'Lost' (115) General Discussion

[SG7]

to be fair here, while we're talking about apologizing, Rush is no saint. He tried to frame the man for murder at a time when they really didn't need the distraction. Then there's the whole stranding them all on Destiny in the first place tacked on to constant manipulations and mis-truths on Rush's part. I think before everyone jumps on the "I hate Young" train, it should be remembered that there's more than enough to go around, which has been one of the defining features of SGU. No one's blameless. They are both coming to the middle for the sake of the crew. Will they be friends? I doubt it, but I'm sure they'll work together.

Indeed! Well said. In fact there are quite a few on board Destiny who are carrying "baggage" of some form or other. We have already had a taste of it in seeing pieces of both Rush's and Greer's past. And also in finding out that TJ and Young had an affair......Just to name a few off the top of my head

[yanna]

to be fair here, while we're talking about apologizing, Rush is no saint. He tried to frame the man for murder at a time when they really didn't need the distraction.

And Young's solution to that was to actually try to commit murder even though he had proof of Rush's actions and could clear his name without any doubt.

Then there's the whole stranding them all on Destiny in the first place tacked on to constant manipulations and mis-truths on Rush's part. I think before everyone jumps on the "I hate Young" train, it should be remembered that there's more than enough to go around, which has been one of the defining features of SGU. No one's blameless.

And I agree that to some degree Rush deserved punishment for stranding them but that is something for the entire ship to decide. It looks to me like the civilians weren't ok with leaving Rush for dead even considering that he was the one who stranded them, may have lied a few times (or Young was paranoid enough to think he had) and downplayed the danger of the chair which fried Franklin's brain.

They are both coming to the middle for the sake of the crew.

Hardly. Rush agreed to that but had already put in motion his plot to take over. And I don't blame him. Young is dangerously incompetent. His latest gem, letting Eli out of his sight, esp. as Rush was on the chair, frying his brain. Rush has reason to distrust Young and to want him gone and I really hope he'll keep trying. As for Young's attack of niceness in Faith, it's all bs. He and his soldiers are ruling the ship by force and he's going left and right barking orders about things he knows nothing about. They will work together because with the military's blind devotion to Young, Rush is left with no choice but Young is yet another obstacle for Rush and the survival of everyone on the Destiny. He's not on top of the situation. What scares me is that by the show runners logic I'm supposed to see Rush and Young as equals and to think that Young is just another typical air force guy who may have gotten a little carried away there... I see a guy who attempted murder and doesn't even have the decency to face the consequences of his actions and to step down. Who didn't even offer a decent apology to the man who he tried to kill twice and who was tortured because of Young's actions. I don't know how to sympathise with such a character. More power to those who do.

[Daro]

And Young's solution to that was to actually try to commit murder even though he had proof of Rush's actions and could clear his name without any doubt.




And I agree that to some degree Rush deserved punishment for stranding them but that is something for the entire ship to decide. It looks to me like the civilians weren't ok with leaving Rush for dead even considering that he was the one who stranded them, may have lied a few times (or Young was paranoid enough to think he had) and downplayed the danger of the chair which fried Franklin's brain.



Hardly. Rush agreed to that but had already put in motion his plot to take over. And I don't blame him. Young is dangerously incompetent. His latest gem, letting Eli out of his sight, esp. as Rush was on the chair, frying his brain. Rush has reason to distrust Young and to want him gone and I really hope he'll keep trying. As for Young's attack of niceness in Faith, it's all bs. He and his soldiers are ruling the ship by force and he's going left and right barking orders about things he knows nothing about. They will work together because with the military's blind devotion to Young, Rush is left with no choice but Young is yet another obstacle for Rush and the survival of everyone on the Destiny. He's not on top of the situation. What scares me is that by the show runners logic I'm supposed to see Rush and Young as equals and to think that Young is just another typical air force guy who may have gotten a little carried away there... I see a guy who attempted murder and doesn't even have the decency to face the consequences of his actions and to step down. Who didn't even offer a decent apology to the man who he tried to kill twice and who was tortured because of Young's actions. I don't know how to sympathise with such a character. More power to those who do.

You make several valid points. Indeed, sending Eli off world while Rush's life was in danger seems an egregious mistake; Destiny cannot survive without at least one of its geniuses. Young needs to understand that the other scientists may be brilliant in their own fields, but they do not have the ability to generalize and learn quickly to adapt to the various problems that arise on the ship. They're specialists, whereas Rush and Eli are the ones who are capable of connecting the dots between the data the other scientists uncover.

And, whether Young is right or wrong, he needs to apologize for the ship's sake, even if he doesn't feel like he should have to. Failure to do so tells me that he holds his own hurt feelings above his desire to bring the crew together in a spirit of cooperation. Rush should probably lighten up, but why would he? Despite his many many flaws, I think he's been wronged. Maybe he deserved it, maybe he didn't. That's not important at this point; the ship and its crew are what matters, and there'll be time later on, hopefully, to address Rush's alleged crimes.

At the end of the day, the responsibility to reach out and repair the schism between himself and Rush, and by extension the military and the civvies, is totally on Young. He is the leader. Rush is not, as has been made abundantly clear. I'm encouraged by Young's attempts so far, but he still isn't doing what I think he should to unite his crew.

[LtColCarter]

You make several valid points. Indeed, sending Eli off world while Rush's life was in danger seems an egregious mistake; Destiny cannot survive without at least one of its geniuses. Young needs to understand that the other scientists may be brilliant in their own fields, but they do not have the ability to generalize and learn quickly to adapt to the various problems that arise on the ship. They're specialists, whereas Rush and Eli are the ones who are capable of connecting the dots between the data the other scientists uncover.

And, whether Young is right or wrong, he needs to apologize for the ship's sake, even if he doesn't feel like he should have to. Failure to do so tells me that he holds his own hurt feelings above his desire to bring the crew together in a spirit of cooperation. Rush should probably lighten up, but why would he? Despite his many many flaws, I think he's been wronged. Maybe he deserved it, maybe he didn't. That's not important at this point; the ship and its crew are what matters, and there'll be time later on, hopefully, to address Rush's alleged crimes.

At the end of the day, the responsibility to reach out and repair the schism between himself and Rush, and by extension the military and the civvies, is totally on Young. He is the leader. Rush is not, as has been made abundantly clear. I'm encouraged by Young's attempts so far, but he still isn't doing what I think he should to unite his crew.

Well, I did agree with ya...LOL

Is seems that people are forgetting at the end of Space where Rush was talking to Wray. He's still plotting against Young. For now, it seems that he's only giving Young that appearance of cooperation.

[m_wendy_r]

OK. An ending I didn't expect.

I, for one, can't wait for the next episode!

And what I love about this show is there's no right or wrong, good or evil. It's realistic that their actions could be perceived as both good or bad, it's their intentions you have to look at. I really like this show. I've definitely grown into it. With each episode, I love all that bit more.

[LtColCarter]

OK. An ending I didn't expect.

I, for one, can't wait for the next episode!

And what I love about this show is there's no right or wrong, good or evil. It's realistic that their actions could be perceived as both good or bad, it's their intentions you have to look at. I really like this show. I've definitely grown into it. With each episode, I love all that bit more.

So, when someone frames someone else for murder...its not right or wrong? I think its a tad bit wrong.

[Daro]

Well, I did agree with ya...LOL

Is seems that people are forgetting at the end of Space where Rush was talking to Wray. He's still plotting against Young. For now, it seems that he's only giving Young that appearance of cooperation.

Why wouldn't he plot against Young? I mean, think about it. We've seen that Dr. Rush avoids physically harming others. Whether that's just because he doesn't like to get his hands dirty or not isn't clear yet. Young left him to die; when Rush got back, he knew he had an implant in his chest, and assumed that it would serve as another excuse for Young to do the job properly. I can't blame him for wanting to avoid that death sentence - obviously Rush was wrong about how far Young would go, but he was acting on the information he had, and I can't quite fault his logic.

However, it's been several months since "Divided" now. The fact that Young did the right thing with regards to Rush's implant was a good first step to show that he wasn't going to be trying to kill the good doctor any chance he got. They've worked together, begrudgingly and somewhat effectively. I have no doubt that Rush is biding his time, watching and waiting for the moment that Young indicates that he hasn't changed, that he's still seeking revenge. I fully expect Rush to misread such a sign, at some point, and start another fracas to try and remove Young. While neither can trust the other, I say it's safe to assume they'll be at each other's throats again when the situation is right. And I think both are plotting, though nothing concrete yet. Young is a strategist, he knows better than to trust Rush.

Plotting is simply a symptom of mistrust.

[BobbyScars]

I know Im getting off topic a little but I have to say it. Does anyone get the feeling we are getting closer and closer to having an alien crewmember on destiny? I mean every SG has had aliens in it who could explain the surroundings and allows them to get a little more acquainted with the people and planets. This may be the reason for leaving the current galaxy, you see the closer you get to the "center" of the universe the more advanced the civilizations should become. So either they are moving closer or further away, closer you get a more advanced species which may make it cool for battles etc or you get further away and maybe get someone like a Ronin or Teyla. Of course the writers may not want to do this because its too SG, just something to mull over.

[Coronach]

I know Im getting off topic a little but I have to say it. Does anyone get the feeling we are getting closer and closer to having an alien crewmember on destiny? I mean every SG has had aliens in it who could explain the surroundings and allows them to get a little more acquainted with the people and planets.

It really depends. I'm not expecting this to happen, but if it did I'm interested in how they'd implement it. It almost certainly couldn't be a human alien. It'd be interesting if there was a completely CGI character though. For now, though, I'm thinking I don't think this is on the horizon.

This may be the reason for leaving the current galaxy, you see the closer you get to the "center" of the universe the more advanced the civilizations should become. So either they are moving closer or further away, closer you get a more advanced species which may make it cool for battles etc or you get further away and maybe get someone like a Ronin or Teyla. Of course the writers may not want to do this because its too SG, just something to mull over.

I notice you put "center" in quotations, but I just have to ask. What do you mean? As far as my knowledge goes, there's no "center" of the universe, and there are no parts of the universe itself that are older/younger than others. There are areas where older galaxies exist, but even then a galaxy's age may not be a good correlate of advanced alien species being present.

I guess I'm just confused on what you meant here.

[Daro]

I know Im getting off topic a little but I have to say it. Does anyone get the feeling we are getting closer and closer to having an alien crewmember on destiny? I mean every SG has had aliens in it who could explain the surroundings and allows them to get a little more acquainted with the people and planets. This may be the reason for leaving the current galaxy, you see the closer you get to the "center" of the universe the more advanced the civilizations should become. So either they are moving closer or further away, closer you get a more advanced species which may make it cool for battles etc or you get further away and maybe get someone like a Ronin or Teyla. Of course the writers may not want to do this because its too SG, just something to mull over.

I would love it if an alien, a truly non-human one, were to end up on Destiny, but only if the alien was allowed to be a real character and not just a plot device. That said, no, I don't think we'll be seeing that anytime soon. SGU is a drama about humans, after all, and an alien character might be seen as a distraction from that. Personally, I'd think a well done alien crew member would not only be interesting in its own right, but also be a great way to examine how real people in a bad situation would apply their morality differently toward someone not of their species. Would they see the alien as a person, or just a charicature? It'd be a great way to examine the broader implications of bigotry without having to deal with the controversy of using human minorities to illustrate the point. SGU has already gotten a lot of flack for that from critics.

[m_wendy_r]

So, when someone frames someone else for murder...its not right or wrong? I think its a tad bit wrong.

I meant in general, actually. But yeah, if you look at the motivation behind why he did it, I'll bet you could find things that people would disagree on--some people might see it as a justified and others wouldn't. And that's what I meant. The point is that they think they're right for doing it, and they're not necessarily being evil. I'm not saying it's not wrong at all, but it's not completely 100% wrong.

[maximmumrisk]

So, when someone frames someone else for murder...its not right or wrong? I think its a tad bit wrong.

Framing someone for murder is not right, but its understandable why Rush did it. He needed that the People question Youngs abilities to make decisions. If they now suspect that he had something to do with a Murder on board his image would take great damage and People wouldn´t listen to him anymore and I dont think that is actually meant bad. Rush wants a saying in it too since he is the Genious onboard. Young cant make decisions about science and Rush has no idea how to command an attack or even a Crew. They need each other.

In the end Rush still got his wish. Just that he was the victim, but the doubts about Youngs actions on that Planet will come back for him sooner or later.

[Daro]

Framing someone for murder is not right, but its understandable why Rush did it. He needed that the People question Youngs abilities to make decisions. If they now suspect that he had something to do with a Murder on board his image would take great damage and People wouldn´t listen to him anymore and I dont think that is actually meant bad. Rush wants a saying in it too since he is the Genious onboard. Young cant make decisions about science and Rush has no idea how to command an attack or even a Crew. They need each other.

In the end Rush still got his wish. Just that he was the victim, but the doubts about Youngs actions on that Planet will come back for him sooner or later.

I agree. While I don't think Rush had sufficient reason to frame Young, I can see how he reached that conclusion. And I can see why Young left Rush to die. At the end of the day, though, the level of the two crimes don't meet each other; Rush is callous and sneaky, but he hasn't yet committed or attempted to commit murder, that we know of. The thing with Franklin is still a matter of who's story you want to believe. Even if I believed Rush intentionally convinced Franklin to sit down, manipulating someone into a life threatening situation is not quite the same as trying to kill them. It's not much better, mind you.

I too think that Young hasn't really faced any consequences for his actions on the planet yet, and that he will have to sooner or later.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I would love it if an alien, a truly non-human one, were to end up on Destiny, but only if the alien was allowed to be a real character and not just a plot device. That said, no, I don't think we'll be seeing that anytime soon. SGU is a drama about humans, after all, and an alien character might be seen as a distraction from that. Personally, I'd think a well done alien crew member would not only be interesting in its own right, but also be a great way to examine how real people in a bad situation would apply their morality differently toward someone not of their species. Would they see the alien as a person, or just a charicature? It'd be a great way to examine the broader implications of bigotry without having to deal with the controversy of using human minorities to illustrate the point. SGU has already gotten a lot of flack for that from critics.

I hope they do avoid the alien crewmember thing. In past, and not only in SG shows, the alien has served as either 'all positive traits' or 'all negative traits' and both scenarios have managed to allow the humans in the show to project what is best or worse in themselves onto the 'other'. What's worst in us is human, and what's best in us is human. I like that SGU goes there.

[Daro]

I hope they do avoid the alien crewmember thing. In past, and not only in SG shows, the alien has served as either 'all positive traits' or 'all negative traits' and both scenarios have managed to allow the humans in the show to project what is best or worse in themselves onto the 'other'. What's worst in us is human, and what's best in us is human. I like that SGU goes there.

Exactly, aliens get typecast. Which is why part of me hopes that we actually see some complex alien characters, even if they don't join the ship. While they occur sometimes in books, I've rarely seen any in television. I personally adore well-done, complex aliens, but they're hard to find. If SGU could actually pull it off, it might open the door for that type of thing. Otherwise, forget it.