General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[Lunar]

This post contains some very mild spoilers for S9.
*
*
*
*
*
*
The thing that I liked about Sam and Jack was, for me, it started out of nothing. It wasn't scripted, it was the chemistry between the two actors that really started the ball rolling. *Later* it became a plot device, later still it became a much over-used plot device...
The Daniel/Vala angle seems to be *really* being pushed in the pre-season interviews. I mean, even Dan Shea has remarked upon it! I'm in agreement with Shadow about using ship as a crutch, and not knowing what else to do with the new characters rather than have them in relationships with each other/ existing characters.
I dunno, the idea of Daniel/Vala is just... well, I don't like it particularly. It was always impossible for S/J because of their position on the team... how is it different for D/V?? Aside from the fact that the frat regs don't apply to them...
I'm scared that Stargate is going to go down the cliched Sci-fi route. Vala's costuming in the pics we've seen so far is not exactly helping with that fear, and the fact that it seems inevitable her and Daniel are going to be paired up isn't either. Let her stand alone for a while, let the ship grow naturally... don't ram it down our throats by tying the two characters together for an ep!!
And of course, Stargate has never been a great show for RST writing. UST I think they do well, very well, but RST seems shockingly poor in comparison. Look at how bad S/J got...
I didn't like PU very much, didn't like Vala very much and didn't really see any chemistry between her and Daniel. But... maybe she'll grow on me. I can't say until I watch the new season. But I'd like to see her develop alone, not have all her development tied to other characters...
S/J ship I liked because they were still very much seperate identities. I worry that Vala will become 'Danny's bird' and not have a lot else to do then kick bad-guy butt in skimpy costumes.

[Purpleyin]

OK, I've already grumbled about this on a couple of threads, but it's really getting under my skin. Would someone please explain to me the point of dehumanizing the characters to the point where you randomly mash their names together into one tacky, tasteless combination? McWeir? Sheyla? WTF happened to McKay/Weir or Shep/Teyla? You have Sam/Jack, Daniel/Janet, Jack/Daniel... why the hell take away the dignity of two INDIVIDUAL characters and try to force them into one? Are people really that incredibly lazy that they can't take the extra time out to type out some extra letters? It seems so... blatantly ridiculous. Like something a preteen would dream up (meaning no offense to any intelligent preteens out there). I keep picturing pink, fuzzy diaries all covered with sparkles and pink bedrooms all done up with pillows and stuffed animals and frills and canopies.

I'm not inclined to ship, myself, but when I see one of those horrible name combinations it makes me even LESS inclined to consider the possibility because I can't fathom degrading myself to that level and degrading the characters as well.

Granted, that's my opinion and I'm sure people who use that terminology don't see it the way I do, but I'm curious as to WHY people do it? And why only on Atlantis? Why not O'Carter and Fraison and Jackneill and Harrimond? What did the Atlanteans ever do to be treated like that?

Hmm. Well Knowing the person who came up with 'McWeir' I'm sure it started off as a joke, and it makes me laugh sometimes so I'm don't tend to mind it as much, shows shippers aren't deadly serious. There are a few Weir/Mckay shippers are working on a total piss take called "The adventures of Sheyla McWeir" as well.

However, I'm trying to move away from it because as there appear more ships these combinations are turning up. McWeir, McShep sound okay to me - make me think of McDonalds but that's not always bad, is probably what makes me laugh. Even Sheyla has a ring to it, even though I'm not keen on the ship nor the name so much. I can put up with these combinations, though I'm starting to wish maybe people would use them less frequently.

But it's really going too far now (arguably existing before was too far...) - I've seen suggestions of the names of newer ships such as Weyla, Feyla, Teykay, McGrodin. They make me cringe - sure they're unique but I'm starting to think if people want to save typing they should write T/W, F/T, M/T, M/G etc. It would save people's sanity just to do that. I'm glad that so far the newest ship for atlantis Weir/Beckett has escaped the fate - I hate to think what combination would come out of that.

[Tucker Case]

Given their history with Sam/Jack and the show in general, do you think this is a good idea or is it another disaster waiting to happen? Do you want to see more ship on the show? Or is it hard to say without actually seeing the characters?

It's hard to say, not only without seeing the characters, but also without having seen how TPTB go about ship-building with characters they're actually able (and willing) to write and present as a couple.

They couldn't do that with Jack and Sam. To the extent that they were shipped at all by the writers, it was always on the sly, bogged down in character "outs" and ambiguities and inferred preferential treatment. Characters like Pete

Spoiler:

and Kerry were introduced as supposed "obstacles" so that the mere removal of these contrivances would feel like progress when Jack and Sam themselves were no further ahead than they were before Pete and Kerry came along in the first place.

The ship felt "ham-fisted" because it was wedged into circumstances it had no business being because it was in those circumstances - usually tense and extreme - that it could best be excused, they hoped, or if not, then interpreted as something else, and the furtive *nudge-nudge*, "Who, us? Nothing to see here, nothing we could get in trouble for *whistles* *tries to look innocent*" nature of it all made those scenes awkward and thus intrusive.

A quick, open and obvious kiss in an appropriate moment would have felt far less ham-fisted than those long stares, clumsy silences, gauzy, soft-focus shots with the music swelling and the action frozen in implied-ship limbo long enough for everyone to clue in. (Okay, bit of an overstatement, the gist being that a single small but overt gesture weighs the plot down far less than any great honking heap of subtle "clues.").

The "disaster" of Jack and Sam is what comes from the writers' shipping a couple they were never prepared to actually write.

It could be a quite different ballgame with characters they are prepared to write openly for.

That said, it'd be nice to have a choice.

I think the fact that they're building ship up from the "ground floor" with the new characters is a very bad sign.

This is what rankles me. With

Spoiler:

the "romantic history" already conveniently established for Mitchell and Lam, and

Daniel and Vala looking as inevitable as rain on Eeyore's birthday, it seems like they've swung too far in the opposite direction.

Better, I suppose, to know what the waters will be like going into the season than to get broadsided by the ship later, but if years of soap and related-shippy-primetime television watching have taught me anything, it's that it rarely - and I mean rarely, we're talking virtually never - works when two characters are introduced to an ongoing series as a pre-fab couple, and it's extremely hit and miss when one new character is brought on as an existing character's "intended."

Daniel has eight years of single-identity building behind him, but the others? Geez, it'd be nice if they could at least get half a season to be themselves before they become half of something else.

I'm not categorically opposed to "ship," in priniciple (I tend to like it more often than not), I haven't hated every little ship they've sailed on this show and I'm choosing to remain open about it rather than allow it to put a damper on things before its time; but the track record here still isn't great and this is, without question, the one aspect of the new season I am most on my guard about.

In the interest of ending on an "up" note, I'm relieved, at least, to see that they're

Spoiler:

sidestepping the painfully obvious route of trying to recreate John/Aeryn or cash in on Mr. & Mrs. Shanks by pairing Mitchell/Vala and Daniel/Carolyn.

If nothing else, I can always say, "It could have been worse."

TC

[yasureubetcha]

Personally, I was looking forward to Jack's exodous as a fresh start. With him gone, hopefully Sam will be considered unavailable and not paired with someone new. Unfortunately, new characters probably mean the writers will try to fill that lack with all kinds of new potential pairings for 'ship-of-the-week. I'm sick of 'shippy undertones to everything, and would not mind in the slightest if I never saw a 'ship-centric episode again. An alien attraction is one thing, an impossible crush is another (both acceptable to me because they are always subtexts of the plot and not the plot itself.) However, if I never see another 'ship, or even the potential for a 'ship, between regulars, I will be pleased.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like that will happen in Season 9.

[Shipperahoy]

Some Minor Spoilers for Season 9

Spoiler:

Honestly, when I first heard that Cameron Mitchell and the the new doctor have a romantic history the first thing I did was groan aloud. Then bang my head on the desk a couple of times. Contrary to my screen name I'm not even really a shipper anymore. Moebius pretty much wrecked the last of it for me. All I wanted was for them to definitively say "Yes, Sam and Jack are together" or "No, Sam and Jack are not together" so that there could be a resolution before RDA left the show. Instead, we got a lot of AU smooching. So given their inability to write any kind of open ship in the past I really don't want to see more of their subtle undertones and more fighting between the fans about whether their's ship or not and whether it's canon or not. As far as Daniel and Vala go I find them pretty amusing so I remain cautiously optimistic.

[Madeleine]

I'd be happy to take a rather nervous Wait And See line if they were just going to ship Lam & Mitchell. But from what I hear

Spoiler:

they're going to ex-ship them. Now this could be okay but it might be all that there is for character development for Lam (Mitchell being a more major character will probably not suffer that fate) and it could be terribly corny - all just like regular ship in fact. But an ex-ship might have the added drawback of being all that there is as character backstory for Lam. So for me this is a *very* nervous Wait And See thing.

If it's as bad as my worst fears then I'll just have to be glad that Ms Doig is in only a few eps - but I really don't want to be thinking like that cos she seems like a nice person and I want her character to be successful.

My current favourite ship, btw, is Mr Incredible and Elastigirl. Seriously. Those two are super together (no pun intended.)

[Tucker Case]

I'd be happy to take a rather nervous Wait And See line if they were just going to ship Lam & Mitchell...

I wish I knew what the rationale behind the

Spoiler:

"ex-shipping" is. If it's an end-run around whatever regs might apply or the doctor-patient issue - "Oops! Too late! Already happened!" - or, as you suggest, what counts as backstory, full stop, for Carolyn, then no thank-you. If they use it, however, to create the same kind of sweet tension they managed to deliver between Daniel and Sarah in 'The Curse,' and build from there, then we might be on to something.

Wait, see, hope for the best because I, too, wish to see Lexa find a home here.

My current favourite ship, btw, is Mr Incredible and Elastigirl. Seriously.

Not laughing. I shipped Marlin and Dory in 'Finding Nemo.'

TC

[majorsal]

Some Minor Spoilers for Season 9

Spoiler:

Honestly, when I first heard that Cameron Mitchell and the the new doctor have a romantic history the first thing I did was groan aloud. Then bang my head on the desk a couple of times. Contrary to my screen name I'm not even really a shipper anymore. Moebius pretty much wrecked the last of it for me. All I wanted was for them to definitively say "Yes, Sam and Jack are together" or "No, Sam and Jack are not together" so that there could be a resolution before RDA left the show. Instead, we got a lot of AU smooching. So given their inability to write any kind of open ship in the past I really don't want to see more of their subtle undertones and more fighting between the fans about whether their's ship or not and whether it's canon or not. As far as Daniel and Vala go I find them pretty amusing so I remain cautiously optimistic.

i'm still a HUGE sam/jack shipper, but with all the crap that went on in the 7th and 8th seasons, i'm also a pretty burnt out fan. i really don't care if they ship any other couples together, because i really don't care for the show anymore. i 'still' care about sam and ship, but the show's beat me up too much to be getting excited about the future. one of my two fave characters is gone (jack), and my other fave will be missing from the first five eps (sam). my fave storyline (s/j ship) is up in the air, and spoilers for sam is up in the air... i'm having a lot of trouble finding enthusiasm. so ship daniel and vala, or mitch and lam, or minnie and mickey... i'll let you know when i care.


sally

[SG1Poz]

i'm still a HUGE sam/jack shipper, but with all the crap that went on in the 7th and 8th seasons, i'm also a pretty burnt out fan. i really don't care if they ship any other couples together, because i really don't care for the show anymore. i 'still' care about sam and ship, but the show's beat me up too much to be getting excited about the future. one of my two fave characters is gone (jack), and my other fave will be missing from the first five eps (sam). my fave storyline (s/j ship) is up in the air, and spoilers for sam is up in the air... i'm having a lot of trouble finding enthusiasm. so ship daniel and vala, or mitch and lam, or minnie and mickey... i'll let you know when i care.


sally

\


Here! Here! Ditto, I agree and am sooo disappointed with the lack of real time resolution between Jack and Sam. I'm still sick about it. Poo Poo on you PTB!

Sg-1Neg

[keshou]

I'd be happy to take a rather nervous Wait And See line if they were just going to ship Lam & Mitchell. But from what I hear

Spoiler:

they're going to ex-ship them. Now this could be okay but it might be all that there is for character development for Lam (Mitchell being a more major character will probably not suffer that fate) and it could be terribly corny - all just like regular ship in fact. But an ex-ship might have the added drawback of being all that there is as character backstory for Lam. So for me this is a *very* nervous Wait And See thing.

If it's as bad as my worst fears then I'll just have to be glad that Ms Doig is in only a few eps - but I really don't want to be thinking like that cos she seems like a nice person and I want her character to be successful.

I groaned when I first heard this spoiler. I just don't have a lot of confidence in SG-1's "shipping" abilities. Heck I'm against the ship just because I'm afraid someone will create a "Clam" thread.

Spoiler:

If Lam and Cam are going to be ex-ships that exchange angsty glances across the room and are suppressing their still-smoldering sexual desires I'll pass. If Lam and Cam are simply friends now, such that Lam can call Cam on his BS or give him helpful advice on occasion because she knows him and knows what he's been thru, then it might be okay. Sarah and Daniel are a good comparison in that regard.

As for Daniel and Vala. I expect there's going to be banter and sexual attraction and arguments and Daniel may get outplayed once in awhile But I don't think they'll end up as a "ship". At least not in the traditional sense.

I have to say I think they've done a good job with the ship on Atlantis. No real canon couples but there's been some interesting relationships and interaction between a variety of pairings.

[shipper hannah]

I groaned when I first heard this spoiler. I just don't have a lot of confidence in SG-1's "shipping" abilities. Heck I'm against the ship just because I'm afraid someone will create a "Clam" thread.

Spoiler:

If Lam and Cam are going to be ex-ships that exchange angsty glances across the room and are suppressing their still-smoldering sexual desires I'll pass. If Lam and Cam are simply friends now, such that Lam can call Cam on his BS or give him helpful advice on occasion because she knows him and knows what he's been thru, then it might be okay. Sarah and Daniel are a good comparison in that regard.

As for Daniel and Vala. I expect there's going to be banter and sexual attraction and arguments and Daniel may get outplayed once in awhile But I don't think they'll end up as a "ship". At least not in the traditional sense.

I have to say I think they've done a good job with the ship on Atlantis. No real canon couples but there's been some interesting relationships and interaction between a variety of pairings.

amen to that, i dont think i could handle more ust...
that means another ship thread.. ...'clam thread'

[dannyluver]

I don't think I can handle having so many ships on the show. It will definitely get too confusing. As for you burnt out Sam/Jack shippers, I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU!!! come on!!!! Maybe if we get out our voodoo dolls of TPTB, then, we can make them put ship in! You are making me very sad.

[Shep'sSocks]

Oh, I'm sure it isn't meant to be malicious, but it makes the characters less human to me when they're reduced to some silly, ridiculous name combo. I don't mind jokey pairings, but I find things like "McWeir" (and similar combos)so completely lacking in dignity that I can't even consider it in a light-hearted way.

Now, if you want to talk McKay/Weir ship, I might be willing to listen, but McWeir?! Forget it. I may have a sense of humor but things like that are too stupid to me to be amusing.

Why do you think I bark everytime I hear the Sheppard/Teyla shippers call their little thing "Sheyla"? Cos it's the sort of thing you'd call a dopey long-haired german shepherd. It's just the silliest name. Woof!

[Lida]

After 8 long seasons of the "non-ship ship" between Jack and Sam, I solidly vote for NO SHIPS, other than ones that fly, float or are based on true friendSHIP.

[ShadowMaat]

Why do you think I bark everytime I hear the Sheppard/Teyla shippers call their little thing "Sheyla"? Cos it's the sort of thing you'd call a dopey long-haired german shepherd. It's just the silliest name. Woof!

Personally, I still can't shake the idea of "Sheyla" being a girl with... extra equipment. And McWeir sounds like a hamburger. Maybe other people find that amusing, but I'm not one of them.