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**Vala_M** · 18 December 2007, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post

While I must admit that having a bald headed black man certainly does fit Ellis' description, I don't think it was him.

Firstly, the uniform was slightly different. Underneath the SGC patch, you could see a second patch (similar to the 1st Tactical patch worn by the Daedalus crew). Ellis never had this.

Secondly, the guy doesn't look to be Ellis.

While I do accept the possibility that it could be a stand in, I think a proper standin would need to be bald (unless Ellis grew hair). The guy's face looks wrong so I don't believe it's the Apollo.

However, I do not believe this is a new ship. There is a strong possibility that this is a redesigned ship.

Includes minor bits of ship detail from 'Ark of Truth'

Spoiler:

I don't think that is Ellis. And the diagnostic screens with the ship on it are too small of a resolution to tell properly but I really don't think that the Phoenix is going to be more than a modified 304. Plus, who's to say that they didn't redo the schematic screens like the SGC dialing computer changed in season 8.

Vala,

**SaberBlade** · 18 December 2007, 02:24 PM

Well it definitely doesn't look like Ellis, but a stand in is possible unless he's been spotted before on one of the other ships.

While the screens are too small, the design shown at the back of the bridge (not the one in that screenshot of "Ellis") does show that the ship to be very much different than before. There was a comparion image somewhere that showed the difference between a normal 304 and the ship design belived to be Phoenix, a design which the ship with "Ellis" shares.

This opens the possibility for;

Spoiler:

or maybe i'm just over thinking it and the ship is simply Phoenix, all 304's have been upgraded and it's not Ellis

**Vala_M** · 18 December 2007, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post

Well it definitely doesn't look like Ellis, but a stand in is possible unless he's been spotted before on one of the other ships.

While the screens are too small, the design shown at the back of the bridge (not the one in that screenshot of "Ellis") does show that the ship to be very much different than before. There was a comparion image somewhere that showed the difference between a normal 304 and the ship design belived to be Phoenix, a design which the ship with "Ellis" shares.

This opens the possibility for;

Spoiler:

or maybe i'm just over thinking it and the ship is simply Phoenix, all 304's have been upgraded and it's not Ellis

Why do people think that the other 304's are going to be changed? I really DOUBT it will happen, the Prometheus wasn't updated to look like the Daedalus inside OR outside, it won't be happening, and if it does, I will be surprised. The ship is called the PHOENIX not the Apollo modified.

Vala,

**Freekzilla** · 18 December 2007, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by immhotep View Post

Exactly, ori shields can survive sustained firepower from a fleet of our most advanced ships, an Oniel, dozens of hataks, hundreds of missiles. A hive ship can be destroyed by our nukes (if they hit), and beam weapons are effective agaisnt hives, we have seen that. It takes 2/3 nukes to destroy a hive, now, even if they are gatebusters (which is unlikely) thats up to about 3 Tt of firepower, likely to be a fraction of that if they are conventional nukes.
Now if Asgard weapons can take down Ori shields which can sustain 10+ Terratons for firepower easily(Each hatak shot is 200 Mt, plus our nukes which again could be up to 800Gt each) then the asgard beam weapons could easily wipe out hive ships, in 1-3 shots per hive. We have a rate of fire of something like 20 pulses per minute. (we fired 6 in 20 seconds), now given that theoretically that means if each hive takes an average of 2 pulses to destroy, and there are 60 left in the galaxy, thats about 3 minutes firing time for the entire hive fleet to be destroyed. Now for manueering and destroying cruisers and accounting for beams hitting darts i would say 10 minutes battle time for the entire wraith to be destroyed in terms of space ships.

OMG! Sorry, but this is just hilarious! A Hive survived a nuke hit in "No Man's Land", but a hive was destroyed when one (1) was beamed inside, not 2 or 3. And where in the world are you getting your figures on firepower from? When have they EVER said that any of our nukes is even remotely close to your 800Gt figure? Never, that's where. That's just plainly fanwank. Three teratons! Ha ha ha ha hah a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Good one! Furthermore, where do you get the 200MT figure for Goa'uld shots? Also, come on, you're dealing with a Wraith hive ship, not a Ori battleship. Two different things. Firstly, one is only between 1200-1800 meters long, and the other is something like 11km long. That's akin to stabbing a human with a pocket knife versus stabbing an elephant with one. Sure, it'll do a great deal of harm to a human, but between the elephant's tough skin and shear size, all you're going to do is make it mad. Then, like others have said, we have no way of knowing if the Asgard weapons that are on the Odyssey were designed specifically for use against the Ori or not. If they were, then they most likely won't be nearly as effective on the wraith. And technically speaking, I don't think the Odyssey "took down" the Ori shields per say, but rather destablized them enough to penetrate.

And the Phoenix is just a 304 with some modifications. Just check Mallozzi's blog and the pictures show a fairly normal 304 bridge with one exception, an Asgard control console. Best we can hope for is a few Asgard upgrades, otherwise, that's about it most likely.

**SaberBlade** · 18 December 2007, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Vala_M View Post

Why do people think that the other 304's are going to be changed? I really DOUBT it will happen, the Prometheus wasn't updated to look like the Daedalus inside OR outside, it won't be happening, and if it does, I will be surprised. The ship is called the PHOENIX not the Apollo modified.

Vala,

Then Ark of Truth will either use the same ship (unlikely I think) or another ship of the same design. Since it's too early for them to have built new ships, upgrading the old is possible.

**Vala_M** · 18 December 2007, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by Freekzilla View Post

OMG! Sorry, but this is just hilarious! A Hive survived a nuke hit in "No Man's Land", but a hive was destroyed when one (1) was beamed inside, not 2 or 3. And where in the world are you getting your figures on firepower from? When have they EVER said that any of our nukes is even remotely close to your 800Gt figure? Never, that's where. That's just plainly fanwank. Three teratons! Ha ha ha ha hah a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Good one! Furthermore, where do you get the 200MT figure for Goa'uld shots? Also, come on, you're dealing with a Wraith hive ship, not a Ori battleship. Two different things. Firstly, one is only between 1200-1800 meters long, and the other is something like 11km long. That's akin to stabbing a human with a pocket knife versus stabbing an elephant with one. Sure, it'll do a great deal of harm to a human, but between the elephant's tough skin and shear size, all you're going to do is make it mad. Then, like others have said, we have no way of knowing if the Asgard weapons that are on the Odyssey were designed specifically for use against the Ori or not. If they were, then they most likely won't be nearly as effective on the wraith. And technically speaking, I don't think the Odyssey "took down" the Ori shields per say, but rather destablized them enough to penetrate.

And the Phoenix is just a 304 with some modifications. Just check Mallozzi's blog and the pictures show a fairly normal 304 bridge with one exception, an Asgard control console. Best we can hope for is a few Asgard upgrades, otherwise, that's about it most likely.

Actually, there are two reasons why the hive wasn't destroyed in "No Man's Land"
1. The fact that it was a Mark III nuke and NOT a Mark VIII nuke (The latter were used in "The Seige" for totally destroying hives)
2. As many are always pointing out, a nuke is less effective outside the atmosphere rather than inside and since there is an atmosphere inside the ship, as well as the fact that you don't have to get through all that armor, it can be destroyed from the inside easily.

The fact about the Goa'uld blasts being 200 Megatons was stated in "There But For The Grace of god" by alternate Sam.

Vala,

**ha'tak_** · 19 December 2007, 05:45 AM

Spoiler:

**Darien** · 19 December 2007, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post

Then Ark of Truth will either use the same ship (unlikely I think) or another ship of the same design. Since it's too early for them to have built new ships, upgrading the old is possible.

As far as I know the Odyssey will be in AoT and the Phoenix will appear in SGA's season 4 finale, The Last Man. My guess would be that it's just another 304 with the latest asgard tech. I don't think they'll introduce a new class of ships. 304s are just fine especially with the asgard upgrades.

**fallenexile452** · 20 December 2007, 04:44 PM

It could be the odyssey gets nearly entirely destroyed in AoT and they rebuild it modifying it slightly to help get the most out of the asgard upgrades. hence the name 'phoenix' as in rising from the ashes of the odyssey. Just a bit of completely wild speculation.

**jonos101** · 20 December 2007, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by fallenexile452 View Post

It could be the odyssey gets nearly entirely destroyed in AoT and they rebuild it modifying it slightly to help get the most out of the asgard upgrades. hence the name 'phoenix' as in rising from the ashes of the odyssey. Just a bit of completely wild speculation.

i kinda like that idea but im sure the phoenix will just be another 304 with asgard upgrades and it definetly wont be a modifide apollo

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