Young has psychologically crumbled and needs be removed from command.

[tomstone]

I'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?

I actually did that. The assumption that they are trapped was stupid. They had Telfords intel and knew exactly what they are up against Terretorywise. It was a dumb decision which followed a downward spiral that did put everyone at risk.

[PG15]

What you call an "emtional undercurrent as part of his character flaw" most people would call stupidity of the first degree. I mean, like "putting your hand on a hot stove" kind of stupid. That's just painful to watch.

But haven't there been moments in all of our lives when some bit of emotional bias stops us from thinking logically? I mean, call it stupidity, emotional undercurrent, whatever; it happens to all of us, no?

It wasn't painful for me to watch because I understood that Young's hang up on not losing people prevented him from seeing the logical course of action, and it's something that I can easily relate to (well, not the deciding-the-fate-of-people thing, but the emotional-hang-up thing).

[EllieVee]

I'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?

I wasn't yelling but yes, I assumed they would be able to get out of the gateroom. Explosives were obvious. Young should have anticipated it.

[Kaiphantom]

I'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?

To be honest, I read the spoilers when they aired in the Ukraine, haha. So I knew about the keys. But when watching it, I was still wondering why he wasn't venting the atmosphere sooner; from the spoilers, I thought he had a good reason, but I couldn't see it when I watched. And your response here is a bit out of place, because as a military commander, Young should have been trained in proper tactics and assumption about enemy forces (that is, you assume the enemy can do something until proven they can't). It should have been drilled into him in wargames to expect the enemy to carry explosives. Our soldiers do; grenades, C-4, and flashbangs, among others.

In short, if you or I can think of it, then a military person, not even a commander, should have thought of it already, especially concerning weapons of war.

Also, Young did assume the LA were armed (mentioned in the show) and that they could get out of the Gateroom, otherwise there wouldn't have been soldiers posted around it.

Ah, but your words contradict JM. He's repeated it often enough, that "They were trapped in the gateroom, and thus Young lost nothing by waiting and attempting to negotiate; how could he have foreseen the keys?" But if they had explosives, then waiting *does* mean he loses something; the initiative and the chance to end the threat immediately. Hell, even if they didn't have explosives or keys, waiting is still bad, because you give up the initiative and give your enemy time to come up with a counter-measure.

About as bad as the Dr. evil plan of "I'm going to leave you here in a situation you can easily escape, and not watch you die, and trust everything will work out just fine."

Dumb. As. Hell. How bad guys have been defeated because they didn't kill the heroes straight off, and instead kept them alive? What you call an "emtional undercurrent as part of his character flaw" most people would call stupidity of the first degree. I mean, like "putting your hand on a hot stove" kind of stupid. That's just painful to watch.

But the main point I was responding to, was that it was a perfectly valid assumption to make that the LA couldn't get out of the gateroom. It wasn't.

[jelgate]

I wonder what the Young "haters" are going to say when our boy goes "dark" next season?
A "cold, dark, bloodthirsty" Young, that wants revenge!
Season 2 can't come soon enough for me!

Does it matter at this point? At this stage thier are just going to be people who hate Young regardless of his actions. The same could also be said to some who like him. Its the way of fandom

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I wonder what the Young "haters" are going to say when our boy goes "dark" next season?
A "cold, dark, bloodthirsty" Young, that wants revenge!
Season 2 can't come soon enough for me!

I can just imagine a gagillion torture threads with lots of pearl-clutching all around
bring on the dark, dark, darkety dark dark dark! Louis Ferreira does a pretty good serial killer....that's all I'm sayin'

[Kermee]

Yes, this, exactly. It would be very easy and convenient to have his personal flaws forgotten about so he could be all superheroey for the episode and then go back, perhaps, to flaws afterward. It shows a lot of guts on the part of the writers to not take that easy route and to have his actions reflect those flaws at a time like this, because in a whole lot of shows, we'd never see those flaws. I really respect the writers for doing that and not only with Young, but with all the characters.

I wonder what the Young "haters" are going to say when our boy goes "dark" next season?
A "cold, dark, bloodthirsty" Young, that wants revenge!
Season 2 can't come soon enough for me!

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

...
Young's emotional undercurrent has been a part of his character flaw the whole season. This is just another manifestation of it. Frankly I'm glad TPTB are keeping him consistent.

Yes, this, exactly. It would be very easy and convenient to have his personal flaws forgotten about so he could be all superheroey for the episode and then go back, perhaps, to flaws afterward. It shows a lot of guts on the part of the writers to not take that easy route and to have his actions reflect those flaws at a time like this, because in a whole lot of shows, we'd never see those flaws. I really respect the writers for doing that and not only with Young, but with all the characters.

[PG15]

I'm curious: did you think this before the LA got out of the gateroom when the show was airing? Were you literally/figuratively yelling at the TV that they should hurry up and vent the air because the LA are probably carrying explosives or something?

Also, Young did assume the LA were armed (mentioned in the show) and that they could get out of the Gateroom, otherwise there wouldn't have been soldiers posted around it. It seems like it was a combination of a momentary lapse of judgement due to the unexpected arrival of Telford/Rush and the skills of the LA forces - and even if he assumed they had explosives, maybe he thought it'd take them time to set it up and to get all of their forces out of the blast radius, who knows. Young made a mistake, yes, but it wasn't just random stupidity; there was an "emotional moment" involved - and yes, I know that's bad for a commander, but it's more understandable and relatable IMHO than just stupidity, especially for someone who suddenly jumped from commanding a backwater research base to a mysterious rust bucket of a spaceship that sees action (of one form or another) much more frequently.

Young's emotional undercurrent has been a part of his character flaw the whole season. This is just another manifestation of it. Frankly I'm glad TPTB are keeping him consistent.

[Kaiphantom]

Do we really have to go through this again?

He believed that the LA couldn't get out of the gateroom - a perfectly reasonable assumption.

I agree, do we really have to go through this again?

Because believing they couldn't get out of the gateroom was monumentally stupid for a military commander. You have to make the assumption that they were armed, and most likely would have carried explosives, with which they could blow open the doors.

So please stop repeating the falsehood that it was a reasonable assumption they couldn't get out; it wasn't. It was just another stupid mistake on Young's part, in the comedy of errors of his that led to the LA having the upper hand at the end of the season. Heh, the only reason they have the ship is because Young was in charge. If Jack, or Sam, or Hammond, or Landry had been in charge up there, the LA wouldn't have had a chance.

[Sami_]

It's been clear to me for quite some time now that Young is not fit to lead. Sure, he tried to atone for his mistakes after the whole coup fiasco, but he is not fit for command of the Destiny.

The second he wavered in ordering the venting of the gate room, he sealed his fate, in my eyes. It'll be a miracle if he manages to keep his command after the resolution of the incursion. After all, his indecision and misguided attempt at "saving everyone" resulted in countless deaths on our side.

For all of his talk of the "Greater good", that philosophy apparently flies out the window when he has to sacrifice one of his own best friends (or, if you want to be generous, Rush and/or Telford and Rush, as a way to atone for the attempt at Rush's life).

"Sure, for the greater good, we must be willing to sacrifice the lives of individuals for the survival of the expedition... unless he's one of my oldest friends! Because then screw that plan!"

Jack, Elizabeth, Sam, Richard (Woolsey), George (S. Hammond), Henry ("Hank" Landry) would all have known what to do: Sacrifice the life of the one for the safety of the many. In fact, many of them have already had to make that choice themselves and they made the correct one (sacrificing the one for the many).

No matter what happens, unless they manage to go back in time or find a revival machine, the blood of the many casualties on Earth's side will be partially on Young's hands.

Do we really have to go through this again?

He believed that the LA couldn't get out of the gateroom - a perfectly reasonable assumption.

They are onboard a spaceship which currently has zero strategic value, is no threat to anyone and they don't have much food or water or medical supplies - if anyone onboard Destiny or at the SGC was thinking straight they would have talked to the LA instead of attacking them, let them board Destiny peacefully taking the much needed supplies with them.

Saying Jack, Elizabeth, Sam, Woolsey, Hammond and Landry would have made the right call and always have in the past is just ridiculous. Hammond has left the gate open when weapon fire has been coming through which I believe he stated at the time he should not have done and I believe that all the others would have done the exact same thing - for all he knew a nuke (or worse) was on its way through.

[Gatefan1976]

Maybe. He did break here. But if it's he or Wray, my money is on he.

Can I ask, why would anyone even consider Wray at all? Not only has she lead a failed (and pretty pathetic) coup, she has displyed no command ability whatsoever. Let's face it, whilst she may work for the IOA, she is in HR, not exactly an area known for actually producing results. Of course however, that statement is very much my opinion based on the times I've had to deal with HR departments in my own life.

[rushy]

Maybe. He did break here. But if it's he or Wray, my money is on he.

[FallenAngelII]

Young is great. The perfect example of how imperfect humans are. Makes him so much more interesting to watch.

Yes, but if you were actually on the expedition, you wouldn't be saying that. Especially not if you're one of the people who got hurt and/or died by his decision to not immediately vent the gate room because he wanted to save one of his friends.

He's a trained soldier, he's supposed to be able make the hard decisions. It's in situations like those that Rush's philosophy of the Greater Good shines through as the only viable option. Look at what his attempt at benevolence got him.

[tomstone]

Young is great. The perfect example of how imperfect humans are. Makes him so much more interesting to watch.

I agree. Nobody is saying that they hate the character, just the decisions he made. I for one would love to see how Young has to overcome his problems and get back to command.

After all he will have to answer to all aboard why all of this had to happen and the sad truth is that it happened by making the wrong decision at the wrong time. People wont trust in his choices anymore as they used to, just as Scoot earlier asked him why he didn`t just say that killing somebody releases them from the mindwashing.

In a sidenote, that would have been much more intelligent and nervsaving then letting the people go nuts on you. My feeling is that he didn`t even know that it would work.