The Israel/Lebanon situation

[DysfunctionalVeteran]

There are people that hear Whoopi Goldberg get up and say Communism is great and immediately become good little marxists.

Hey, I like Whoopi!

I also identify myself as a Neo-Conservative Libertarian Communist.

As such I am prepared to say that I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who actually understand any of those three philosophies; and that's WHILE I'm picking my nose.


You're right about the media of course, but we have to keep in mind that the object of ALL programming, including news, is to keep people in front of the boob tube so that advertisers can play commericals in front of them.


The point is though, and I say this as someone who listens to BOTH Fox News and NPR; that anyone who wants to get legitimate information from the media CAN.

The problem is that most people, my Mother for instance; are too lazy and disinterested. That makes them susceptible to any clever sounding nonsense that comes along.

[AGateFan]

Hey, I like Whoopi!

I also identify myself as a Neo-Conservative Libertarian Communist.

As such I am prepared to say that I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who actually understand any of those three philosophies; and that's WHILE I'm picking my nose.


You're right about the media of course, but we have to keep in mind that the object of ALL programming, including news, is to keep people in front of the boob tube so that advertisers can play commericals in front of them.


The point is though, and I say this as someone who listens to BOTH Fox News and NPR; that anyone who wants to get legitimate information from the media CAN.

The problem is that most people, my Mother for instance; are too lazy and disinterested. That makes them susceptible to any clever sounding nonsense that comes along.

And repetition, repetition, repetition.

Say something often enough and people start beleiving it. Especially if you can get someone famous and "cool" to say it.

[rarocks24]

And repetition, repetition, repetition.

Say something often enough and people start beleiving it. Especially if you can get someone famous and "cool" to say it.

Like Chevy Chase calling Fidel Castro a great guy despite the fact that Cubans were better off under Batiste than Fidel? Cuba had a thriving industry, people were able to travel throughout the country, businesses (mom and pop, corporations, etc) were great, and then Fidel comes along and destroys everything claiming that everyone's "better off".

No one's allowed to see the real Cuba, and those that did, were thanks to the courageous few with Real Cuba and other resistance and anti-Fidel movements. What makes me sick is that everytime I go to Miami, I fall asleep knowing that just 120, 130 mi away, people are in hospitals walking in their own urine and feces, living in shanty towns throughout Castro's Cuba while the Communist elite get to live the lives of luxury.

I absolutely beyond absolutely hope that any American would support the removal of Castro.

Sorry for being OT, but Cuba is a very touchy subject for me. It doesn't feel right knowing that America just tolerates a Communist nation so close to it.

[DysfunctionalVeteran]

Sorry for being OT, but Cuba is a very touchy subject for me. It doesn't feel right knowing that America just tolerates a Communist nation so close to it.

Well Jack Kennedy blew that when he pulled the Close Air Support.

[rarocks24]

Well Jack Kennedy blew that when he pulled the Close Air Support.

John Kennedy.

That above anything royally pisses me off. He promised military support for those fighting against Fidel, and yet he decided not to. Hell, we could have saved ourselves from the Cuban Missile Crisis along with preventing Che Guevera from causing so much difficulty and Civil War in S. America.

[Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime]

Sorry for being OT, but Cuba is a very touchy subject for me. It doesn't feel right knowing that America just tolerates a Communist nation so close to it.

Dictators and human rights abuses aside, what difference does it make if there is a communist country that close to us?

Communism is a political ideology that seeks to establish a future classless, stateless social organization based upon common ownership of the means of production. It can be classified as a branch of the broader socialist movement. Communism also refers to a variety of political movements which claim the establishment of such a social organization as their ultimate goal.

There are many types of communism.

I can understand objecting to dictatorships and human rights abuses.
I don't understand why you find communism so intolerable.
And what do you think America is supposed to do about the idealogies adopted by foreign nations?

[rarocks24]

Dictators and human rights abuses aside, what difference does it make if there is a communist country that close to us?

There are many types of communism.

I can understand objecting to dictatorships and human rights abuses.
I don't understand why you find communism so intolerable.
And what do you think America is supposed to do about the idealogies adopted by foreign nations?

I don't think I said I felt Communism intolerable, merely that given the population, types of beliefs, etc, that Communism wouldn't work in large scale societies.

And as for deciding about what's best for another country, I spent every single summer in my life in Miami, around Cubans. Cubans who would rather see Fidel hung than to see the man pass away. Cubans who have come here for freedom since they can't get that from their own government. The pain that those said Cubans whom I personally know have relatives in a virtual hell since Fidel took power go through...

It's not fair for any of them. So yes, there are other reasons, personal reason as well.

[Deevil]

Ya know, I don't think Israel are the 'Good Guys here', they are acting as terrorists right now (and yes, this is an unpopular opinion, but unpopular doesn't = uneducated, just for future reference).

They are attacking areas if Lebanon that are not Hezballah, and are distroying others. Add to this, there are many mixed reports as to who even started this conflict. And considering I do not take Israel's word as gosbel (nor do I take Lebanon), I think it's equally as likely that Israel created an excuse to attack. But in the end Israel has a right to defend itself, of course. But I think they have to learn the difference between defence and scaled attack against a country it frankly doesn't even like...

I for one am tired of hearing all about the poor Israeli's and their persecution. Yes, it has happened in the past, but their current actions lend themselves to more terrorists attacks, or scaled attacks from neighbouring countries because the Israeli's are living under the misguided notion that 'might is right'.

Considering their past, you would think they wouldn't be so ready to engage, and yet, they are engaging gleefully.

[rarocks24]

Considering their past, you would think they wouldn't be so ready to engage, and yet, they are engaging gleefully.

First, you don't know they are going to war "gleefully". Going to war is something that isn't "gleeful". Given the circumstances that have happened during the past ten, fifteen years, the fact that it has come down to this is rather amazing.

As for striking against Hezbollah in Lebanon, whilst I sympathise with those on all sides for what is happening, this stuff happens. Israel has tried to defend it's borders and prevent terrorist attacks, and it has failed, for a very long time. Israel feels that attacking Hezbollah is the best option to them, particularly when your enemy has the might to engage in war with you anyways, after swearing to wipe you out, considering you nothing but a cancer.

This whole thing is a stunt though, and Israel and Lebanon, Hezbollah and Hamas are merely being puppeted. The puppeteer, Achmoud Amadinejehad.

There's also the circumstance that we can't go by what the media says because of what goes on. The media can only report what they know. To say something else didn't happen during that time period between the two parties is rather inconclusive, as something could have happened, and I maintain it was this that caused Israel to go to war.

[Deevil]

And I disagree, I think Israel were more then gleeful to attack Lebanon, and cinsidering they are attacking areas which have never housed Hezballa, I question what they are doing very much.

Frankly, Israel is not an innocent victim here, and it gets tiresome to hear it all the time. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but that doesn't bother me. I would rather stand up and say Israel are acting like terrorists and bullies, then to meekly agree with them even though I don't.

And also, I don't think any country has any right to invade and attack just because a small subsection is acting out. There are diplomatic solutions, many of which Israel refuses because they have decided it's their job to liberate... It isn't.

[Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime]

I don't think I said I felt Communism intolerable, merely that given the population, types of beliefs, etc, that Communism wouldn't work in large scale societies.

Okay, but this is what you said.

Sorry for being OT, but Cuba is a very touchy subject for me. It doesn't feel right knowing that America just tolerates a Communist nation so close to it.

It sounded like you were using Communism as a reason for action against Cuba.

My point was simply that the supposed or practiced political idealogy isn't a reason to intervene in a foreign nation.

But I apparently misunderstood you, so nevermind.

And as for deciding about what's best for another country, I spent every single summer in my life in Miami, around Cubans. Cubans who would rather see Fidel hung than to see the man pass away. Cubans who have come here for freedom since they can't get that from their own government. The pain that those said Cubans whom I personally know have relatives in a virtual hell since Fidel took power go through...

It's not fair for any of them. So yes, there are other reasons, personal reason as well.

Understood. Once again, I'd rather focus on such points as you have just made, than focus on political labels like communism, etc.

[jenks]

The Hezbollah shouldn't have kidnapped the Israeli
soldiers in the first place. They apparently didn't take the
time to consider that this might be considered a hostile
act to the Israelis.

Hezbollah didn't.

[jenks]

And I cannot understand how any intelligent, educated person with ANY grasp of geopolitics and history could think that Israel is anything BUT "The Good Guys".

Are you American?

[rarocks24]

Are you American?

May I ask why it matters what he is?

[kmiller1610]

I'm going to throw in an entirely irrational and religious opinion.

The wealth and success of the United States is, in my delusional, passionate and faith based opinion, tied to our relationship to Isreal and to our Judeo-Christian heritage. We remain a nation that honors those traditions and commitments.

Isreal is a tiny little country surrounded by its enemies. Those enemies have sworn to annihilate them. Those enemies (particularly Iran) are now trying to terrorize Israel and body counts and "proportion" be damned. Israel has given up land to sue for peace and their enemies don't want it. Time for total war. They don't want peace? Then wipe them out.

And all you PC Chamberlins can just re-read your history books. You do not want to be on the wrong side in this one, believe me.