New Ship #The Last Man spoilers#

[Wraith_Boy]

Seems I'm one of the few who wouldn't like to see the pegasus ships get the upgrades. With a ship that can take out Ori ships the wraith would be a breeze and I don't see the Asurans fairing any better than the Ori ships.

The only 2 reasons it was able to destroy an Ori ship was it had a ZPM to boost the shield. While the weapons were ablke to get throyugh the Ori shields.

Therefore the instant way to render it useless & ineffective is to say the Asgard specifically designed it for use solely on Ori shields. Goa'uld, Asuran shields are all different, so the weapons is not as effective. It's really that easy! However the boys over at Bridge have shown that they don't really go in for the smart writing thing too often.

When looking at the pics of old Rodney. Then the name of the ep. I think Rodney may be the last man himself & comes back from the future with an uber advanced ship named 'Phoenix' to put them onto a different path before they get destroyed by the Wraith or Asurans. Think the exact same as the last 2 eps of Star Trek: Voyager (Endgame). I hoipe I'm way off, but for some reason after looking at those pics, I keep getting that feeling that's how it's all gonna pan out.

[MartianManhunter]

No offense, but I really hope that you're completely wrong. Its nothing against you but that just feels like its been done to death, and even though I would still watch the episode and (probably like) I feel like they can/should do better.

[randy23]

Therefore the instant way to render it useless & ineffective is to say the Asgard specifically designed it for use solely on Ori shields. Goa'uld, Asuran shields are all different, so the weapons is not as effective. It's really that easy! However the boys over at Bridge have shown that they don't really go in for the smart writing thing too often.

That be a stretch to believe that a base level Ha'tak, with no upgrades, could be capable of defending itself from Odyssey's weapons.

[IcyNeko]

Why is that a stretch? Our rail guns have yet to penetrate the shields of a hatak. We do a crapload of damage AFTER the shields are down, but if they're not, we don't do anything.

[wilson359]

I'd like it to be a Daedalus class but with a few design modifications. Like the following pic,

[Darien]

If unending technology was used agaisnt the wraith i worked out that the Wraith would be destroyed entirely by our current fleet of 3 deadalus class ships all upgraded in 6 hours battle time.

Not neceserraly. As others stated here, those Asgard beam weapons might have been designed to penetrate shields. Wriath ships don't have shields but they are very massively built and have the capability to regenerate. Those beam weapons might easily be much less effective against hives.

[freyr's mother]

Not neceserraly. As others stated here, those Asgard beam weapons might have been designed to penetrate shields. Wriath ships don't have shields but they are very massively built and have the capability to regenerate. Those beam weapons might easily be much less effective against hives.

It doesnt matter. Anything that can be built to destroy an ori warship after getting past its shields can make quick work of a hive or anything else for that matter.

[immhotep]

Exactly, ori shields can survive sustained firepower from a fleet of our most advanced ships, an Oniel, dozens of hataks, hundreds of missiles. A hive ship can be destroyed by our nukes (if they hit), and beam weapons are effective agaisnt hives, we have seen that. It takes 2/3 nukes to destroy a hive, now, even if they are gatebusters (which is unlikely) thats up to about 3 Tt of firepower, likely to be a fraction of that if they are conventional nukes.
Now if Asgard weapons can take down Ori shields which can sustain 10+ Terratons for firepower easily(Each hatak shot is 200 Mt, plus our nukes which again could be up to 800Gt each) then the asgard beam weapons could easily wipe out hive ships, in 1-3 shots per hive. We have a rate of fire of something like 20 pulses per minute. (we fired 6 in 20 seconds), now given that theoretically that means if each hive takes an average of 2 pulses to destroy, and there are 60 left in the galaxy, thats about 3 minutes firing time for the entire hive fleet to be destroyed. Now for manueering and destroying cruisers and accounting for beams hitting darts i would say 10 minutes battle time for the entire wraith to be destroyed in terms of space ships.

[s09119]

Exactly, ori shields can survive sustained firepower from a fleet of our most advanced ships, an Oniel, dozens of hataks, hundreds of missiles. A hive ship can be destroyed by our nukes (if they hit), and beam weapons are effective agaisnt hives, we have seen that. It takes 2/3 nukes to destroy a hive, now, even if they are gatebusters (which is unlikely) thats up to about 3 Tt of firepower, likely to be a fraction of that if they are conventional nukes.
Now if Asgard weapons can take down Ori shields which can sustain 10+ Terratons for firepower easily(Each hatak shot is 200 Mt, plus our nukes which again could be up to 800Gt each) then the asgard beam weapons could easily wipe out hive ships, in 1-3 shots per hive. We have a rate of fire of something like 20 pulses per minute. (we fired 6 in 20 seconds), now given that theoretically that means if each hive takes an average of 2 pulses to destroy, and there are 60 left in the galaxy, thats about 3 minutes firing time for the entire hive fleet to be destroyed. Now for manueering and destroying cruisers and accounting for beams hitting darts i would say 10 minutes battle time for the entire wraith to be destroyed in terms of space ships.

1.) In the "Camelot" battle, we had WAY less firepower than you're suggesting. First off, our combined attacks were spread out against 4 ships, so divide all your calculations by four.

Secondly, the rate of fire from the majority of Asgard/Jaffa/Earth ships was pitiful there, they ALL could've fired much faster.

Thirdly, we didn't fire "hundreds of missiles", the Korolev and Odyssey combined fired a maximum of one or two dozen, MAYBE three, judging by how fast they were firing.

And, lastly, there weren't "dozens of ha'tak". There were, actually, about a dozen. Check a screencap if you don't believe me.

2.) We know that an Ancient-designed satelltie specifically built to destroy Wraith ships can slice through a hive. Asgard beam weapons were, most likely, designed to combat Ori ships. And even if they weren't, Wraith amor has been shown to be the strongest in the Stargate universe.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

When looking at the pics of old Rodney. Then the name of the ep. I think Rodney may be the last man himself & comes back from the future with an uber advanced ship named 'Phoenix' to put them onto a different path before they get destroyed by the Wraith or Asurans. Think the exact same as the last 2 eps of Star Trek: Voyager (Endgame). I hoipe I'm way off, but for some reason after looking at those pics, I keep getting that feeling that's how it's all gonna pan out.

What's with the sandstorm in Atlantis then? I for one think its Shep who goes to the future and finds a future Mckay.

[immhotep]

Ok so a dozen hataks, thats 3 per ship, fighting for roughly 30seconds each, hataks have a RoF of hundreds of shots per minute, lets say 50 from each hatak hit the Ori ship. Now that 150x 200mt = 30,000 Mt's of firepower just from the hataks per ori ship, 120,000Mt of firepower from just 12 Hataks. See where im going with this. Now 27Gt's will destroy a stargate, we know that from Pegasus project, or should have destroyed a stargate, and was enough to destroy a hive ship because the nuke they beamed to the hive was calibrated to origionally destroy the gate.
Now If the 12 Hataks have a combined output of firepower of 120,000Mt, 10,000 each. Its something like 4 times as much power as was required to destroy a hive ship with a nuke. They are different kinds of weapons, i know that. But im saying. 27Gt is 27,000 Mt if my maths is correct. My point is, that if an Ori MS's shields can sustain more firepower than is required to destroy a hive ship even at is most basic function level, then any weapon designed to penetrate those shields is going to be an incredible powerful weapon. Yes the asgard may have develop a special kind of beam but as smart as they were, they are not the most "think outside the box" aliens, in fact they are more likely to just up the firepower, than to develop an entirely new weapon system. Now the other point about unending technology that people dont realise is that it may not have been designed to fight the Ori atall. We actually have no reference that those weapons were to be used against the Ori, they are more likely to have been used against the wraith considering the asgard spent alot of time in Pegasus on board the deadalus classes, must have learnt about the asurians and the wraith, we dont "know" but we can assume the Asgard could have been prepping to go to war with the wraith and not developing weapons to destroy the Ori.

[s09119]

Ok so a dozen hataks, thats 3 per ship, fighting for roughly 30seconds each, hataks have a RoF of hundreds of shots per minute, lets say 50 from each hatak hit the Ori ship. Now that 150x 200mt = 30,000 Mt's of firepower just from the hataks per ori ship, 120,000Mt of firepower from just 12 Hataks. See where im going with this. Now 27Gt's will destroy a stargate, we know that from Pegasus project, or should have destroyed a stargate, and was enough to destroy a hive ship because the nuke they beamed to the hive was calibrated to origionally destroy the gate.
Now If the 12 Hataks have a combined output of firepower of 120,000Mt, 10,000 each. Its something like 4 times as much power as was required to destroy a hive ship with a nuke. They are different kinds of weapons, i know that. But im saying. 27Gt is 27,000 Mt if my maths is correct. My point is, that if an Ori MS's shields can sustain more firepower than is required to destroy a hive ship even at is most basic function level, then any weapon designed to penetrate those shields is going to be an incredible powerful weapon. Yes the asgard may have develop a special kind of beam but as smart as they were, they are not the most "think outside the box" aliens, in fact they are more likely to just up the firepower, than to develop an entirely new weapon system. Now the other point about unending technology that people dont realise is that it may not have been designed to fight the Ori atall. We actually have no reference that those weapons were to be used against the Ori, they are more likely to have been used against the wraith considering the asgard spent alot of time in Pegasus on board the deadalus classes, must have learnt about the asurians and the wraith, we dont "know" but we can assume the Asgard could have been prepping to go to war with the wraith and not developing weapons to destroy the Ori.

Okay, I hate to join this bandwagon, but... could you PLEASE try and use spaces? It's getting hard for me to distinguish different ideas in there, no offense intended, immhotep.

Now, on topic: where are you getting the 100 shots per minute thing? We've NEVER seen them fire 100 shots period, so we don't know if it's even possible (the weapons may need to cool-down, we don't know).

Also, why can we assume the Asgard would go to war with the Wraith? A single Asgard, Hermiod, was onboard the Daedalus just to help them with the new upgrades it had recieved, not to inform the High Council about the Atlantis Expedition. I think it's highly unlikely (both show-wise and story-wise), that the Asgard were preparing to war against the Wraith, especially when their society is still so weak from the Replicator invasion.

[immhotep]

I used spaces, i just didnt paragraph and punctuate well enough. The Hataks in Reckoning, The Lost city and Camolot had rates of fire reaching that number. Hataks have between 12 and 16 energy turrets(depending on it's a 3 or 4 pronged hatak, 4 on each prong, 2 on top, 2 below), when the alkesh attacked the Hatak and tealc went all "need revenge" within 30 seconds each of the turrents fired several times at least on each pass. so 3 shots per turret every 15 seconds, 3x12 = 36, 36x4 = 144 shots per minute. you can divide that by 3, 1 shot per turret every 15 seconds and you still get 48 shots per minute. So the Rof isnt farfetted its just not used all the time.

[Lord batchi ball]

Okay, I hate to join this bandwagon, but... could you PLEASE try and use spaces? It's getting hard for me to distinguish different ideas in there, no offense intended, immhotep.

Now, on topic: where are you getting the 100 shots per minute thing? We've NEVER seen them fire 100 shots period, so we don't know if it's even possible (the weapons may need to cool-down, we don't know).

Also, why can we assume the Asgard would go to war with the Wraith? A single Asgard, Hermiod, was onboard the Daedalus just to help them with the new upgrades it had recieved, not to inform the High Council about the Atlantis Expedition. I think it's highly unlikely (both show-wise and story-wise), that the Asgard were preparing to war against the Wraith, especially when their society is still so weak from the Replicator invasion.

IDK if the Asgard were preparing for a war

but it does make sense that they would want to look after us and make sure we were using thier tech properly and using the Ancient city properly, and maybe we gave hermoid axcess to the Ancient database to see if there was a solution to there cloneing problem.

[talyn2k1]

Whats a "Microlight?"

Its a small light aeroplane.

Just thought I'd throw that one in there for a laugh

I believe that either we will not get the Asgard beams on Daedy/Oddy this season (we only know there will be some upgrades, not what) or the following will happen.

1. It will turn out the beams aren't really that strong unless they're being supplemented by the ZPM.
2. Some of their power has been sacrificed for the sake of getting them developed so quickly.
3. They were designed to work specifically against Ori shields and are therefore weaker/ineffective against Wraith armor.

Personally, I would be fine with either of these. They are all perfectly plausible and would all fit with established history.
1. ZPMs can boost pretty much anything, so it makes sense that they would be significantly weaker without one.
2. Our efforts at backward engineering are never quite as good as the original product and generally take a long time.
3. No real history to this one but it is still plausible in my opinion.

As it appears that the Phoenix will use pretty much the same set as the Daedalus (bar that Asgard console on the bridge), I think it will just be a pimped up 304.
And I like the idea of Rodney coming from the future, although it would be a nice twist to this kind of story to have him asking for our help rather than coming to save us.

EDIT: Removed reference to Wraith shields. Was on auto-pilot when I wrote that.