The Israel/Lebanon situation

[DysfunctionalVeteran]

John Kennedy.

Jack is a nickname for John.

[DysfunctionalVeteran]

Deevil -
Ya know, I don't think Israel are the 'Good Guys here', they are acting as terrorists right now.
"Terrorist" has a very specific definition. A terrorist intentionally targets civillians for the express purpose of creating an atmoshpere of fear; in furtherance of a political end. What Israel is doing is defending itself against criminals.


They are attacking areas if Lebanon that are not Hezballah, and are distroying others.
No they aren't. You cannot claim that an area is not Hezbollah when that are gives them shelter & support and allows them to tunnel under their homes to fire rockets at Innocent civillians in Israel.


Add to this, there are many mixed reports as to who even started this conflict.
That's an outright lie. It is well known that the trigger for the current situation was the kidnapping of Israeli citizens during a cross-border incursion by Hezbollah terrorists.


And considering I do not take Israel's word as gospel , I think it's equally as likely that Israel created an excuse to attack.
Do you also believe that George Bush brought down the Twin Towers?


But in the end Israel has a right to defend itself, of course.
Gee... Mighty caucasion of you.


But I think they have to learn the difference between defence and scaled attack against a country it frankly doesn't even like...
No. YOU do.


I for one am tired of hearing all about the poor Israeli's and their persecution.
So?


Yes, it has happened in the past...
And continues to happen.


...but their current actions lend themselves to more terrorists attacks, or scaled attacks from neighbouring countries because the Israeli's are living under the misguided notion that 'might is right'.
They are living under the notion that they have a right to exist and live in peace, safe from the attacks of people who want to murder ALL of them.


Considering their past, you would think they wouldn't be so ready to engage, and yet, they are engaging gleefully.
Your "gleeful" comment is @$$inine, so I wont bother with it.
As regards their past, that's EXACTLY why they know they have to defend themselves NOW.

[DysfunctionalVeteran]

May I ask why it matters what he is?

He wants to be able to tell me that I have been brainwashed by the Bush Family Evil Empire and their Oil Loving, Neo-Conservative, PNAC controlled, Zionist media.

[Deevil]

Deevil -
Ya know, I don't think Israel are the 'Good Guys here', they are acting as terrorists right now.
"Terrorist" has a very specific definition. A terrorist intentionally targets civillians for the express purpose of creating an atmoshpere of fear; in furtherance of a political end. What Israel is doing is defending itself against criminals.

Yes, and I stand by my ascertion that Israel is acting as a terrorist right now. I don't ask you to agree with it, but that's all I see them doing. They are not just targetting criminals, actually they have targeted areas which do not, nor have they ever, housed Hezballah.

They are attacking areas if Lebanon that are not Hezballah, and are distroying others.
No they aren't. You cannot claim that an area is not Hezbollah when that are gives them shelter & support and allows them to tunnel under their homes to fire rockets at Innocent civillians in Israel.

And I can claim this, because it is true. Just because Israel says otherwise does not make what they say true.

Add to this, there are many mixed reports as to who even started this conflict.
That's an outright lie. It is well known that the trigger for the current situation was the kidnapping of Israeli citizens during a cross-border incursion by Hezbollah terrorists.

Ahh, but there are reports that Israel made the inital border incursion. It is not an outright lie. So please do not accuse me of such things. Add to that, did you know that Israel has planted landmines on the Lebonease side of the border?

And considering I do not take Israel's word as gospel , I think it's equally as likely that Israel created an excuse to attack.
Do you also believe that George Bush brought down the Twin Towers?

Dude, just because I am not going to believe a country that often acts without any forthought and with dispropotionate violence, does not make me a conspiracy theorists. Take a moment and understand that I have the right to disagree with what you are saying, and that doesn't make my opinion any less valid then yours. It just makes it unpopular.

But in the end Israel has a right to defend itself, of course.
Gee... Mighty caucasion of you.

What the hell does that mean exactly? That is a mighty assumption you are making.

But I think they have to learn the difference between defence and scaled attack against a country it frankly doesn't even like...
No. YOU do.

No, I don't.

I for one am tired of hearing all about the poor Israeli's and their persecution.
So?

I am tired of it being used as an excuse for their outright disreguard of life and land.

Yes, it has happened in the past...
And continues to happen.

And they are perpetuating the same kind of vilification on another nation. That doesn't make them better, if anything, it makes them worse.

...but their current actions lend themselves to more terrorists attacks, or scaled attacks from neighbouring countries because the Israeli's are living under the misguided notion that 'might is right'.
They are living under the notion that they have a right to exist and live in peace, safe from the attacks of people who want to murder ALL of them.

Yes, Israel should be able to be free of attacks. But who cares about the people they are killing. Very narrow minded perception of the events if you ask me.

Considering their past, you would think they wouldn't be so ready to engage, and yet, they are engaging gleefully.
Your "gleeful" comment is @$$inine, so I wont bother with it.
As regards their past, that's EXACTLY why they know they have to defend themselves NOW.

Their past is their past, and they should learn from it, not perpetuate it. It's a damned sad thing when people think that what happened in the past gives them a right to continue the same violence and visit it on others as they are.

Now, I am not asking anyone to agree with my opinion, but I like everyone else here should be visited with the same curtosy that you expect with your statements. Or is that too much to ask?

[terrestrial_man]

Has anyone taken the time to check out the link I left earlier to the Angry Arab blogspot? If you did you might begin to understand what is happening in the area between Israel and Hezbollah (don't ask me to spell this right!).
The use of the kidnapping of 2 Israelis (soldiers) as an excuse for conducting war against Lebanon is WRONG!
First off Hezbollah has been trying unsuccessfully to negotiate the release of members of this group being held by Israel but to no avail. Hezbollah had stated that they would take whatever action necessary to secure the release of their people. The government of Israel already knew what this implied. To me the government of Israel set up Hezbollah in order to conduct this genocide against them without regard to how many innocent people including children would be killed. In fact Israel really does not care about how many Arabs are killed as they have refused to provide information to Lebanon on where the mines are in southern Lebanon that are claiming the lives of children. Israel is a murderer of children and is acting as a racist in the doing.
What shocks me is that our President approves of what Israel is doing. This is perhaps the greatest atrocity of all!
Bush claims to be a Christian. He even attends a christian church. I wonder just what Christ would think as I never once read where Jesus condoned violence for violence!
It is apparent that what is happening here is the display of hyprocisy and the destruction of the word and work of Christianity. Can you see what I mean?
This crisis says much more than we realize and contrary to what one post infers that the President of Iran is manipulating the situation, far from it. Currently the USA and Iran are involved in some mutual agreements and anything that would weaken or destroy those agreements is not in the interest of either! Iran wants stability in the region and an end to Zionism (which is probably similar to ultra-nationalism and may be illustrated by those who would like Israel to have the borders as existed during the reign of Solomon-though I am surmising in this regard.)
However, as mentioned earlier, trying to get at the truth through the media is impossible when that media is controlled by special interests who foot the advertising bill and thereby support the media! So again, here is the link to the Angry Arab. Read what he has to say. The images are horrid but make the strongest statement possible that this is an atrocity that needs to end now. Israel is only making this matter so much more difficult. At some point the pendulum will swing in the other direction.
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

[kmiller1610]

They are not just targetting criminals, actually they have targeted areas which do not, nor have they ever, housed Hezballah.

Please provide some proof if it's possible. Not that you MUST have proof. I think a lot of things based on my assumptions, but I like to learn. What have you got?

[kmiller1610]

Has anyone taken the time to check out the link I left earlier to the Angry Arab blogspot?

Blogs are not a reliable source of information. If any of the bloggers are quoting reliable sources, please reference them.

[Pharaoh Atem]

BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Rockets struck Haifa and other Israeli towns in a fresh wave of attacks from Lebanon on Friday, Israeli officials said.

Ten people were hurt in the port city of Haifa and Hezbollah rockets also hit the towns of Meron, Safed, Yiron, and Avivim, Israeli medical officials said.

Israel also launched new military strikes inside Lebanon on the 10th day of violence since Hezbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...ast/index.html

[Deevil]

Please provide some proof if it's possible. Not that you MUST have proof. I think a lot of things based on my assumptions, but I like to learn. What have you got?

Many of the Christian cities that they have recently started to attack (including a distruction of a church which kind of annoys me, I hate it when religious places are targeted, but that's my own personal thing) are not Hezballah regions, nor have they ever been. Frankly Hezballah doesn't care for those regions at all. Nor do they have any stakes in those regions because Hezballah is an Islamic organisation, and hell, it's a political party as well. Christian settlements will have no ties with the Hezbollah because they have different wants then the Islamics.

Also, I think often our opinions are born of a little fact, a little of our own moralities and perceptions and a lot of our experience and environment, so it's to be expected that growing up in different circumstances our opinions on this are going to differ in extreme ways at times. It has too, doesn't it?

PS. I do agree blogs aren't the best source of information at times, but it can help one gain a different perspective, which isn't all bad.

[terrestrial_man]

Maybe in America, blogs are BS but generalizations truth do not make!
I provided the link.
There are several Arabic media links available as well.

Here is one by an esteemed journalist. I have no idea what his opinion is in these matters but here is a link
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/

[jenks]

May I ask why it matters what he is?

Because if he's American he's most likely getting his information from the media in the US.

[rarocks24]

Because if he's American he's most likely getting his information from the media in the US.

Which gets it's information from the Associated Press, which is Worldwide.

[gotealc]

I'm so surprised by the blindness some of you people have. This whole thing started because, yes, Israel wouldn't give back some of their prisoners to Hezbollah. But why in the world do you think that Israel would give up these prisoners, oh wait i mean TERRORISTS! After the years Israel has put up with the terrorism form Hezbollah in the north and Hamas in the south i'm surprised that it's taken them this long to finally fight back.

I think it's sad that so many Lebonese civilians have died, but don't be angry at Israel be angry at Hezbollah for hiding their weapons where civilians live. Hezbollah doesn't care about their people, they don't care how many children die and that's why they hide their weapons in civilian ares. Hezbollah has to be taken out along with all other islamic terrorist groups. They believe (like the Ori) that if you don't belive in our religion then you must die. They're too dangerous to be around anymore. You can't play nicey nice with these people because they don't negociate, they murder anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. i comend our president for supporting Israel and i do too.

[uknesvuinng]

Many of the Christian cities that they have recently started to attack (including a distruction of a church which kind of annoys me, I hate it when religious places are targeted, but that's my own personal thing) are not Hezballah regions, nor have they ever been. Frankly Hezballah doesn't care for those regions at all. Nor do they have any stakes in those regions because Hezballah is an Islamic organisation, and hell, it's a political party as well. Christian settlements will have no ties with the Hezbollah because they have different wants then the Islamics.

Also, I think often our opinions are born of a little fact, a little of our own moralities and perceptions and a lot of our experience and environment, so it's to be expected that growing up in different circumstances our opinions on this are going to differ in extreme ways at times. It has too, doesn't it?

PS. I do agree blogs aren't the best source of information at times, but it can help one gain a different perspective, which isn't all bad.

Could you provide links to information regarding these attack on non-Hezbollah areas? Also, some links to the conflicting reports that say Israel made the first border incursion would be nice. I've heard nothing of either of these things.

[rarocks24]

@Gotealc,

Terrorism is something that you can fight, but will never end. It's an ideology, and anybody who believes a certain thing could cause it. Fighting Hamas and Hezbollah, capturing their leaders, destroying a lot of the "military" tech such as the Katushas are really all they can do. They can't destroy Hezbollah. Nor can America destroy Al Qaeida, but it can certainly limit the amount of damage it does by forcing the organization to hit non-critical targets.

Do I support Israel's right to defend itself and damage Hezbollah and Hamas, yes. Do I think Israel is going about it the wrong way, who are we to judge how another country defends itself? The only time we should care is if they ask for help.

Do I want a fullscale invasion of Lebanon, no. This war is a very difficult thing because no one wants **** to hit the fan, but with the current situation, Israel, and the U.S. and any other country for that matter involved with the region, must be cautious to prevent this from escalating. We certainly don't want WW3.