'Visitation' (209) General Discussion

[jelgate]

I got the feeling they couldn't fully reconstruct a human at a physiological level (And, if Caine is to be believed, a "soul"-ly level). They can build planets and shuttles, but they suck at doing stuff to us. Way to go alien guys. I bet they were trying not to piss us off too, and any future negotiations are going to start with, "Hey, remember when you guys tried to help us out by reviving our guys, but they died anyway?"

"..."

"Well, this is off to an awkward start."

I doubt it would work like that. Its like if I try to save someone by giving CPR and fail. Its more likely that people are going to blame me for the person's death. They were already in trouble to begin with before I tried to help. Applying the Faith aliens, if we ever meet them it seems unlikely we are going to hold Caine and the others deaths against them because the Faith aliens did try to save them and were doomed without the aliens help anyway.

[MattSilver 3k]

Applying the Faith aliens, if we ever meet them it seems unlikely we are going to hold Caine and the others deaths against them because the Faith aliens did try to save them and were doomed without the aliens help anyway.

It was just a joke. For one thing, I doubt we'll ever meet them, and for another, I just had this hilarious mental image of the Faith aliens being all, "Let's say hello to our new potential allies and give them a gift in the form of their revived friends!" and then watching in horror as they all die, realise they screwed up, and then promptly decide to back off for a bit.

"Wait, so the red liquid is vital for them to keep moving? Riiiiiggghhttt."

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

A minor point.

If the shuttle can be fully restored to last a long time, why not the people?

Currently, there's no way to know whether that shuttle will last and I'd be a little leery of the thing just on general principal. As for the difference between the shuttle and people - I'd just have to say that it's one thing to piece together an inanimate object and another to create a living being, never mind a living being that many people believe is more than just the sum of its parts, as in - containing a soul.

[Blackhole]

As complex as the shuttle is, recreating human bodies with their personalities intact is quite a feat. All the frozen colonists would be very well preserved but the one who had died several months earlier; she had extensive head trauma and has been decomposing in the ground for months. I could see how her body could be cloned but to recreate her personality seems impossible without some time travel angle. I would think the damage to her brain would be so extensive that regardless of how advanced the alien's scanning technology was there wouldn't be enough source matter present to recreate her personality intact.

[nx01a]

As complex as the shuttle is, recreating human bodies with their personalities intact is quite a feat. All the frozen colonists would be very well preserved but the one who had died several months earlier; she had extensive head trauma and has been decomposing in the ground for months. I could see how her body could be cloned but to recreate her personality seems impossible without some time travel angle. I would think the damage to her brain would be so extensive that regardless of how advanced the alien's scanning technology was there wouldn't be enough source matter present to recreate her personality intact.

That's my point exactly. With that level of power, if they wanted to help, they'd help correctly. I can only conclude that they meant for the zombies to die horrible second deaths and freak out Destiny's crew. And that makes me more than a little weary of the Planet Builders and how they think.

[jelgate]

That's my point exactly. With that level of power, if they wanted to help, they'd help correctly. I can only conclude that they meant for the zombies to die horrible second deaths and freak out Destiny's crew. And that makes me more than a little weary of the Planet Builders and how they think.

Its a species they have never encountered before. I'm not so quick to judge that they what happen was intentional. Who knows if they have even seen anything close to our species. Regardless of advancement mistakes are possible if you are dealing with something you have no knowledge of.

[nx01a]

They obviously didn't talk to the zombies, either, or they'd know that dying a second horrible death is a bad thing.

[SGeff]

I just rewatched "Visitation". Here is a few new thoughts.

When Eli turn on the Kino video, did you see a Kino remote in Caine's hands? So who turned on the kino and recorded it. Also Caine said "Help us, I don't want to die." Why he said us instead of me if there was only him left?

A production mistake or that indicate the "Caine's" memory was a false memory.

Also we should not assume it is the planet builder who repair the body. The planet was built for two hundred million years, there must be some other aliens find the planet. They could build the tower not have to be the planet builder.

Ancients was just ascended for hundreds of thousands ago. The aliens who build a planet hundreds of millions years ago must ascended before the ancients. Doesn't the tower seems too new compared to Destiny?

So I guess there is a chance that the aliens who repair the body are not the planet buiders and they could be the big bad. Maybe it's actually the blues. Remember in "Malice" Chloe changes the Destiny's course, she could send a message about where and when Destiny would go. The blues could send the shuttle there wait Destiny to pick it up. Also it explains why they didn't fully repair Caine's crew.

[morbosfist]

When Eli turn on the Kino video, did you see a Kino remote in Caine's hands? So who turned on the kino and recorded it. Also Caine said "Help us, I don't want to die." Why he said us instead of me if there was only him left?

Maybe because he was half-dead from freezing and wasn't quite sure they were dead at the time. Also, the remote only needs to turn the Kino on. By the time we turn to Caine, he may have just stuffed it back into his blanket.

Also we should not assume it is the planet builder who repair the body. The planet was built for two hundred million years, there must be some other aliens find the planet. They could build the tower not have to be the planet builder.

No. Watch "Faith" again. The planet could not possibly be that old, and neither could the star.

Ancients was just ascended for hundreds of thousands ago. The aliens who build a planet hundreds of millions years ago must ascended before the ancients. Doesn't the tower seems too new compared to Destiny?

See above.

So I guess there is a chance that the aliens who repair the body are not the planet buiders and they could be the big bad. Maybe it's actually the blues. Remember in "Malice" Chloe changes the Destiny's course, she could send a message about where and when Destiny would go. The blues could send the shuttle there wait Destiny to pick it up. Also it explains why they didn't fully repair Caine's crew.

The blues cannot make a planet.

[SGeff]

Maybe because he was half-dead from freezing and wasn't quite sure they were dead at the time. Also, the remote only needs to turn the Kino on. By the time we turn to Caine, he may have just stuffed it back into his blanket.

Could be as you said, could be as I said, just a thought.

No. Watch "Faith" again. The planet could not possibly be that old, and neither could the star. See above.

As a matter of fact, I do rewatch the "Faith" before I posted it. They said the planet was built 2 hundred million years ago. Which it is too young could not growing plants, it should be just a rocked place.

By the way the age of earth is 4.6 billion years 23 times of that planet. The plants only grew before 2.5 billion years which is at the age of 2.1 billion years 10 times older than the planet. And by the plants, I mean the algae in the tree not trees or grasses. The first time of the plants appeared on the ground was 0.438 billion years ago.

The trees only appears 0.145 billion years ago. By that time Earth is 4.45 billion years, compare to that the only 0.2 billion years old planet is quite young, don't you think???

The blues cannot make a planet.

I didn't say the blue make the planet, I just said the blue find the planet and build the tower.

[garhkal]

In watching, I was struck by the notion that the visitation wasn’t so much about bringing people back to the Destiny via the all knowing, all powerful aliens as much as it was about showing the “Eden” people what they had given up, what they had lost. Not only their lives but the very thing that makes us human: our will to come together and fight against any adversity, to overcome by the strength of our own will. To follow our own Destiny.

That is an interesting thought.. Though would not them have staying there, being how they 'would follow their own destiny'?

We do have cloning technology now, and some groups have claimed to have cloned a human. However, I don't know how true that is without seeing the research released to a Peer review paper.

But none of those clones lasted that long.

Worked great for Jack in 'Abyss'. Several times, in fact.

And yet see how much after each tie, he was wanting more and more for the death to be the last..

That's my point exactly. With that level of power, if they wanted to help, they'd help correctly. I can only conclude that they meant for the zombies to die horrible second deaths and freak out Destiny's crew. And that makes me more than a little weary of the Planet Builders and how they think.

And who's tto say they don't think entirely different from how we do? Heck we have species here that are that way.

[rcpadrick]

this show may or may not last very long anyway. it's very different compared to the others (SGA SG1). it's got a totally different feeling. the others were more entertaining, fun, and sometimes more action than this one. and i wonder, just how long the producers and scriptwriters plan to keep the characters going nowhere? in a realistic situation, after everything the SGC has accumulated in knowledge and technology, (very advanced AI, asgard core, atlantis) i can tell you beyond much doubt it would NOT take long for these people to be rescued. and from what by the way? a rust bucket constantly experiencing failures that should have either broken down or been blown up by now considering realistic odds. The producers aren't doing a good job. This show is A WAY TO MAKE MONEY.

Seeing as how it's a fictional show, how can you say "beyond much doubt" that the would be rescued?

That aside, EVERY TV show is a way to make money. If it wasn't, it would be on PBS.

[nx01a]

And yet see how much after each tie, he was wanting more and more for the death to be the last..
And who's tto say they don't think entirely different from how we do? Heck we have species here that are that way.

Kinda my point, really. An extremely powerful race that possibly doesn't think like us but certainly doesn't understand us... That's scary.

And Jack's resurrections certainly show the trauma that being brought back and dying again and knowing that you're going to die again horribly causes.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

This was another episode that was interesting at least. It certainly kept my attention from start to finish and had a lot of good stuff.

Putting aside my Disappointment for TJ and her baby, this seems like an anticlimactic way to end the Planet Builders + Faith storyline. It feels like it didn't really amount to much at all.

I guess we're supposed to believe that TJ's vision was just a scenario created by Destiny. It seems kind of strange for the ship to do that. What would be the purpose? Why would it do that specifically for TJ? If it was, then surely they should be able to find records of it or something?

I'd figured that the Faith Planet and TJ's baby were supposed to be a metaphor for the afterlife. So I wasn't expecting to hear from them again, since generally people don't get end up returning from the afterlife just to tell people that there isn't one.

The episode raises a number of questions as to why any of this would be happening. It kind of raises a few holes too. If the aliens found Caine right before or just after he died then they logically should have been able to save him. The Goa'uld and Asgard can revive a person who recently died from an injury. Why couldn't the aliens? An since they seemed to want to fix all the scientists anyway, I don't see why they couldn't' want to. And if we're supposed to believe that the aliens genuinely thought that they had fixed them, why wouldn't they come back to check on the crew after the dropped them off? If they were never meant to die, why would they all die in the same way as they did on that planet even when none of the conditions are what they are exposed to anymore.

My favorite parts were some of the other scenes, I actually found the B plot a little more compelling than the A plot in many regards. One my absolute favorites scenes ever in the show so far now is the Greer, Cloe one. I really like that. Greer and Scott had a good one too.

[morbosfist]

As a matter of fact, I do rewatch the "Faith" before I posted it. They said the planet was built 2 hundred million years ago. Which it is too young could not growing plants, it should be just a rocked place.

By the way the age of earth is 4.6 billion years 23 times of that planet. The plants only grew before 2.5 billion years which is at the age of 2.1 billion years 10 times older than the planet. And by the plants, I mean the algae in the tree not trees or grasses. The first time of the plants appeared on the ground was 0.438 billion years ago.

The trees only appears 0.145 billion years ago. By that time Earth is 4.45 billion years, compare to that the only 0.2 billion years old planet is quite young, don't you think???

You didn't watch very closely then.

VOLKER: Well, vigorous surface activity, strong stellar winds, bipolar outflow. It's brand new, all right. It's straight out of T Tauri phase.

WALLACE: Which would still make it, like, what, a hundred million years old?

VOLKER: Two hundred million.

WALLACE: And how far ahead of us are those Gate-seeding ships?

RUSH: It doesn't make any sense. The ships would have noticed it.

WALLACE: And dropped a shiny new Stargate on the planet.

VOLKER: That's the weird thing about this. I mean, if this star really is this young, then that planet should still be a ball of molten rock.

It's the star, not the planet, that is supposedly that old, yet neither can possibly be that old because the ship never would have stopped if they were. That's the entire point of the episode. The planet and star cannot be that old, because they are not supposed to be there.

I didn't say the blue make the planet, I just said the blue find the planet and build the tower.

Which really makes no sense. One, if it were their writing, Rush would have recognized it. Two, if they found it, they wouldn't have just dropped a massive pillar there and left.