General Ship ( Relationship) Discussion

[keshou]

What with episode 200 coming up I felt that it was time to dust off the ol' Ship Discussion thread. The reason being that I've read that there was something said by Amanda Tapping to the effect of "both sides will be happy" in regards to the Sam/Jack situation. My question being...is that even possible? I don't think so. I think at this point that most shippers won't be happy with anything less than an outright resolution and from my discussion with my anti-shipper friends it sounds as though they'll be cringing at even the slightest hint of ship. I would love to hear what others think.

Hey - I remember this old thread. From the "good old days".

I guess I don't see "both sides happy" as much as "both sides not being too offended". If there's a wedding it will be probably be AU. I think most of the shippers will be annoyed that it's AU but still enjoy them being pictured as bride and groom. The anti-shippers will be annoyed that they have to see it but less annoyed because it's AU. So not "happy", but not throwing things at the TV either.

I have a question for both sides.

Spoiler:

If they decided to go the route where Sam and Jack are already in a relationship and/or married but they had it offscreen, like they became an item somewhere between the end of season 8 and the beginning of season 9, and it was acknowledged onscreen in 200 but they left it at that (i.e. they didn't make a huge honking deal out of it)...would most people on both the pro and anti sides be able to be happy with something like that?

Eh....that wouldn't bother me that much but I'm not a violent "anti" as much as just disinterested in the ship. I only leaned towards the anti side when they kept dragging it on and on and I felt like it started to take away from the things I enjoyed in the show.

So a little selfish I guess but I do feel this is a storyline they just dropped and it would be nice to see it wrapped up.

[NotANumber]

Mmm...Ba'als. I just can't look at that man anymore without seeing him shirtless. Not that that is a bad thing for me. You couldn't really blame a girl for going in that direction. The man's dead sexy.

Spoiler:

Well, you never know - with all those Ba'als running around, there's a chance of seeing a shirtless one in canon.

[Shipperahoy]

Hey - I remember this old thread. From the "good old days".

Yes the good ol' days. When you could view the forum on dial-up without having to wait 20 minutes for the page to load and I had to walk 30 miles in the snow with no shoes... Of course I went the way of the future and invested in a cable connection seeing as how my "job" (which I put in quotation because job denotes payment and I've still never seen of the magic beans I was promised) is to keep an eye on the forum.

I guess I don't see "both sides happy" as much as "both sides not being too offended".

EXACTLY!!! If they had said that both sides wouldn't be storming the studio with torches and pitchforks then I might have been a little less suspicious but both sides happy? Not unless there's some serious mind control going on in 200 which come to think of it...there sure is a lot of wierd imagery.

[Shipperahoy]

Spoiler:

Well, you never know - with all those Ba'als running around, there's a chance of seeing a shirtless one in canon.

You're such a tease.

[Shipperahoy]

Nevermind the no torches and pitchfork thing. I just read the interview with Rob Cooper regarding 200. Maybe Amanda meant it would make both sides happy in backwards/opposite universe where happy means angry.

[Dani347]

For people who haven't seen the detailed account of 200th some of the ship spoilers

Spoiler:

Okay, first, Vala suggests the wedding. At first, there's Jack and Daniel standing together and Daniel says that "she'll show up, or people might think you and I...." So, first a snark at slashers. Then, they move over to Thor, for the Jack/Thor whatever the heck you call those people and finally Sam shows up. But, Martin stops Vala's fantasy with "Yeah, if we wanted to torture the audience on purpose!" So, they have it there, but it's all and also have someone saying it would be a bad idea. Trying to make both sides happy? Will it work? I'm just telling myself the whole thing is fake. And, Vala's idea?

Other pairings they take a crack at: Of course, MS plays Crichton to CB's Vala. And, in the teen SG1 sequence (which, Daniel, of all people suggests!) Teen Vala tells Daniel (aka, Whitebread????) she's pregnant, but doesn't say who the father is. I can't tell if the person spoiling wanted to keep that a surprise, or if the show doesn't actually say, but none of the real SG1 cares for that. Teen Teal'c is making out with another teen (apparently not a teen version of anyone we know), Sam calls Mitchell awesome and kisses him.

I've never understood the metaphor of fishing as ship, but possibly the fact that Mitchell and Vala are fishing together in a Moebius scene (with Jack quick to point out that they weren't even there) is a nod (or a crack at) to the fans who want to recapture the Farscape pairings between BB and CB.

So, altogether, it seems Jack/Sam, Daniel/Vala, Jack/Daniel, Sam/Mitchell, Mitchell/Vala, Jack/Thor all get played up a bit. Hey, if they're going to do it, why not have Teal'c/Vala pitched. Maybe teen playa Teal'c is Teen Vala's babbydaddy? I don't know. As something completely not real, I think it might be funny -oh, no! TPTB have gotten to me! I've been brainwashed! Also, as an anti J/S shipper, it's good for me that the "wedding" is fake, is only one of many pitches -except it is the last one, so some more weight than a few of the others, bleagh- and gets shut down, saying it'll torture the audience. And, as an anti D/V shipper, I'm glad that the only overt "pairing" between them, MS isn't even Daniel. And, anyone could possibly be the father of Teen Vala's baby.

But, Whitebread????

[Shipperahoy]

It's kind of funny how their "homage to the fans" always seems to come across more as them thumbing their noses at the lot of us.

[Dani347]

Maybe it doesn't bug me as much because they're not making fun of any of my ships. Since I currently don't have any (except the OTP of Sam/Kvasir).

They also makes cracks at other criticisms that fans have made, these were the only ship ones.

[STARGATE7777]

I can understand some people loving the Sam/Jack ship, others not liking it and others not caring. What I don't inderstand is how anyone could hate it to the point of it ruining the show for them. There are a lot of things on Stargate that I don't particularily enjoy: The Jaffa storylines, any of the Unus episodes, Daniel's personality transplant...but these are my opinion. I know others feel differently and that's OK. I can watch past seasons and fast forward through certain parts or not choose certain episodes. The thing that I most liked about seasons 1-8 was that there was something for every fan base. Diversity is what kept the show interesting and whether people want to admit it or not Sam and Jack are a part of that diversity.

[Dani347]

It's perfectly fine for me that others feel differently than I do. However, I fail to see what others feeling differently has to do with whether or not I hate something. This idea that you're supposed to temper your dislike of something because someone else might like it is totally foreign to me. And, frankly, the fact that Stargate has stuff to please other people really has no bearing on whether I like something. Seriously, and since I've said before that I'm a selfish tv viewer I might as well not pull any punches, I couldn't care less about the other fan bases. I couldn't care less about any other fan when it comes to what I like or hate. It's all about numero uno. Those other fan bases (even fans who agree with me) aren't sitting with me when I watch the show. Not that I'd care if they were. And, I'm not sharing my body as a lifeboat with them. And, who does it hurt (and it doesn't hurt me) if I hate J/S ship with every fiber of my being? Really, who?

And, diversity kept the show interesting for some. I'm sure there are fans who only cared about one thing, and didn't give a hoot about diversity, so J/S ship being a part of the diversity really wouldn't be a selling point for them.

[Jace021903]

I can understand some people loving the Sam/Jack ship, others not liking it and others not caring. What I don't inderstand is how anyone could hate it to the point of it ruining the show for them. There are a lot of things on Stargate that I don't particularily enjoy: The Jaffa storylines, any of the Unus episodes, Daniel's personality transplant...but these are my opinion. I know others feel differently and that's OK. I can watch past seasons and fast forward through certain parts or not choose certain episodes. The thing that I most liked about seasons 1-8 was that there was something for every fan base. Diversity is what kept the show interesting and whether people want to admit it or not Sam and Jack are a part of that diversity.

I've read messages from shippers who say that the entire series will be ruined for them if they don't get what they want. (shrug) It goes both ways. And that's fine.

People like what they like and have a pathological dislike for what they don't.

[Shipperahoy]

What I don't get is how people are always so baffled as to why others don't share their views or react so strongly to things that don't matter to them one way or another. Everybody is different. My online friends all like different aspects of the show. Even people who belong to the same subsection of fandom. Amongst my anti-shipper friends I have friends who don't like it because they see absolutely no chemistry between Sam and Jack, friends who don't like it because they think it takes something away from the show, friends who don't like it because they think it takes something away from the other characters on the show, friends who just straight out don't like romance with their sci-fi, and all of the above and I'm sure a few things that I'm missing. Even amongst my shipper friends we all have varying degrees of how much we like. I think it's cool to ask people why they feel the way that they do, that is the basis for a good discussion, but when people say it in such a way as to imply that there's just no earthly reason that people would feel such a way it just hinders discussion and fuels animosity between different groups of fans.

[keshou]

What I don't get is how people are always so baffled as to why others don't share their views or react so strongly to things that don't matter to them one way or another. Everybody is different. My online friends all like different aspects of the show. Even people who belong to the same subsection of fandom. Amongst my anti-shipper friends I have friends who don't like it because they see absolutely no chemistry between Sam and Jack, friends who don't like it because they think it takes something away from the show, friends who don't like it because they think it takes something away from the other characters on the show, friends who just straight out don't like romance with their sci-fi, and all of the above and I'm sure a few things that I'm missing. Even amongst my shipper friends we all have varying degrees of how much we like. I think it's cool to ask people why they feel the way that they do, that is the basis for a good discussion, but when people say it in such a way as to imply that there's just no earthly reason that people would feel such a way it just hinders discussion and fuels animosity between different groups of fans.

I have to admit I have trouble with the more extreme ends of either faction. Especially when it stops being fun and people start bashing characters or even TPTB. (Although I can sort of understand the strong feelings about Pete now because I'd really like Dee (on BSG) to just go away! )

But otherwise I think good discussions about different viewpoints are cool. Threads like this have been replaced by so many "pro" and "anti" threads that everyone's kind of gone to their little corners and stayed there.

[Shep'sSocks]

I've read messages from shippers who say that the entire series will be ruined for them if they don't get what they want. (shrug) It goes both ways. And that's fine.

People like what they like and have a pathological dislike for what they don't.

I've read messages from shippers where it's like they're owed something for the years of will they/won't they by TPTB. In the end, for some anti-shippers (and I include myself in this), it's almost as though it's not the ship we dislike but the those who think they're owed. Fortunately, these ones seem to be in a minority around GW.

[Easter Lily]

I've read messages from shippers who say that the entire series will be ruined for them if they don't get what they want. (shrug) It goes both ways. And that's fine.

People like what they like and have a pathological dislike for what they don't.

But that notion is so bizarre to me because I still believe that Stargate is a fun, scifi show in spite of all its flaws.
Which is probably why I was S/J ship blind until Divide and Conquer... I was too busy enjoying the humour and mythos to worry about romance.