the first time. He was supposed to be long dead by then. By then, he hadn't been to Praxis yet. That means he already had it.

No. IMDB is wrong. He's one of the refugees from Hollow Earth.

I didn't get the info from IMDB. I got it from TV.com I just posted the link to his IMDB page, but I got the info from TV.com which is the second link.
Maybe he played both.

[Inquisitor]

They all had genetic predisposition. Why else would each one get a unique ability?
Gregory and Maguns had a longetivity genetic predisposition. Think about the time when Gregory left the sanctuary for the first time. He was supposed to be long dead by then. By then, he hadn't been to Praxis yet. That means he already had it.

Gregory was frozen by the Cabal.

[Kilgharrah]

Gregory was frozen by the Cabal.

That was just a specualtion, but this has been proven invalid later.

[kes]

They all had genetic predisposition. Why else would each one get a unique ability?
Gregory and Maguns had a longetivity genetic predisposition. Think about the time when Gregory left the sanctuary for the first time. He was supposed to be long dead by then. By then, he hadn't been to Praxis yet. That means he already had it.

Gregory's timeline is also a mess lol but they never said he took the blood. So untill they do is longevity is Praxian, not blood, related.

Worth is still alive because he was killed and put in stasis in Praxis. Will gives us a timelive in Pax Romana if I'm not mistaken.

I didn't get the info from IMDB. I got it from TV.com I just posted the link to his IMDB page, but I got the info from TV.com which is the second link.
Maybe he played both.

Ah ok, but I dont think it was him. Face is too skinny even with make up.

[Kilgharrah]

Gregory's timeline is also a mess lol but they never said he took the blood. So untill they do is longevity is Praxian, not blood, related.

They are doing this intentionally, BTW.
Maybe there's keeping it for a huge event later. Who knows!!!

[kes]

They are doing this intentionally, BTW.
Maybe there's keeping it for a huge event later. Who knows!!!

Could be.

[fems]

Gonna have to disagree with you on this one, fems. I very much want to see how AT plays a pregnant Helen (I wanna see how much the claws come out!) but I'm pretty sure this wasn't it. I don't know why, but my instincts all tell me she got pregnant about the time John started with the Ripper killings. I'd like to think she had more sense than to be intimate with him once she realized what he was capable of, and I don't want to consider any alternate theories on that (like her not being willing). Pretty sure that she put Ashley in cold storage as soon as possible after she found out, so I don't think we'll ever see her showing back in the Victorian era. (But of course, I am not writing the show!)

Also, the Helen we saw was 48. I had to do the math because she seemed soooo young! She's so demure compared to our local-era Helen. But anyway, she was much younger when she was with John in a trusting relationship. I paid close attention during both broadcasts, and didn't see her actions as being bun-in-the-oven related. She had been dealt an emotional blow below the belt by her former lover. She might even have thought she was going to wretch there for a minute. If she was pregnant by John at that point, I'd have to say she'd had a serious lapse in judgement. But then, Helen plays by her own rules...

As for the bump, yes, I saw it too. Not sure if that was just the style of dress or what, but Future!Helen definitely had a different silhouette. That was why I paid attention. There was a bump, but I don't think it was Ashley. But then, who's to say she was only pregnant once? I do wonder if a 48 year old single woman being pregnant was a huge scandal back then, and if she'd care?

I thought I'd already corrected myself in an earlier post? Anyway, after posting that bump-theory I realized if it was 1898 there was no way for her to be pregnant at the time because Magnus said she kept the embryo frozen for over a century. So, it's simply not possible since Ashley was 23 in 2009. She had to have been conceived around 1886 or even earlier. Which makes the following discussion very interesting...

Now that I think about it - didn't we see in the first Victorian-era flashbacks in the pilot (when Helen is a tad late shooting John before he kills the hooker) John tells the lady Helen is his EX-fiancee? Thus, I can't imagine Helen would have gone back to him anytime after she discovered what he had done, so she would have needed to be pregnant before 1888 (ten years before this episode takes place). However, we do know how strong her attraction to him is - even after a century (think: the sweet scene as she lays with him in For King & Country.) It's also possible that he forced himself on her during this episode's timeline, since we see here that she's not able to stand up to him at this point, like we're used to seeing with present-day Helen.

Yeah, had to be pregnant before 1888 and considering the way Magnus reacts to John I find it hard to believe he had once upon a time forced himself upon her, aka raped her. That simply clashes with how she reacts to him in the present (especially in For King and Country). I also believe it would have made PastHelen react more aggressive towards him if he'd violated her before, possibly have screamed for James or one of her butlers when she realized the gun was gone.

Helen's birthday is August 28, 1850. That is canon.

Actually, I thought it was August 27, 1850? If I'm not mistaken AT (and co) picked the date randomly as it was a day before her own birthday which they were celebrating. So it's not really canon if it was off screen, is it?

I just realized, duh, yes the Ripper murders only lasted a few months in 1888. I want more details about how John was her 'patient' as he said when he proposed to her in the carriage. Surely that was before the murders, or she wouldn't have agreed to marry him. If the source blood was injected before that in 1888, that means Ashley was conceived in that year, between the two events. I've been trying to nail that down for a while. I won't hold my breath on getting any canon backup on that, though.

Yes, the patient-thing bothers me too. She's an MD not a psychiatrist, right? Why could he have been a patient of hers, her first actually IIRC. Unless she called him her patient because she was helping him adjust to his new powers... I believe that's what she did with the boys, isn't it?

I already calculated Ashley had to have been conceived prior to 1886 to have been kept frozen "for over a century", which makes the 1888 timing very strange. Are we sure that's when John proposed? Because that would mean they had even gone more unVictorian by having sexual intercourse before getting even engaged! It would explain why she's willing to inject herself with the source blood if she isn't carrying a baby at that time, although I always assumed that Helen chose to freeze Ashley because of her gift and John's killings. Unless John was really getting counseling or something from her, already showing a taste for violence which could explain why she didn't want to have his baby yet... However, if Helen chose to freeze the embryo and John was either aware of it (maybe helped her choose) or he suspected something, it would explain how he knew Ashley was his in 2009. They hadn't seen each other in over 60 years and he just knew she was his?

Thinking about all this makes me wonder how and when Helen (and the others) discovered she had the gift of longevity... it's not like you would know right away. It could easily be seen as aging slowly for the first decade or so, especially if her mother also didn't look her age.

Oh, good point. I always think the creature came almost as soon as the source blood injection. Perhaps they actually had a few years of love and peace before JtR... which goes a long way with me to explaining why Helen still loves him so much.

Perhaps if the source blood injection had been closer to the date Ashley should have been conceived... although the killings probably shouldn't have come years after the injection or they wouldn't be able to blame his new gift for it.

Gregory was frozen by the Cabal.

It's what they assumed in the beginning, but he'd gone missing during an expedition and ended up in Hollow Earth. He must have been searching for it or at least know of its existence or he wouldn't have been able to give Helen those birthday gifts which led them to Hollow Earth. And he said he'd spent 60 years or so in Praxis, so...

That was just a specualtion, but this has been proven invalid later.

Yeah, it was hinted at in a commentary in season one, but later retconned with Gregory explaining he'd been living in Praxis for decades and got to his advanced age like that...

You know, all this advanced medicine and most of The Five living as long as Helen (well, before the end of this ep anyway) either with or without her help (or blood) makes her gift of longevity seem really lame. She really isn't so special anymore... Although she'll probably have 113 years of life experience over them once she returns, but still.

[Kilgharrah]

Yes, the patient-thing bothers me too. She's an MD not a psychiatrist, right? Why could he have been a patient of hers, her first actually IIRC. Unless she called him her patient because she was helping him adjust to his new powers... I believe that's what she did with the boys, isn't it?

She came to her every once in a while "as a patient" so that she would inject him with her blood, which helps him adjust. That's what I understood back in season 1.

Yeah, it was hinted at in a commentary in season one, but later retconned with Gregory explaining he'd been living in Praxis for decades and got to his advanced age like that...

You know, all this advanced medicine and most of The Five living as long as Helen (well, before the end of this ep anyway) either with or without her help (or blood) makes her gift of longevity seem really lame. She really isn't so special anymore... Although she'll probably have 113 years of life experience over them once she returns, but still.

Look at Adam. He looks old, while Helen doesn't even though she's older than him. He was a student at the university when they were professors, but still Adam looks older than Helen, so I guess the Praxian way is not as good as Helen's. I guess the Praxian way gives a long lifespan, but not as long as Helen's and when Helen injects someone with her blood, they do get longetivity for a short time until they need more of her. I think she only did it to keep the five alongside her. She wouldn't want to live alone. Even though it didn't work on Nigel and wasn't as good with Watson. The most significant effect was observed on John. I think that could be because she gave him more or maybe that's why he was her patient. She might have been studying him and why it had that effect on him and only him.

[fems]

She came to her every once in a while "as a patient" so that she would inject him with her blood, which helps him adjust. That's what I understood back in season 1.

I assume you mean he came to her? I don't think injecting him with her blood would have helped him adjust... Didn't she once say she feared she was responsible for his madness because of her blood? Anyway, if he did come to her at that time for her blood or just counseling, it would suggest that they'd gotten engaged after the source blood.

Look at Adam. He looks old, while Helen doesn't even though she's older than him. He was a student at the university when they were professors, but still Adam looks older than Helen, so I guess the Praxian way is not as good as Helen's. I guess the Praxian way gives a long lifespan, but not as long as Helen's and when Helen injects someone with her blood, they do get longetivity for a short time until they need more of her. I think she only did it to keep the five alongside her. She wouldn't want to live alone. Even though it didn't work on Nigel and wasn't as good with Watson. The most significant effect was observed on John. I think that could be because she gave him more or maybe that's why he was her patient. She might have been studying him and why it had that effect on him and only him.

Um, no. They were all students at Oxford, not professors. It's even a question of whether Helen was a real student at the time, considering women weren't allowed to go to the university at that time and when women were finally allowed it wasn't immediately in those areas (rather more feminine subjects). I'd say Adam looked to be in his early/mid forties while Helen looked to be in her mid-thirties at the time. Adam's age would probably fit with having a daughter in her teens like Imogen at that time, assuming his wife was younger when they got married.

[RealmOfX]

Sorry but you are really reaching here with your "logic". Especially when you are basing some of it on looks. The looks belong to the actors, makeup does wonders but the looks are essentially the actors not the characters.

All we have from canon is that Helen ages very slowly and that Watson said she hadn't aged a bit since the 1800's. There's nothing solid to base any extrapolating logic as to how slow in years the aging really is.

[Kilgharrah]

I assume you mean he came to her? I don't think injecting him with her blood would have helped him adjust... Didn't she once say she feared she was responsible for his madness because of her blood? Anyway, if he did come to her at that time for her blood or just counseling, it would suggest that they'd gotten engaged after the source blood.

Now that you mention it. I think she was studying him to see what caused the sudden change of behavior (That was later found out to be the electrical entity inside him).

Um, no. They were all students at Oxford, not professors. It's even a question of whether Helen was a real student at the time, considering women weren't allowed to go to the university at that time and when women were finally allowed it wasn't immediately in those areas (rather more feminine subjects). I'd say Adam looked to be in his early/mid forties while Helen looked to be in her mid-thirties at the time. Adam's age would probably fit with having a daughter in her teens like Imogen at that time, assuming his wife was younger when they got married.

OK, you are right that they were all students, but not sure Adam's older. There's no proof for that. A teenage daughter is not a proof. He could have gotten married early.