Discussion about hot topics trending today

[SoulReaver]

The availability of those low wage illegals or in some cases legal immigrants applies downward pressure on wages for U.S. citizens competing for the same jobs.

Take fruit picking, one of the jobs that many claim US workers won't do. If there were no "discount workers" available to them, businesses would have to pay whatever wage rate it takes to get US citizens to do the job, or the fruit rots on the vine. You put up a help wanted ad offering $30 bucks an hour + benefits to get people to pick your cherry orchards (or whatever) and you will get a lot of applicants. Offer $10 / Hour, with no benefits and you won't get many applicants; no one would want to do that work for those wages.

Add illegals to the labor pool, who will do it for $10/Hour, and what business is going to pay the US worker the higher wage?

The presence of the illegals in the labor pool forces wage rates down, which is harmful to the US workers who might otherwise be able to earn a living picking that fruit.

that's all based on the assumption that there's fierce competition for those jobs in the first place. is fruit picking such a coveted job? (though I can think of much more unpleasant work)

Of course, the other side of the coin is that the cost of cherries will skyrocket to the point of unaffordability. But that higher price is the true cost of growing and bringing those cherries to market.

or conversely the illegals' lower wages are the cost of lower prices

Business subsidizes that production cost with the labor of the illegals at below market rates. In effect, those illegals are paying the difference between actual prices and the true market value with their labor at discount rates.

again relativity. they win too cause they're still better off than they were back home

Why aren't any of the people who are pro-illegal raising that as an issue? After all, they're supposed to be so concerned about the welfare of the illegals.

doesn't mean rules should be same as citizens (when did I say otherwise)

[SGalisa]

USA Democrats & TPTB in charge are proving how much they like wasting TAXPAYER money on how power-hungry/mad they are and tossing huge portions of it into non-essential stuff... like investigations such as the "made-up" dossier (PP) story.

If this disturbing *trend* is what they do now, what will they do once they regain back complete power control..? That is the question and disturbing on many levels.



Wow. It's surprising the Dems didn't also toss Dinesh D'Souza's documentary on "Hillary’s America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party" into that lawsuit as well.

All around dumb lawsuit.
General consensus (among many POVs elsewhere on internet--NOT done in polls) has been and still *is* STOP wasting TAXPayer money, and apply it to more productive projects, please! But Dems&Company see the pursuit of these lawsuits as being "productive"
while the rest of us/US do NOT.

Those who lived during Bill Clinton's presidency didn't care for certain things that occurred (gov-secrets given over to China.. that sort of stuff), figured it would be more of the same under Hillary, except maybe worse since she has a trail of "dead body" rumors following her, for those who were very vocal against her in the past.

For everyone else who have either read the (conspiracy) papers over the years, or watched Dinesh D'Souza's documentary on "Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party" -- well, they've got a similar complaint issues against Hillary's policies. It's NOT because she is female, it *is* because of her policies on *why* they didn't vote for her.

Many people saw the USA being pulled apart and thrown into racial wars, under President Obama's reign, when he *had* the ability to pull our nation and world together -- yet, many cities in the USA saw the exact opposite occur...

Yeah, I saw that.. the idiots at the DNC are trying to achieve in civil court what they could not prove with Mueller's investigation, same damned thing that happened in the OJ Simpson case; they couldn't get a conviction in criminal court, so let's try civil court, where the standards of proof are lower.

Why can't they just admit the ran a lousy candidate, learn from their mistake and move on? In anything, accepting your mistake and learning from it is the first step to doing it better next time.

Regarding polling, I strongly suspect that the polls are severely underestimating support for Trump and the Republicans. People who do support Trump and the Republicans are subject to a lot of harassment, ridicule and other negative behavior directed towards them from from the left-leaning part of society. While they strongly support Trump, they keep quiet about it so as to fly under the radar, so to speak.

For clarification (b/c it's too late to edit)--
1) I meant to say add Dinesh D'Souza into the lawsuit because of his documentary on "Hillary's America..." not the documentary itself.

Regarding Dems&Company--
2) Dems won't admit to anything that appears negative against their cause, because they are too proud to admit to it. As a few people elsewhere (on the internet) have pointed out, it is the Dems who are "dreaming" and fantasizing about their goals, which includes ousting Trump and the entire Republican party, if they could --forever. The goal of their One party system will lead into the united, global government system, which is already semi-sort of set up in place (United Nations regulatory rule books). All it needs is tweaking and the unification of ALL nations on the planet to go into agreement with it, and then a few strokes of the pen to codify the entire system into global law everywhere. Yes, we *are* that close to achieving this goal world-wide.

Regarding polls--
3) I know many people who are not Democrat who refuse to participate in political surveys any more. This is skewing the number of who favors what, and if the people polling find someone in their survey who is basically "sitting on the proverbial fence to go either direction politically" those numbers get skewed to favor whatever it is the Dems are looking for in their polls.

One of our family members works for political survey polls, and even if we *knew* it was him calling us, we won't answer the phone -- even if it was him we'd be talking directly to.. we just don't participate in those surveys any more, including PEW research and the more reputable/reliable ones. The answering machine does the work.

This sort of reaction --to not respond to such surveys-- has been going on ever since before President Obama left office, too (I've been tracking comments in various places about it, when they seem to pop up on the internet in certain websites). So, it's not a recent phenomena, but is becoming more popular among those who disagree with the Dem/"Deep State"/GOP (John McCain & company) agenda.

So, let the Dems continue to dream about their ultimate goals. If they finally achieve their goals, *general consensus* believes we should expect the USA to fall apart faster than it currently is in all directions (based on POVs not included in polls, but in general news discussions). A family and thus country divided against itself will not stand. Whatever the USA appears to be after 200 years, when the Obama Admin pushed US faster into falling apart economically and emotionally between 2008-2016, it was pulling out foundation stones to help the collapse for the next (DEM) official to make this situation possible with a few more strokes of the proverbial law pen.
"Venezuela here we come!" (to join it in the apparent collapsing *chaos* about to occur!) ...

[Annoyed]

that's all based on the assumption that there's fierce competition for those jobs in the first place. is fruit picking such a coveted job? (though I can think of much more unpleasant work)

There is intense competition for ANY job that pays a living wage.

again relativity. they win too cause they're still better off than they were back home

But US workers lose. By undercutting the "standard" wage rates, they drive wages that US workers earn down.

Even when it comes to immigrants in the country legally, this happens. Two examples are Disney and Microsoft. Both companies have been in the news, firing their US workers and replacing them with lower wage immigrants.

[Annoyed]

The goal of their One party system will lead into the united, global government system, which is already semi-sort of set up in place (United Nations regulatory rule books). All it needs is tweaking and the unification of ALL nations on the planet to go into agreement with it, and then a few strokes of the pen to codify the entire system into global law everywhere. Yes, we *are* that close to achieving this goal world-wide.

That is a laudable goal. To borrow a concept from Star Trek, someplace in franchise history, possibly non-canon, it it is established that a planet must have advanced to the point where they had a one-world govt. in order to apply for membership in the Federation.

But I don't think that can be achieved in any society or planet where resources, primarily energy are limited and therefore there is competition for those resources. And that is proper; if a man, or nation has to, he should compete for resources needed to thrive.

In Trek, energy is universally available and at low cost. And with matter-energy conversion, there is therefore no shortage of any resource.

But we aren't there yet. Until then, competition for resources is inevitable, with each man or nation looking out for his own best interests because he has to. At this point in our technological development, a global govt. is as far out of reality as FTL travel is.

[SoulReaver]

There is intense competition for ANY job that pays a living wage.

even the most unpleasant?
define "living wage"
illegals who are underpaid are still happy compared to their previous life back hope

But US workers lose. By undercutting the "standard" wage rates, they drive wages that US workers earn down.

I did specify "jobs that americans won't do"

Even when it comes to immigrants in the country legally, this happens. Two examples are Disney and Microsoft. Both companies have been in the news, firing their US workers and replacing them with lower wage immigrants.

your archaic labour laws allow a company to sack an employee even if they hasn't done anything wrong & the company's still prospering - that's another debate

[Coco Pops]

I was a little saddened to read this article.

Has the education system failed people?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#1d8f79967ec6

[Falcon Horus]

USA Democrats & TPTB in charge are proving how much they like wasting TAXPAYER money on how power-hungry/mad they are and tossing huge portions of it into non-essential stuff...

I'm rather amused by this line, since Trump uses your taxmoney to fly between mar-a-lago and the WH on a weekly basis. Pruitt uses it for private affairs. Was it Mnuchin who used taxpayer money to fly a private jet to his vacation?

*snort*

Your taxpayer money is even used to pay off sexual harassment cases.

[Annoyed]

I did specify "jobs that americans won't do"

I've already addressed this point. Americans won't do them for a pittance, but they will if you offer enough money. With immigrants taking the jobs at low wages, why should the company pay more? Hence, their presences forces wages down.

[Falcon Horus]

Perhaps the farms can't pay more cause they'll go bankrupt before they have even broken even with their sales.

[Gatefan1976]

Here is sort of an Extension of the above...

USA Democrats & TPTB in charge are proving how much they like wasting TAXPAYER money on how power-hungry/mad they are and tossing huge portions of it into non-essential stuff... like investigations such as the "made-up" dossier (PP) story.

Yeah, things like whitewater where the goal was follow the money, and when that failed, it was catch bill in a lie.
That lasted 6 years of the US TAXPAYER money and you are crying about a year..............
You know what cost even more?
War with Iraq.
So much for fiscal responsibility, something republicans scream from the rooftops they care about.

If this disturbing *trend* is what they do now, what will they do once they regain back complete power control..? That is the question and disturbing on many levels.

Why? Because it is not "your side" doing it?

Wow. It's surprising the Dems didn't also toss Dinesh D'Souza's documentary on "Hillary’s America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party" into that lawsuit as well.

Why would they, Dinesh is hardly worth a first thought, let alone a second.

All around dumb lawsuit.
General consensus (among many POVs elsewhere on internet--NOT done in polls) has been and still *is* STOP wasting TAXPayer money, and apply it to more productive projects, please! But Dems&Company see the pursuit of these lawsuits as being "productive"
while the rest of us/US do NOT.

In other words "In my echo chamber we all agree"
How odd...........

Those who lived during Bill Clinton's presidency didn't care for certain things that occurred (gov-secrets given over to China.. that sort of stuff), figured it would be more of the same under Hillary, except maybe worse since she has a trail of "dead body" rumors following her, for those who were very vocal against her in the past.

Need more tinfoil?

For everyone else who have either read the (conspiracy) papers over the years, or watched Dinesh D'Souza's documentary on "Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party" -- well, they've got a similar complaint issues against Hillary's policies. It's NOT because she is female, it *is* because of her policies on *why* they didn't vote for her.

Hillary was bad for one real good reason, she is a smart, educated woman, and "people" don't like that. Same happened here with Julia Gillard.
I did not like all her policies, but she got shafted unfairly.
Trump will get shafted fairly.

Many people saw the USA being pulled apart and thrown into racial wars, under President Obama's reign, when he *had* the ability to pull our nation and world together -- yet, many cities in the USA saw the exact opposite occur (Baltimore(MD), Ferguson(MO), parts of Oregon, Washington State). In addition, those same areas also experienced violent destruction occur damaging entire blocks of businesses, which most insurance companies were not set up to handle massive amounts of vandalism, such as what happened then. People causing deliberate damage is NOT regarded as "an act of Nature", which is more weather and geological affected.

I saw nothing out of Oregon and WS besides a few over the top protests, MD and MO however............
Oh hey, look at who runs those states.............

The chasms caused by certain individual persons is NOT what many Americans wanted to see happen, and certainly didn't want it to continue, regardless of "who" they voted for.

Let me clue you in.
You have been embracing that divide as a nation since the 60's when a little imp called Roger Ailes suggested making state TV a thing for his own profit.
Before then, you embraced it in segregation laws.
Before then, you had your most bloody war, between yourselves, and you have forgotten what that war was for.

[Gatefan1976]

The availability of those low wage illegals or in some cases legal immigrants applies downward pressure on wages for U.S. citizens competing for the same jobs.

Take fruit picking, one of the jobs that many claim US workers won't do. If there were no "discount workers" available to them, businesses would have to pay whatever wage rate it takes to get US citizens to do the job, or the fruit rots on the vine. You put up a help wanted ad offering $30 bucks an hour + benefits to get people to pick your cherry orchards (or whatever) and you will get a lot of applicants. Offer $10 / Hour, with no benefits and you won't get many applicants; no one would want to do that work for those wages.

Add illegals to the labor pool, who will do it for $10/Hour, and what business is going to pay the US worker the higher wage?

The presence of the illegals in the labor pool forces wage rates down, which is harmful to the US workers who might otherwise be able to earn a living picking that fruit.

Of course, the other side of the coin is that the cost of cherries will skyrocket to the point of unaffordability. But that higher price is the true cost of growing and bringing those cherries to market. Business subsidizes that production cost with the labor of the illegals at below market rates. In effect, those illegals are paying the difference between actual prices and the true market value with their labor at discount rates.

Why aren't any of the people who are pro-illegal raising that as an issue? After all, they're supposed to be so concerned about the welfare of the illegals.

Or, you know, you can subsidise the crap out of corps who own the cherry orchard (or whatever) so they still make money.
Look into your Sugar industry.

[Gatefan1976]

It would have been damned hard for them to come up with anyone that I wouldn't choose over Hillary.
If they had offered a JFK, or even Sanders, I would have considered them. But no way Hillary gets my vote.

Why?
The only reason I can come up with is that you have been feed a bunch of BS, have swallowed said BS willingly and now are eating a different flavour of BS that is somewhat more palatable as it is your kind of BS.
Guess what
You are still eating BS

[Womble]

The availability of those low wage illegals or in some cases legal immigrants applies downward pressure on wages for U.S. citizens competing for the same jobs.

Take fruit picking, one of the jobs that many claim US workers won't do. If there were no "discount workers" available to them, businesses would have to pay whatever wage rate it takes to get US citizens to do the job, or the fruit rots on the vine. You put up a help wanted ad offering $30 bucks an hour + benefits to get people to pick your cherry orchards (or whatever) and you will get a lot of applicants. Offer $10 / Hour, with no benefits and you won't get many applicants; no one would want to do that work for those wages.

Add illegals to the labor pool, who will do it for $10/Hour, and what business is going to pay the US worker the higher wage?

The presence of the illegals in the labor pool forces wage rates down, which is harmful to the US workers who might otherwise be able to earn a living picking that fruit.

Of course, the other side of the coin is that the cost of cherries will skyrocket to the point of unaffordability. But that higher price is the true cost of growing and bringing those cherries to market. Business subsidizes that production cost with the labor of the illegals at below market rates. In effect, those illegals are paying the difference between actual prices and the true market value with their labor at discount rates.

I'll tell you the two scenarios it could go

1- Farms go broke, being unable to market overpriced fruit. American agriculture dies, subsumed by vastly cheaper imports of foreign cherries and whatever else is being picked by $30 per hour plus benefits red-blooded American workers.

2- Farms get subsidized even more than before, out of the red-blooded American working stiff's taxes. The stiff, meanwhile, will not be able to afford to buy the fruit he so generously subsidizes.

[Annoyed]

I'll tell you the two scenarios it could go

1- Farms go broke, being unable to market overpriced fruit. American agriculture dies, subsumed by vastly cheaper imports of foreign cherries and whatever else is being picked by $30 per hour plus benefits red-blooded American workers.

2- Farms get subsidized even more than before, out of the red-blooded American working stiff's taxes. The stiff, meanwhile, will not be able to afford to buy the fruit he so generously subsidizes.

Unless of course, protectionist trade policies prevent the import of products that undercut US workers.

That's the core of the problem, isn't it? US workers are being forced by international companies to compete with labor forces that earn pennies on the dollar in their lands, or the govt. is subsidizing exports or manipulating currency values or.. the list goes on.

[Coco Pops]

I'm rather amused by this line, since Trump uses your taxmoney to fly between mar-a-lago and the WH on a weekly basis. Pruitt uses it for private affairs. Was it Mnuchin who used taxpayer money to fly a private jet to his vacation?

*snort*

Your taxpayer money is even used to pay off sexual harassment cases.

Ouch....... facts