But What Did Chloe Mean?

[Jper]

Now to me that sounds a bit too Freudian for me.

[2nd lieutanet carol]

way to go, Captain Generalization! And you've managed to make a slam both on women and on men, that takes skill (or something else, but I;ll keep that to myself ) Maybe it's something you just happen to hate about women? And I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of guys right here on GW that manage to care about more women than just their mothers and wives.

especially if there in uniform and they pull shrapnel out of my dumb A** after i decide to walk a little too close to a guy and he steps on the wrong thing, but i respect women in general until i get to know them and they give me a reason not to.

[fwupow]

Wow! Looks like I started a firestorm. First of all, everybody's psychology is different. Some people had little or no emotional bond with their opposite sex parent during early childhood or they experienced severe emotional rejection by the opposite sex parent (i.e. spanked & yelled at for crying etc.) A common result of this is emotional gayness, in other words they focus their emotional need on the same sex instead of the opposite sex, since they believe that compassion and understanding can only come from a person of the same sex.

You need to understand that sex is irrelevant. Sex is an expression of love. Sexual desire is intertwined with emotional desire and many people pursue it as though it's the beginning and the end and the entire fulfillment of the desire, but it's like a baby sucking a pacifier instead of a bottle. No nutritional benefit is actually obtained from the pacifier even though it may feel like what's wanted.

I didn't say that, as a man, you can't care about other women, but everybody needs a primary secure emotional attachment. Why has the institution of marriage existed for thousands of years? If you believe the Bible, then the arrangement came from God. Did God arrange it for NO reason?

Many people have a secure emotional connection with their parents for, perhaps, many years of their lives and have no real need of a mate. A wife takes over the job of being a man's primary emotional provider from his mother. The fact is, that people who grew up in a secure environment with secure attachments to nurturing parents, extend outward from that to form many other good, but secondary, friendships, whereas people who become emotionally orphaned from parents need to move on to a marital relationship. Often people don't understand this until their parents die. Also, people often take for granted, things that they have never had the misfortune of being without.

Eli is the son of single mom, and he has likely had to be the "man of the house" for some years, in essence, being a substitute husband to his mother. His circumstance in life makes him want a wife. I don't think there's any question but that he wishes for Chloe to one day become his primary secure attachment. Chloe, on the other hand seems to wanna get her emotional support from whatever guy happens to be around.

It is common in society for secure people who were blessed with good, happy & emotionally supportive parents to look down on others who weren't nearly so well blessed and ridicule their "psychological disorders" & "insecurity" instead of realizing that they wouldn't be any better if they had been born into the same circumstances. We live in a demonic society that tries to hate people into being better people instead of loving them. Hate has never worked and never will work.

A son who is blessed with a secure functional attachment with his mother from birth will be emotionally heterosexual. If/when he llater loses that support, he will naturally want to replace what he has lost, by forming an intimate emotional connection with another woman--a wife. A person's sense of security comes from marriage and the fact that marriage involves solemn vows or promise to stick by someone. The institution was not born of a whim or frivolous pipe dream. It's there to provide for natural human emotional need. In our modern society, everybody is now on anti-depressants because of the failure of the family unit and the marriage arrangement. If the entirety of your emotional need can be met by casual, non-family relationships, then you are quite likely emotionally retarded/underdeveloped and/or have never known any real emotionally intimate relationships in your life. If that's how you are then be thankful because you're likely in a better condition to cope with our modern broken society full of dysfunctional failed families. Understand though, that not everyone is the same way. Some people had very close & strong emotional attachments with their opposite sex parent early in life and powerfully miss it when it's gone and hence want to find a replacement through traditional marriage.

So, the way I see it, is that Eli wants Chloe to be his wife, but Chloe probably doesn't even understand where he's coming from, so Eli is just gonna keep clinging to on-again/off-again dream that will likely end in a miserable heart-breaking fashion.

[Deevil]

Sex is an expression of love.

Sorry mate, sex and love can be very much mutually exclusive... of course, generalisations tend to cause these problems.

Why has the institution of marriage existed for thousands of years?

'Cause the precurement of property, peace, unity and wealth has always been important. Love and marriage is a relatively recent development in the history of marriage.

Eli is the son of single mom, and he has likely had to be the "man of the house" for some years, in essence, being a substitute husband to his mother.

No, he has been a son and a caretaker to his sick mother. The fact that he is a man does not make him a substitute for a husband. I really have issues with these generalisations. Not only does it suggest that a woman cannot live without a husband, it suggests that a man always has to 'man up'.

His circumstance in life makes him want a wife. I don't think there's any question but that he wishes for Chloe to one day become his primary secure attachment. Chloe, on the other hand seems to wanna get her emotional support from whatever guy happens to be around.

He doesn't appear to want a 'wife' at all. He has a crush on Chloe. Everyone has crushes. They happen, they have nothing to do with the desire to have a long standing relationship with someone. Hello, how many people think <insert celebrity> is hot and that they want to have sex with them? It has nothing to do with love, or attachment, but ti has everything to do with lust.

As for Chloe, I think like Eli you are selling her short. She is a generous soul who does get attached to people of both genders. To suggest that she solely relies on men for emotional support only supports your theory that a woman cannot function without a man, it does not speak to the fact that women can get on quite well without men being the caretakers.

It is common in society for secure people who were blessed with good, happy & emotionally supportive parents to look down on others who weren't nearly so well blessed and ridicule their "psychological disorders" & "insecurity" instead of realizing that they wouldn't be any better if they had been born into the same circumstances.

It's not as common as you think. Furthermore, just because you grew up in an emotional supportive family doesn't mean you wont suffer from any issues. That is blatently untrue.

A son who is blessed with a secure functional attachment with his mother from birth will be emotionally heterosexual.

Emotionally heterosexual, emotionally gay? Okay, the phraseology here is misguided at best and borders on the offensive.

[Sami_]

BFF set in concrete. May this new galaxy bless Eli with alien babes or at least in his dreams.

I like the way you think.

[Kaiphantom]

If it was just a crush, it would have been dead by now; crushes are crushes because they don't last. Because it's continued so far, and Eli has remained devoted, it's love. Pure, unconditional love, the kind women normally fantasize about, or will state that's what they want when they talk about what they want in a guy.

And then will go bang the hunky guy.

Chloe is a typical woman, and what she meant was simply: "You do a lot for me and I don't want to lose that, and why aren't you happy that I'm basically using as my rag?"

Chloe is the type to not realize what she has until it's gone, or witness how bad she is until it's pushed into her face. Witness how she didn't even realize how bad her friends were until she met Eli. And I find it ironic that it's Eli, not Scott, that makes her realize how bad her friends were, and how bad she was.

At any rate, gotta continue the Hollywood romance. Hot girl + hunky guy sells more T-shirts.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Kai,

If it was just a crush, it would have been dead by now; crushes are crushes because they don't last. Because it's continued so far, and Eli has remained devoted, it's love. Pure, unconditional love, the kind women normally fantasize about, or will state that's what they want when they talk about what they want in a guy.

You don't try to use emotional blackmail on the people you love. You accept them as they are. If they do not have romantic feelings you don't wait for them "come around" pretending to be their friend while secretly lusting after them. That's not love. Love requires respect for the feelings of the person for whom the emotion is felt otherwise it's a case of Person A loving themselves and wanting person B.

And then will go bang the hunky guy.

Oh, for the love of pete. What business is it of Eli's who Chloe sleeps with? If he's her friend he lets that go and doesn't obsess over it.

Chloe is a typical woman, and what she meant was simply: "You do a lot for me and I don't want to lose that, and why aren't you happy that I'm basically using as my rag?"

Could you be a bit more bitter here? "Typical woman"... please. Simply because you believe it's a character flaw to not find Eli sexually attractive but want to maintain a friendship with him doesn't make Chloe "typical". Mainly because there is not such thing as a "Typical woman" any more than there is a "Typical man". Everyone is an individual.

[Gamma626]

Here's another thing. Chloe could very well have feelings for Eli that have not yet developed. Her relationship with Scott appears to be slowly dispersing. And Eli's supposed Love interest in season 2 may spear head the fact that yes, she does care for him. This relationship is purely realistic. Chloe was driven by base needs at the start of the show. She may work it out with Scott, or things may go a different route. We'll find out.

[Kaiphantom]

You don't try to use emotional blackmail on the people you love. You accept them as they are. If they do not have romantic feelings you don't wait for them "come around" pretending to be their friend while secretly lusting after them. That's not love. Love requires respect for the feelings of the person for whom the emotion is felt otherwise it's a case of Person A loving themselves and wanting person B.

To put it bluntly, what is your point with this? Are you saying that Eli is emotionally blackmailing Chloe? If so, what is your evidence that he is doing so?

Oh, for the love of pete. What business is it of Eli's who Chloe sleeps with? If he's her friend he lets that go and doesn't obsess over it.

Again, I have to scratch my head and ask, "What's your point in saying this?" I don't see where I said that it was Eli's business at all, nor that he's been obsessive or has shown problems. So, it really seems like you're trying to insinuate things to make him look bad, for whatever reason.

Could you be a bit more bitter here? "Typical woman"... please. Simply because you believe it's a character flaw to not find Eli sexually attractive but want to maintain a friendship with him doesn't make Chloe "typical". Mainly because there is not such thing as a "Typical woman" any more than there is a "Typical man". Everyone is an individual.

Could you be a bit more naive here? Because it is fairly typical of women to friend zone a guy. Hell, it's been referred to in the show, and there are cruder urban dictionary references to it. It's a well known phenomenon that's been referenced by women in this very forum, and thus to proclaim ignorance of it is a bit disingenuous.

[EllieVee]

Could you be a bit more naive here? Because it is fairly typical of women to friend zone a guy. Hell, it's been referred to in the show, and there are cruder urban dictionary references to it. It's a well known phenomenon that's been referenced by women in this very forum, and thus to proclaim ignorance of it is a bit disingenuous.

Your argument is that because friendzoning in referenced in SGU, that some women on this forum have referenced it, and that it's in crude urban dictionaries, that it's a typical of women to do it? That's actually the argument you're going with? Seriously?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Kai,

My point is that if Eli is really Chloe's friend he shouldn't resent being, as you put it, "friendzoned". There's nothing wrong with being "friendzoned" if the man or woman for whom there are unrequited feelings genuinely likes the individual being "friendzoned" but doesn't have romantic feelings for them. To do otherwise would be to lie to a friend.

You continue to somehow imply Chloe not having romantic feelings for Eli is some sort of character flaw. It's simply not. Nor should it be construed to be. We find attractive who we find attractive. Chloe owes Eli nothing for his friendship, Eli owes Chloe nothing for her friendship. Friendship is not a quid pro quo relationship.

[Kaiphantom]

Your argument is that because friendzoning in referenced in SGU, that some women on this forum have referenced it, and that it's in crude urban dictionaries, that it's a typical of women to do it? That's actually the argument you're going with? Seriously?

Perhaps you've lived in a bubble, and thus haven't encountered it much. Or been lucky. Congrats! Suppose you'll just have to take the word of the rest of us that it happens. A lot.

My point is that if Eli is really Chloe's friend he shouldn't resent being, as you put it, "friendzoned". There's nothing wrong with being "friendzoned" if the man or woman for whom there are unrequited feelings genuinely likes the individual being "friendzoned" but doesn't have romantic feelings for them. To do otherwise would be to lie to a friend.

I never said that Eli should resent Chloe for her decisions. That would be you putting words in my mouth. All I said is what Chloe has done, is fairly typical of women.

You continue to somehow imply Chloe not having romantic feelings for Eli is some sort of character flaw. It's simply not. Nor should it be construed to be. We find attractive who we find attractive. Chloe owes Eli nothing for his friendship, Eli owes Chloe nothing for her friendship. Friendship is not a quid pro quo relationship.

And I never said Chloe's actions were a character flaw; that would be the whole "putting words in my mouth" thing again. Indeed, I've actually praised the show for being so realistic in this regard.

And you're right; friends don't owe each other anything. Two people can be friends, and do absolutely nothing for each other. Or they can be friends, where only one of them ever does anything for the other person. I'm sure all your friends are glad to know that, when the chips are down, they can count on you to reply, "Sorry, but I don't owe you anything. You're still my friend, though!"

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Kai,

You don't say it, and I'm not saying you said it, but it's heavily implied based upon the way refer to Eli and Chloe's relationship. For example:

Chloe is a typical woman, and what she meant was simply: "You do a lot for me and I don't want to lose that, and why aren't you happy that I'm basically using as my rag?"

As to your next point:

And you're right; friends don't owe each other anything. Two people can be friends, and do absolutely nothing for each other. Or they can be friends, where only one of them ever does anything for the other person. I'm sure all your friends are glad to know that, when the chips are down, they can count on you to reply, "Sorry, but I don't owe you anything. You're still my friend, though!"

Yup. Now if you get nothing out of the friendship perhaps it's time to stop having a relationship with that individual. However, if Eli is expecting romantic feelings to be reciprocated when they aren't Eli is in the wrong here. Chloe is right.

[EllieVee]

Perhaps you've lived in a bubble, and thus haven't encountered it much. Or been lucky. Congrats! Suppose you'll just have to take the word of the rest of us that it happens. A lot.

Consider this: there is no such thing as a typical woman. Generalisations make the world fall over.

[carmencatalina]

Consider this: there is no such thing as a typical woman. Generalisations make the world fall over.

Green for you.