Sanctuary Discussion (Spoilers for the most recent episode)

[Jumble]

Loving the discussion guys,

Sky good point about what changes Helen would have seen, the horse to car and letter to IM wow, that's huge changes.

A Sanctuary in Scotland would be cool, we also have big accent and dialect differences to England and in some case talking can be funny as we don't always understand each other, hehe!

Scottish stereotypes: No we don't all live in mud huts and where kilts, we don't know everyone in Scotland personally, and yes we have TV. LOL.

(Believe me I've met folk who do believe those stereotypes.)

Julia(samcarterrules)

I've met them too, you'd be surprised what some people think about the English Roast beef and Yorkshire puds every Sunday at our country mansions

I'll be up in St Andrews next week, trying to make myself understood with my southern accent

[katjoy]

Ah the youngling is still at it.

I wonder how peeved Helen gets when faced with people of limited age and experience declaring that X is not how it is when she has the first hand knowledge that it is indeed so.

Spoiler:

i realise you have used a at the end of the statement: but just so you know i dont like being called a youngling... ive always been an old soul, i cannot remember a time when ive thought like a typical kid, teenager or 20s group about things...

and just to clear things up, i know that the image had to come from somewhere, so there would have been people who influenced what became crocodile dundee... but since that time this movie has become an icon of australia, and in its footsteps has come a certain perseption of what an australian acts and sounds like... this has somewhere along the way become the singlet and thong wearing yobbo who throws a shrimp on the barbie and says gday mate to everyone they meet and the voice... then along comes steve irwin who ups the anti on the voice and slang, further perpetuating to todays world that this is what it is to be australian... kath and kim is another show that has come in popular culture to be associated with being australian...

i also never said that nobody uses such slang, i asked how many people you knew who said gday mate, because i dont personally know anyone who does... i also said i didnt know anyone who talked like steve irwin, not that none existed... but clearly its not a common, everyday thing, which is what i was getting at...

my dad uses the word mate when talking to people hes never even met on the phone, but its not in some weird steve irwin voice... and i have heard people use the term crikey, but again not in the out there voice that outsiders associate with us... its not so much the termonology that bugs me but the way outsiders think we say it...

i have never over 4 states, multiple suburbs, 4 primary school, 2 high schools, at work or just on the streets heard anyone who sounds like steve irwin... and yet i am constantly asked by people i meet from overseas online if i say gday mate, if i am a fan of steve irwin and told i love your accent... all of which have been picked up from this caricture of what an australian is...

so yes i had more to say, but not as a young or inexperienced person [also rather offputting], but as an australian who is sick to death of the world comparing us to such an insulting stereotype, to 80% of the conversations i have with non-australians starting with the exact same questions once they find out im australian... and ive been on forums since about 2001, and talked to people in egypt, american, canada and all over europe...

so i dont come across as rude or confrontational, i just dont like being lumped into a stereotype... i dont like that people think that the caricture is representative of the australian population, because it isnt...

I'm English, and definitely not pompous or stuck-up

I'm betting the Australians wood cringe to hear the Fosters adverts we get over here

definately not

i talk to a couple of english people i met through stargate... one on and off, the other quiet regularly and for quiet a few years and they are not pompous or stuck up... nor is my dads side of the family who are from england...

cringe hey, im just trying to think of what our fosters ads are like, but ive drawn a blank...

Oh so not true! Bring it on baby!! ...we'll do a six/sex thing at AT4!!

As do I!

It's funny though when you look at that map...to me, Sydney is up the road, SA is next door and Tassie is just a hop over the water. We drove to Brisbane over night once and Sydney is basically an all day trip. You can drive there in 8 hours.
Back to Sanctuary...do we know when the Sanctuary was opened in Old City??
For some weird reason, I had the feeling that it was established after WWII.
I'd like to know what made Helen decide to let Ashley do what she does? Who trained Ashley (even though I assume she inherited some of her skills from her dad) and how does Helen feel about putting Ashley in danger?? Why would she do that?

yeah, its definately weird... you can do a day trip in europe that takes in multiple countries... yet if i wanted to go interstate it would have to be an overnight trip from where i am...

not sure when sanctuary was opened in old city...

but as for helen, id say she had a hand in ashleys training, she is her mothers daughter after all and i doubt helen would have been able to discourage her participation, so better she knows what she is doing... i also guess that her upbringing would shed a different light on how she sees ashleys own upbringing... while im sure there are times when she wishes that ashley could have had a simpler and safer life she probably also has that part of her that says we are doing a good thing, it is worth the sacrifices... and she doesnt like some of the situations ashley puts herself into, she definately worries about her safety, but at the same time she knows that ashley knows what she is doing and knows how to take care of herself... so id say shes somewhere between being grateful to have ashleys expertise and wishing ashley could be her daughter first and foremost instead of her comrade in arms...

i guess the next question would be if something were to happen to ashley would helen still see maintaining the sanctuaries, protecting the abnormals and continuing her lifes work as worth it...

[rderoch]

Seriously?

I sometimes think Americans are proud of their limited world knowledge. Sigh. Generalising, I know, but that's what it feels like sometimes.

Not sure how this turned into American ignorance. And I know I for one try to learn as much as I can about other countries/cultures. That's just one reason why I love accents, it's just one piece of the cultural puzzle of a country/region.

just out of curiosity - how many people do you actually know that say gday mate

because i dont know anyone who talks the way people think aussies do... its just a caricture started by crocodile dundee and perpetuated by the likes of steve irwin and kath & kim...

i can pick up when people have an accent, the problem i have i knowing what the accent actually is now british/southern would be very interesting to hear... i love the southern american accent, its awesome

if you want to hear a kiwi accent listen to lucy lawless in the movie 'bedtime stories'...

yup, so we cant day trip to another state unless we live near the boarder... cause from where i am to brisbane [capital of queensland] is a 1.5 hour drive and thus a day trip in itself... now when i was in the states last year we were able to travel between 3 states in one day no problem...

I always figured g'day mate was supposed to be an outback thing. Kind of like howdy or ya'll here in the states. It's a regional thing. Crocodile dundee would probably be just as out of place in Sydney as in NYC.

I love Lucy's accent. And that was a cute movie. Southern accents are cool and there's such a variety of them. Every state has it's own variation.

Would be fun.

Dad had a Brooklyn/Southern one. Very strange, though I'd think the English/Southern accent would be weirder.

Depends on where you are. There are some many states that take a full day to cross. It's only on the east coast that states are small enough to do that. And even many of orgininal 13 colonies Schoolhouse Rock flashback for all you Yanks out there! take hours.

suse

Brooklyn. Yeah, the northeast coast has some REAL interesting accents. I love the fact the folks from Massachusetts or Maine seem to drop the 'r' from so many words. I figure that's why people in the south add them into words. They catch the one's falling from up north.

It takes about 6 hours to go from the southern border of Michigan to the top of the lower peninsula. And another 6 to go across the top peninsula. Doesn't seem that big til you start to drive it.

some states you can drive through several in a day, but here in kansas, it's about 6 hours from east to west

Stargate used to mess that up too...lik having jack go to the cabin for the weekend, minnesota is like 20+ hours drive from colorado

oh, and here in kansas, the only indians we have are the ones that run the casinos, the buffalo live on ranches and make good eating and even when we get over 100 tornadoes in a year, most of them simply spin out in fields and do no damage

Yum. Buffalo burgers.

Good point. Thinking of that...the frontier could make for a good isolated Sanctuary--but then she'd be far from supplies. And Magnus is a London girl and I don't really see her becoming "Dr. Magnus, Medicine Woman." (wonders if anyone will remember Dr. Quinn)

I have that show on dvd.

Way to insult the Canadian contigent, Sky.



I figure that it's got to be pretty big since it's its own continent. D'uh.



I can attest to that. I'm currently visiting my sister who's one state to the west. We drove almost nine hours to get here, and it would still take us a few hours to cross the border into another state.

It blew my mind when I first went to Germany and discovered I could be in another country on a day trip.

I wonder how much Helen misses the slower pace of life and how much she regrets Ashley's not having the same kind of slower-paced childhood she had.

Boy, she doesn't even want to touch borders with us.

Yeah, the perspective is completely different in Europe. There, within a few hours drive, you're in a completely different country speaking a different language. Of course, depending on the state you are traveling from/to it sometimes feels that way here too.

I would just like to point out that it's the Australians that say sex instead of six. We may need to prove this at AT4... we have 3 Kiwis and 3 Aussies to work with.

Accent wars!

how about the brit/possible aussie

schedule

we do skedule
you guys do chhedule

And is it only here in the states that we attach articles to words like hospital? I know British/Canadian is "in hospital", we say "in the hospital".

I had the hardest time with that when I was teaching in England. I had one lad who's name was Craig, and I simply could not for the life of me pronounce his name the way he wanted it pronounced - it was like my tongue wouldn't move in the correct direction or something =P I felt bad (because his classmates would often take the mick after I called on him), but I couldn't stop asking him to participate!

On a similar note, I had a group of students in Sunderland try to teach me how to speak Mackin (their local dialect). They couldn't understand why I was having such difficulty with simple phrases until I tried to teach them how to say 'eh' like we do -- after struggling with that for a bit, they stopped giving me a hard time about my 'a'ryt'

Steering back to Sanctuary, I wonder if, having travelled as extensively as she has, if Helen ever slips into colloquialisms or regional dialects - either by accident (triggered) or on purpose (to better communicate with the locals). Well, other than Victorian English, of course, if that actually counts as a 'dialect', persay. I know I sound (mostly) Cdn right now, but if I speak to anyone with an English or Scottish accent, my funky hybrid accent comes back automatically.

That's why I find it interesting that the American accent seems to be so easy for people to do, yet we have a tough time doing other accents. Apparently our tongues aren't as flexible.

I'm English, and definitely not pompous or stuck-up

I'm betting the Australians wood cringe to hear the Fosters adverts we get over here

I've met them too, you'd be surprised what some people think about the English Roast beef and Yorkshire puds every Sunday at our country mansions

I'll be up in St Andrews next week, trying to make myself understood with my southern accent

None of the stereotypes of England held true when I was there. The people were very warm, friendly and down to earth. It seemed we struck up conversations with people everywhere we went. And the food was wonderful. Though I'm trying to figure out the obsession with beans at breakfast.

Ya know, this conversation we've all been having has actually answered a question I had. I've always wondered if people had trouble understanding us when we traveled. (though actually on our trip to the UK there was only one person we met that we had trouble understanding - she was from Glasgow and her accent was really thick. Had no trouble at all in Edinburgh.) But with all the exportation of American entertainment, people across the ponds get exposed to the accent quite a bit.

[Skydiver]

one reason americans might seem to stupiid....other countries are far away - by and large.

mexico and canada....not really foreign countries if you get my meaning. Heck, few more years there won't even be much of a language barrier while those of you in europe, you can drive a few hours and be in another country.

i think a majority of americans never leave their own country because there's not one handy and near by and it's a big deal to take that long trans oceanic flight to go to another country

it's all we can do to keep up wiht our own country and then most learning is 'book learning' not experiences, and it's simply because other countries are too hard and too expensive to get to

[Jumble]

<snip>

None of the stereotypes of England held true when I was there. The people were very warm, friendly and down to earth. It seemed we struck up conversations with people everywhere we went. And the food was wonderful. Though I'm trying to figure out the obsession with beans at breakfast.

I'm glad to hear it

Beans for breakfast? Maybe in th local cafe, but I don't think most people woodn't eat them at home

Ya know, this conversation we've all been having has actually answered a question I had. I've always wondered if people had trouble understanding us when we traveled. (though actually on our trip to the UK there was only one person we met that we had trouble understanding - she was from Glasgow and her accent was really thick. Had no trouble at all in Edinburgh.) But with all the exportation of American entertainment, people across the ponds get exposed to the accent quite a bit.

The Glaswegian accent is very hard to understand, even for other Scots. But they sure know how to celebrate Hogmannay (That's New Year's eve for those that don't know)

[scifithinker]

I had the hardest time with that when I was teaching in England. I had one lad who's name was Craig, and I simply could not for the life of me pronounce his name the way he wanted it pronounced - it was like my tongue wouldn't move in the correct direction or something =P I felt bad (because his classmates would often take the mick after I called on him), but I couldn't stop asking him to participate!

(...)

Steering back to Sanctuary, I wonder if, having travelled as extensively as she has, if Helen ever slips into colloquialisms or regional dialects - either by accident (triggered) or on purpose (to better communicate with the locals). Well, other than Victorian English, of course, if that actually counts as a 'dialect', persay. I know I sound (mostly) Cdn right now, but if I speak to anyone with an English or Scottish accent, my funky hybrid accent comes back automatically.

I have to ask about the origin or meaning of the phrase I've bolded above. I had a great aunt named Lillian who was given the nickname Mickey while she was in college because of this phrase. I think it had to do with her maiden name, but I don't remember what her maiden name was. Or maybe it had to do with slipping someone a mickey. I'm not sure, but I don't know what either phrase means. Any insight would be appreciated.

As far as accents go, I think they've changed as a result of the world growing (figuratively) smaller. People don't tend to stay in their own little corner of the world the way they used to. Travel is accessible to more and more people, so we all get more exposure to other people who speak with different accents. For me, it happened early in life because I'm a Navy brat. I had lived on both coasts and the northern and southern US by the time I was six. I've spent most of my life in Virginia, but I can only think of two words that I say differently since I moved here. (I now no longer pronounce route as root, and I say ohnt instead of ant for aunt.) I've been to Germany, Italy and the UK as an adult, and my accent was only a problem in Germany where I was speaking in German. (Talk about a foreign accent!) I had no problems whatsoever in the UK, and I know I won't have problems in Vancouver next summer.

I like the accent Amanda developed for Helen. It's obvious she has an accent, but it's been modulated by her life experiences. Ashley's accent is so different, it's clear that Helen didn't raise her in Britain. I think it just adds to the complexity of the character, and it's fitting for Helen at 157 years old. I think people become more complex as they age because they've been changed by their experiences, and Helen is nothing if not complex. I suspect Helen doesn't slip up and use old accents or regional phrases because she's so deliberate in her choices. Which doesn't mean she doesn't use these words and phrases, it just means she's chosen to keep them in her vocabulary. I think the exception, though, would be when she's in danger of being killed. That would unnerve anyone.

[Jumble]

Scifithinker the origin of 'take the Mick' is, um...

Spoiler:

"Take the mickey" is an abbreviated form of the Cockney rhyming slang "take the mickey bliss" ("mickey" being slang for penis), meaning to "take the piss [out of someone]". The phrase has been noted since the 1930s.

[scifithinker]

since this is getting offtopic ill put my response in spoilers...

Spoiler:

ok, i can see how what i said could be misinterpreted...

but i know what i said... i asked if she knew anyone who said gday mate [as in the words] i then said i dont know anyone who talks the way other think we do, not that nobody says the phrases... because the entertainment industry did take something from back in the day and turned it into a caricture [the only way it could become a caricture is if it became engrained in popular culture]... however it is by no means something that is typical today, and yet these are the things that outsiders grapple onto as to what australians sound like...

actually like ive already said - in tv and movies the actors sound like what i hear every day... that is, for the most part, what australians sounds like... i dont even know anyone who sounds like chase in house... that is again done to try and differentiate the aussie character from the americans... i relate sound wise to the other characters, chases voice is the one that sounds different to me...

and the perpetuated australian accent is so engrained as being what we sound like that when ive been in the states and canada and people notice i have an accent they always ask what it is... nobody has ever asked if it is an australian accent, just what is it... and when they find out im australian thats when i get the 'gday mate' and steve irwin comments...

and to the US cowboys comment, exactly... how would you or any other americans feel if everyone thought all americans spoke like that... its also like saying all british people are pompous sounding and stuck up, its just not the case...

actually i think that steve irwin was all about the public image and creating a character in the steve irwin the public saw... i think the over the top voice and constant use of slang was his way of appealing to the overseas audience who too often associate that very image with being australian... he was just perpetuating a sellable image...

but at the end of the day all i ask of people is that they realise that crocodile dundee and steve irwin are not representative of australians... im not the only one who finds it insulting...

The way to combat stereotypes is by confronting them (by which I don't mean being confrontational with the people who hold them). If you have to explain to people why the stereotypes aren't true, so be it. But stereotypes tend to persist because they have a grain of truth to them. If all I've ever seen from Australia is Crocodile Dundee and Steve Irwin, that's going to be all I know of Australia. It's not to be insulting that I accept the stereotype, it's a simple lack of experience. To be honest, there are a lot of people who have no concept of what Australia is like because it's not on their radar at all. That doesn't imply any hostility either. I think at this point, you can consider us here educated on the topic.

One of the things I love about Gateworld is the exposure to people of all types, but I'm certainly not your typical American. (Most Americans don't learn a foreign language because there's no chance of its ever being a useful skill.) Most Americans never leave their country. I'm not condemning it as a bad thing per se, it simply is. Travel isn't cheap, and it's out of reach of many people's purses. I also don't know many people who travel for vacations other than to visit relatives. I haven't stayed in a hotel in my own country for years. (Right now, I'm sleeping on an airbed inmy sister's living room. )

The stereotype Helen fights? That abnormals don't exists or are all monsters who should be taken out. A huge chunk of her work lies in educating people, including the abnormals themselves. (Take Henry as an example.)

[jckfan55]

another thing i noticed when in the states is that while we are aware of your alternate words for things americans arent aware of other country's alternatives... my friend and i met up with friends in the states and they didnt know what we ment when we said boot, bonnett, sauce, chips, mobile, lollies, fringe... and thats just off the top of my head...

Let's see: Boot=trunk of a car
Bonnett=hood of a car
sauce=?
chips=french fries
mobile=cell phone
lollies=popcicles?
fring=bangs?

how did I do?

i wonder if that'd be hard for her. simply because in the era she was raised, it would have been considered inappropriate for a lady of breeding to speak in local dialect or colloquialisms. proper queen's english is all that woulda been acceptible

good point. One of the things I liked about REquiem was the changing accents when she was tormenting Will. She drops into a less proper accent & then uses a bit of an American accent on "Helen." It would be interesting to get AT's reasoning. I read the "you're not yourself, Helen" with a very American "helen" as a way to mock Will, but wasn't sure about the other. More threatening? More out of control?

i guess the next question would be if something were to happen to ashley would helen still see maintaining the sanctuaries, protecting the abnormals and continuing her lifes work as worth it...

Excellent question. I could see Helen getting very depressed. I'm not sure if that would take the form of lashing out or withdrawing, though. I could see either her going totally dark side or catatonic. (((Helen)))

[Skydiver]

how about
pants = underpants
trousers = pants
fanny....so ain't gonna go there
trolly - cart
telly - TV
lounge room - living room
car park - parking lot
jumper = sweater
trainers = tennies/sneakers

[yunadax]

I must say I'm enjoying all the comparisons between countries here... its wonderful to find out the nuances between cultures and the like. (and for the record.. I do actually use G'Day in everyday conversation.. its the westie in me!)

I had a plot bunny the other night that I dunno if it will turn into anything yet, speaking of us Aussies, what is there was an abnormal lose in the outback (think black panther for those other NSW peoples) and Helen & team set off to find it...perhaps with a local guide, perhaps with someone from their Aussie sanctuary.
Something worth pondering?

Back on topic... saw Requiem last night.. man I love that episode

[Skydiver]

how about if someone thought it was an abnormal, but it was really a spirit of the aboriginal people...mistaken identity

[RealmOfX]

one reason americans might seem to stupiid....other countries are far away - by and large.

mexico and canada....not really foreign countries if you get my meaning. Heck, few more years there won't even be much of a language barrier while those of you in europe, you can drive a few hours and be in another country.

i think a majority of americans never leave their own country because there's not one handy and near by and it's a big deal to take that long trans oceanic flight to go to another country

it's all we can do to keep up wiht our own country and then most learning is 'book learning' not experiences, and it's simply because other countries are too hard and too expensive to get to

Sorry Sky but those things all apply to us over here too and yet the average Aussie & Kiwi has a lot more world knowledge than Yanks. I think the reason for it is an underlying cultural one.

I must say I'm enjoying all the comparisons between countries here... its wonderful to find out the nuances between cultures and the like. (and for the record.. I do actually use G'Day in everyday conversation.. its the westie in me!)

I had a plot bunny the other night that I dunno if it will turn into anything yet, speaking of us Aussies, what is there was an abnormal lose in the outback (think black panther for those other NSW peoples) and Helen & team set off to find it...perhaps with a local guide, perhaps with someone from their Aussie sanctuary.
Something worth pondering?

Back on topic... saw Requiem last night.. man I love that episode

but it's not actually because you're a westie, Oy! now there's a stereotype! Despite someone else's utter horror at this aspect of part of Australian culture, it does exist and is reasonably common. So much so, that most people don't raise an eyebrow (let alone be horribly insulted) when they hear it.


That plot bunny is a good one but I'm not sure if the black panther is a good example. Why not a bunyip? It's varying descriptions could be taken from some tribes beliefs of ancient animal people who were very intelligent and almost magical. Though you probably shouldn't go as far as the Yowie because the hominid aspect of some of those legends might be too close to the Bigfoot legends and might pale beside the big guy

[suse]

Sorry Sky but those things all apply to us over here too and yet the average Aussie & Kiwi has a lot more world knowledge than Yanks. I think the reason for it is an underlying cultural one.

Oh, I'd agree that it's cultural to some/a large extent. Also, people have been here much longer (emmigrated) than many have in Australia/New Zealand. Many of you folks seem to have cousins/aunts/uncles overseas because you are 1st/2nd generation. That's not so often the case here, generally speaking.

ETA: I know this is a generalization.

suse

[Skydiver]

my 'ancestors' came over in the early 1900's. I have no idea where in europe they came from, so no ties there

in grade school, when we're studying history, any time between the 1700's and 1919, the only history you get taught is ours.

especially here in the midwest, we don't get a lot of immigrants (other than mexicans)