'Visitation' (209) General Discussion

[jelgate]

It's just logical. Nature is nature, it takes time to grow and time to die. And even if the winter came overnight, they still had trees and an ax - there was no need to freeze to death on those circumstances.

You kept saying that but its alien nature. We have no idea the life cycle of said nature differs from ours.

[LoneStar1836]

On the contrary. The nature was all green when they stayed on the planet. It takes about two months cold weather to turn the leaves yellow, then fall and then snow to come, I've never seen it happen faster. It's not logical.

Even if they had two months, I still think it's fairly plausible that they still wouldn't be able to gather and store enough food to last for...what was it 7/8 people...for very long.

I totally agree with you about the shelter thing though. I think they could have done better prep work as far as shelter went, as well as stocking up on firewood. They should of had the foresight to think about what would happen if the power on the shuttle failed. They would have needed a backup plan. Can't exactly start a roaring fire in the shuttle, so they'd need something outside. So I do think that part was rather dumb in the story as I think they would have had something where they could have built a fire and still had some protection from the elements.

That's why I'd think the possibility of them starving to death was higher than them freezing to death.

[Eestlanna]

This whole story about freezing to death and so on is so stupid that it makes me wonder, is it true at all. Or are those people still on that planet, very much alive and all this is just another game dream played by Destiny.

[Sylverlin]

Good point about the sexuality, it gets *that* kind of tension out of the way.

It is nice to see them working together and not against each other. Mutual respect is, I think, a good term... They've also gotten to know each other quite a lot - and in dark places, especially Rush and Young; they have both hit the bottom of their relations (Justice, and the not-quite-repeat performance in The Greater Good), so they have no more cards hidden up their sleeves. That contributes to trust in a way, too: you've seen all the bad the other one can throw at you and you know he has seen the worst of you, so you know he really understands how much you want to make it work.

With Wray, I think Young got to really respect her when she went unarmed and finally alone to see through the prisoner transfer with the Lucian Alliance. She respects him now that he conducts himself as a proper commander again.

Young has learned (the hard way) that he has to - and, more importantly, can, now that he understands them much better - trust other people and delegate responsibilities on them. That's what makes it possible for the leaders to work as a team.

It is a good thing for everyone aboard that they do.

[Puddle-Jumper]

I loved how ambigious the ending was left... especially the scene with Caine dying in the shuttle just to see that light, powerful stuff

[Starrtom]

I loved how ambigious the ending was left... especially the scene with Caine dying in the shuttle just to see that light, powerful stuff

Definitely one of the best moments of the episode, and the ambigiuty of it opens up so many questions. It was a great episode and very thought provoking.

[Daralundy]

No the whole thing was too fantastical and stoopid. Especially them dying again the same way. That was just majikal and supernatural.

[jelgate]

No the whole thing was too fantastical and stoopid. Especially them dying again the same way. That was just majikal and supernatural.

To be supernatural it has to be impossible and use some kind of "magic."

[Nemuro]

This episode reminded me alot about the 2001 movie Artificial Intelligence. Movie Spoilers below...

Spoiler:

It reminded me specifically with the ending. How David the robotic child goes to find the 'blue fairy' to turn him into a real human child so his mother will love him again. But ends up praying to a blue fairy statue, 2000 years later and the ocean is frozen over. Advanced lifeforms find him for study since he was around at the time of humans. But the thing that seems similar to the theme of Visitation is how they offer David a choice to bring back his mother that died around 2000 years ago. By using a hair sample they recreate her body with the dna and they recreate her to David's idealistic memory of her.

But there is a catch and the reanimation can only be sustained for one day because it is outside the alien's technological animations. Not only that but she can not be reanimated twice.

David chooses to reanimate her anyways, because he will use that one day to make it feel like a lifetime. So when it comes time for his mother to go to bed and to die, he goes to bed with her and dreams about her. Effectively keeping her memory alive, and hence her in some way.

So about his episode, I think some people are missing that we are talking about aliens that we have no idea about. We don't know their values or beliefs, but most importantly for this episode, we don't know how they see 'time'. Time is relative, so one day for them could be a long time, so when they reanimated the Faith Scientists, they probably thought that one day would be enough time for a second chance.

Or it could also be because that is the limitations of their technology. It seems that they were reanimated from a point in time somewhere after Destiny left. Maybe they were being progressively saved for every moment that they stepped foot on the planet. That when they were reanimated they were really just a series of save files being played after each other. Hence when they died a second time, it was because there was no point afterwards that was saved or the last save was an inanimate body. Since we as humans are different from every moment (we are never the person we are today as we will be tomorrow), the only way to reanimate is to backup a series of 'presents'. Possibly why they have no 'soul' is because a 'soul' is probably something you develop from birth, it is effectively your character. But these people were just copies, they had no soul because they had no past. They had memories, but you could implant your memories in a clone (aka Carson Clone) and they still wouldn't be you.

It's interesting that they didn't really talk about anything pre-Faith. All they could relate to with the crew on Destiny was their present save. But when more questions were asked, they had to live through their lives in hypnosis, which made them quickly jump from one save to the other. So in a way it burned up days on the planet, further shortening their lives. It would have affected the other scientists, cause they'd be catching up to the point in time that the others were at.

They died because they reached the point were they were saved before death. Hence why they mimicked how they died previously. It was written into their reanimation. I don't think the aliens made a mistake, they just accurately reproduced the data they had of the scientists.

Quickly about the adults freezing to death, I would say it is understandable. Morale is pretty low for them to jump ship to the planet. But even worse when one of them dies due to an avoidable accident. That Peter guy probably lost hope not so much because of the situation they were in but because he was the reason the girl he fancied was crushed by a tree. When you give up mentally, you deteriorate physically or you even neglect to take care of yourself.

Makes me think that the planet was a bit of a experiment. The scientists were themselves being tested on and recorded. They probably could be brought back to life again but would still be destined to only live out one day and would end up frostbitten or bleeding internal. Actually they probably were brought onto Destiny to see how people would react to them. Another little experiment. Somewhere out there probably saved onto the Obelisk like a hard drive there are copies of the Faith scientists, so that the higher aliens can bring back into being and examined. They've got their own stored sample of human DNA. Which I admit sounds a little creepy but funnily enough Caine got his wish, he didn't want to die so now he is saved for eternity.

But on another note. By bringing back the Faith scientists back to life for at least a day, they gave the crew an opportunity to bury their own. Otherwise the scientists would have died alone in obscurity, at least they have some dignity by being buried by someone other than snow. So whilst they died physically, in terms of 'soul', they live on in those who succeed them. So Caine kinda got his wish. Besides a day to set out your affairs is something some people don't get.

I think the introduction of the new shuttle is fitting and I have no problem with it. It fits in with the theme of the "Eden", if the humans were expelled from it, then why not everything that the humans brought to "Eden". I wonder if that planet is designed to be built anew once one 'experiment' moves on from it.

Anyways, I have to say I really liked this episode and the above is me just having fun with how I see the episode. Visitation is one of the most poignant of the series, and a fitting coda to Faith. I love the way SGU dances on the line of 'faith', one moment it makes it feel like it is embracing creationism, then this episode makes you think that it was punishment to the scientists for believing in a form of creationism but then it gives a certain beauty about the whole Faith planet situation with the ending scene. This episode shows how noble SGU can be imo. I admit I nearly shed a tear with the TJ and Caine bit.

[Krisz]

I wonder if the shuttle will 'revert' to its former state like the people did. As soon as they take it out for a spin, systems and the structure will start to fail bit by bit!

[Nemuro]

I wonder if the shuttle will 'revert' to its former state like the people did. As soon as they take it out for a spin, systems and the structure will start to fail bit by bit!

If the shuttle was deteriorating at the same rate as the humans, then it would be useless before they even begun to take it out on missions. But I think all that was damaged at that point was the console malfunctioned, so the ship would have been rebuilt with a faulty console. Though I'm not sure with the comment that it was 'brand new'.

I think the aliens were more familiar with technology then they are with the human physiology and the human condition. Or that there was limitations with bringing back a organic living being than bringing back a shuttle. They probably thought that a human deteriorating was intended and that since the shuttle looks familiar with other technology (possibly their own) that it shouldn't deteriorate. Though who knows how these aliens think, or even if they are human. They could even look like those sand mites from season 1. Maybe they know about humans deteriorating and technology supposed to be new from the information they got from the scientists minds.

[StefanSGA]

This whole shuttle thing reminds me too much of BSG: Starbuck dies and is reborn, bringing along a brandnew Viper. Was Kara an Angel, was she a product of faith? Maybe there's a homing beacon in the new shuttle which can send them back to Earth!!!!

[garhkal]

I wonder what stopped them building a cabin after it started getting cold? P.S. I consider myself very much religious person, but I would never ever listen someone saying something as idiot as don't build yourself a shelter, wait for God.

I am surprised they didn't start when the rest of the gang were there... Before scott and co went back to the Destiny.

This whole story about freezing to death and so on is so stupid that it makes me wonder, is it true at all. Or are those people still on that planet, very much alive and all this is just another game dream played by Destiny.

That would freak me out if that were true.. BUT didn't rush turn off that interface.

[PotRoast]

The ending scene left me feeling that TJ is now "free" to explore new options open to her. That will be a nice change if this is true. Leave old baggage behind. Start fresh. New journey with a sort of cooperative command?! Maybe.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Visitation Review [SGU 209]

xxxevilgrinxxx | Published: November 27, 2010 | crossposted at my personal blog

RUSH: Well, either He’s lost His touch, or God’s got nothing to do with this.

With a name like Caine, I knew we were going to be seeing something interesting. There’s something in the way that Rush says this, in the distance he, and the rest of the crew, keep from Caine and the others, that really struck me. Caine has lived up to his name and become something of a villain, if not in the way that we would normally see. Caine is a bad guy not for any evil acts that he committed but that in his way of thinking, his blind belief, he led not only himself but others off the path.

Despite all the gods that have appeared in the Stargate franchise, from the original movie through all its incarnations, Stargate has always been about the people. In “Faith” and, more specifically, with Caine, we were shown a character that was not willing to put his faith in his fellow men, or even to put his faith in a technology that was alien and unknown, but that had instead put his faith in an alien god-like entity that he had ascribed a specific nature upon: as a benevolent, all knowing, wish granting god.

Given the dire circumstances that the entire ship faced, perhaps it was easier to believe that some unknown entity would take care of them and that all their days of toil and fear were over, if only they believed enough. And so a good number of people chose to stay. When the Destiny left, I believed that we would never see any of those people again. Of course, this is science fiction and anything can happen. In “Aftermath”, TJ is shown a perfect image, to help ease the death of her child. Images are easy, it’s the truth that’s hard and in “Visitation”, we got the truth.

In watching, I was struck by the notion that the visitation wasn’t so much about bringing people back to the Destiny via the all knowing, all powerful aliens as much as it was about showing the “Eden” people what they had given up, what they had lost. Not only their lives but the very thing that makes us human: our will to come together and fight against any adversity, to overcome by the strength of our own will. To follow our own Destiny.

Whatever alien presence Caine believed would provide for them all, that last act wasn’t a kindness, save to the Destiny crew. Caine could not be shaken from his beliefs on the “Eden” planet. He was only slightly shaken as the winter moved in, as all their life was consumed in fruitless work. He was not shaken as everyone around him died. In the end, what finally shook Caine was coming back to the Destiny.

Aboard Destiny, he was taken to see the beautiful new garden. An “Eden” made not by some benevolent alien on a whim but made by us, by our own hands. Afterwards, on the observation deck with TJ, his faith takes on a form that a good many of the people aboard Destiny have had all along, in some form or another. His faith becomes less a matter of great gods and benevolent aliens and becomes the simpler faith that we have in each other. In our ability to be kind. At the last, his message is to have faith in each other. Only then is he free to die.

This being Stargate Universe, the visit by Caine and the others is not the only visit that takes place during the episode. There is the emotional visit between Greer and Chloe, where he asks for her forgiveness for what he has to do. There is the visit by Scott to Chloe, and a later one snubbed, where she turns him away for his own good. There is a visit between Wray and Young which shows that what had been building to mutual respect may be forming into mutual friendship, something I had wanted to see since the incursion. It is in the visits between Wray and the new people that the crew learns the truth about what happened on the planet after they left. There are brief moments between TJ and Young, who both have a vested interest in the fate of the “Eden” people, for the sake of their daughter. With TJ, it is less about faith and more about the desperate need to believe something good. Young believes what he saw from the beginning: that the best chance of survival was on the ship, with people. Where his only somewhat supernatural belief is wanting to run every time he’s in a room with one of the new people, showing that he believes in the human soul.

In our current use, we would rarely use the word ‘visitation’, but there are instances where the word is common. As a Christian theological term, for one, referring to the appearance of a supernatural being, or a visiting of punishment or reward from some higher power. The term is also used however in reference to hauntings. In soulless people returned to the Destiny by some entity, the term fits. In seeing the truth of the “Faith” planet, the crew can move on rather than always wondering ‘what if’. In seeing the Destiny, the “Eden” people can move on, seeing what they had given up.

One thing is certain for me: I’d never want to set foot on that shuttle.

Rating: 9/10