Ship vs Ship ratios

[Zalenka]

An upgraded 304 could easily take on 2-3 Ori Warships. They just have to keep moving, and abuse their superior speed. In Unending, they spent most of their time running in a realitivly straight line. They didn't really use the weapons till they where surrounded and the shields where at ~20%. Really, 304s in battle should move a lot more, not stand there and act like a battleship. I'm pretty sure there almost as fast as the X-303, and acoriding to Carter in Prometheus, that could go almost 0.5 light speed. Yet they almost never use those Sublight engines =(

They might be able to move at those speeds in a straight line but if they start changing direction at those speeds then the crew will get thrown around. Rememeber that pilots of F302s feel G force. it's ok in a fighter where you're sat down and strapped in but on battleship where you aren't then you'll be knocked every which way.

The commanders of 2-3 Ori battlecruisers would have to be pretty useless to let 1 304 beat them. Two of them would be able to box in the 304 while the other chased it. That way if the 304 changed direction then another cruiser could take it on.

[Stewart5]

These are the approx scales I use...

Spoiler:

Awesome! Cheers man

[stargater1990]

I know a lot has been done on what it would take to beat a 304 and I feel that some of the previous work will feed into this thread.

I would not like the 304 debates to dominate this thread though and I hope that it covers other ships.

My question is this, how many of one type of ship would it take to take out another in a fair fight?

Here is an example. We have seen from Unending that 2 Ori motherships were capable of overpowering a 304. (even though the 304 escaped)

We have also seen from The last man that 3 Wraith hives can take out a 304 therefore 3 Wraith hives could go take on 2 wraith motherships. (although 4 would probably end up better off.)

In the fight with the Ori in Crusade numerous Ha'tak took on 4 Ori ships to no effect so it would take loads of Ha'tak to take out one ori ship and therefore 1hive.

So how many ha'tak would it take to beat a Hive?

I've decided to summarise what I have worked out as follows.

2 Ori > 1 304
3 Hives >= 1 304

But what of the other races? Goa'uld, Travellers (they could never make that many), The Ancients, the aliens from Grace, etc

actually, there were three ori ships to begin with and they took out 2, it was the third that almost did them in so it would really be more like 3 ori > 1 304.

[Zalenka]

actually, there were three ori ships to begin with and they took out 2, it was the third that almost did them in so it would really be more like 3 ori > 1 304.

The 304 didn't face all three at the same time. It escaped 1, but when it had to fight two it destroyed one and had to retreat again.

it did suffer damage prior to the fight, but it had only received a few shots and it was no where near been able to take on the last ship. It didn't even land a shot.

[wise one]

slight spoiler

even the deadalus or apollo with its asgard beams wouldnt make a big difference, the cruiser in search and rescue could gradually do its shields in, a single ori ship would still cause the effect to the ship in camelot battle, bringing their shields down to 50% or so even from search and rescue an ori secondard paulse weapons would bring it down much faster

[Hong3103]

They might be able to move at those speeds in a straight line but if they start changing direction at those speeds then the crew will get thrown around. Rememeber that pilots of F302s feel G force. it's ok in a fighter where you're sat down and strapped in but on battleship where you aren't then you'll be knocked every which way.

But the 304's are larger meaning they have more space for Internal Dampening Field Generators than the ones on the 302's. If it's a controlled movement or one that is controlled by the crew the computer should compensate for it right...? It's the unexpected movements like explosions or weapons fire from enemy ships that are unexpected that the computer can't predict and compensate for is why we see some of the crew members flailing about...

[stargater1990]

The 304 didn't face all three at the same time. It escaped 1, but when it had to fight two it destroyed one and had to retreat again.

it did suffer damage prior to the fight, but it had only received a few shots and it was no where near been able to take on the last ship. It didn't even land a shot.

the 304 did too face all three at the same time, what happened was they came out of hyperspace and all three attacked it which drained our shields, then the explosion futher depleted our shields but we managed to destroy one before we had to retreat, but then after our shileds only recharged a little bit we had to jump outta hyperspace and then we were attacked by the other 2 , we destroyed another one which makes 2 but since our shields were only at like 60% when we engaged the last 2 we were taken out by the third. so we pretty much destroyed 2 out of 3 ori ships with the 3rd one doing us in, so thats why a 403 can destroy 3 but is beaten by the 3rd.

[Zalenka]

the 304 did too face all three at the same time, what happened was they came out of hyperspace and all three attacked it which drained our shields, then the explosion futher depleted our shields but we managed to destroy one before we had to retreat, but then after our shileds only recharged a little bit we had to jump outta hyperspace and then we were attacked by the other 2 , we destroyed another one which makes 2 but since our shields were only at like 60% when we engaged the last 2 we were taken out by the third. so we pretty much destroyed 2 out of 3 ori ships with the 3rd one doing us in, so thats why a 403 can destroy 3 but is beaten by the 3rd.

Only one Ori ship attacked the Odyssey, the other two went to Asgard homeworld. It took on one ship and won and then later faced another two. Granted it was damaged from what had happened before but it never laid a finger on the third so it was totally out gunned in that situation. There'd be no way 3 Ori vs one 304 would result in everything been destroyed.

[Buba uognarf]

Its wasn't just a 304 it was the Odyssey it was fitted with all the best Asgard stuff and had a ZPM boosting its shields. A normal 304 wouldn't be able to take on more than 1 Ori mothership if that.

[Zalenka]

Its wasn't just a 304 it was the Odyssey it was fitted with all the best Asgard stuff and had a ZPM boosting its shields. A normal 304 wouldn't be able to take on more than 1 Ori mothership if that.

I know that. The ratios involving 304s have all been if the 304 had the Asgard stuff. The advantages of the ZPM were not clear at that point though as Thor said that the Asgard upgrades would not utilise the ZPM until they were fully integrated. The ZPM will of been used in the use of the time dilation field, but it is unclear if the ZPM was used to power it from the outset given Thor's earlier statement.

[Buba uognarf]

I know that. The ratios involving 304s have all been if the 304 had the Asgard stuff. The advantages of the ZPM were not clear at that point though as Thor said that the Asgard upgrades would not utilise the ZPM until they were fully integrated. The ZPM will of been used in the use of the time dilation field, but it is unclear if the ZPM was used to power it from the outset given Thor's earlier statement.

It was said the core would not infringe on the ships ZPM. What else would allow the shields to be so much more powerful? Other 304's clearly don't have shields that strong.

[Zalenka]

It was said the core would not infringe on the ships ZPM. What else would allow the shields to be so much more powerful? Other 304's clearly don't have shields that strong.

The Asgard upgrades, a superior design to the previous ones installed. Their design makes them so impervious even without ZPM power. I imagine the ZPM was only used to power the sields when the replicators modified the Odyssey in AOT.

[stargater1990]

Only one Ori ship attacked the Odyssey, the other two went to Asgard homeworld. It took on one ship and won and then later faced another two. Granted it was damaged from what had happened before but it never laid a finger on the third so it was totally out gunned in that situation. There'd be no way 3 Ori vs one 304 would result in everything been destroyed.

what i meant was that it would take 3 ori ships to possibly destroy a 304 because the 304 destroyed 2 ori ships, however the third proved to be too much and would have destroyed it had it not been for the time dialation field.

and if they actually fired on the ori ship as opposed to running from it and just letting it keep fireing on it and weakening their shields, they could have destroy that one ori ship in about 5 seconds of continuous fire and then moved onto the other two, and considering there far more manuverable and can take about 7-8 shots( roughly ) before their shields get down to 28% they could have easily destroyed the one more ship if they snuck up behind it and fired for about 5 more seconds and in that time the other ori ship would have gotten off maybe 5 shots because they really only get off like 1 shot a second, then we could have manuvered around to get the last one possibly, or the last one could have destroyed us. so technically, if the planet hadnt exploded and they actually fought by using their supperior manuverability as an advantage, they could easily destroy 2 ori ships and maybe the 3rd if they timed it right. either way, 2 ori ships wouldnt be superior to 1 304 provided they actually fought smartly and had their shields at full strength.

[Stewart5]

Its wasn't just a 304 it was the Odyssey it was fitted with all the best Asgard stuff and had a ZPM boosting its shields. A normal 304 wouldn't be able to take on more than 1 Ori mothership if that.

True, nut these ships are the upgraded awesome, not regular 304s. As proven in several episodes, don't send a 304 to do the job without the biggest boatload of upgrades, ever!

what i meant was that it would take 3 ori ships to possibly destroy a 304 because the 304 destroyed 2 ori ships, however the third proved to be too much and would have destroyed it had it not been for the time dialation field.

and if they actually fired on the ori ship as opposed to running from it and just letting it keep fireing on it and weakening their shields, they could have destroy that one ori ship in about 5 seconds of continuous fire and then moved onto the other two, and considering there far more manuverable and can take about 7-8 shots( roughly ) before their shields get down to 28% they could have easily destroyed the one more ship if they snuck up behind it and fired for about 5 more seconds and in that time the other ori ship would have gotten off maybe 5 shots because they really only get off like 1 shot a second, then we could have manuvered around to get the last one possibly, or the last one could have destroyed us. so technically, if the planet hadnt exploded and they actually fought by using their supperior manuverability as an advantage, they could easily destroy 2 ori ships and maybe the 3rd if they timed it right. either way, 2 ori ships wouldnt be superior to 1 304 provided they actually fought smartly and had their shields at full strength.

Assuming that the Ori are sitting still, firing in straight lines. They may be less manoueverable, but there are several of them. Whilst you are firing for 5 seconds on one, whioch is firing back, the others are flanking you and firing too........duh...................

[Buba uognarf]

The Asgard upgrades, a superior design to the previous ones installed. Their design makes them so impervious even without ZPM power. I imagine the ZPM was only used to power the sields when the replicators modified the Odyssey in AOT.

Without the power source to power them the upgrades would have been useless unless the shields were somehow designed to work in a way to counter Ori weapons without having the raw power to back it up. The bolded statment is speculation.

We've seen a 304 get taken to down by 3 Hive ships. Even if they started the battle knowing whats what the beam weapons were knocked off line really quickly at that point the 304 becomes a punch bag. We've seen a single Ori beam can pretty much disable a 304 without a ZPM, the deadalus or Apollo would be lucky to take on a single Ori mother ship IMO.